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RE: Non Sexual D/s: For the Slaves/Submissive Who Work... - 2/7/2008 4:35:17 PM   
charlotte12


Posts: 471
Joined: 5/9/2006
Status: offline 		I have to agree with LA.  If you can't relax and not worry about what you say with your partner then when can you?

Have you talked to him about how you feel you need to tell little white lies to help maintain your relationship?  I have met people who see it both ways, some believe the "what you don't know can't hurt you" philosophy but others (including myself) feel that complete honesty avoids more heartache than it causes. 

Just my two cents. 


_____________________________

Stephan's slaveling

"I'm not superior, I'm just more important." Master (Stephann)

"When you are your freest self, who are you?" Jack Rinella

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Non Sexual D/s: For the Slaves/Submissive Who Work... - 2/7/2008 4:37:11 PM   
lronitulstahp


Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

  
Are there any circumstances under which you would lie to your beloved (or even hired) slave/sub/master/dom/switch, that had nothing to do with creating an ambiance for a scene but everything to do with maintaining the relationship?       
  i'd probably think of maintaining the relationship as much more important than creating ambience for a scene.  So, that being said...if i had to be dishonest to keep a partner happy...i'd always feel i was dealing unfairly with Him.  The little things add up, and make one feel more comfortable or less apt to notice the bigger lies...not for all, but for many, i think there would be a slippery slope.  Taken...did you ever think maybe He asks you your opinion because he WANTS an honest one? He might want to consider your feelings as a means of maintaining the relationship.

(in reply to TracyTaken)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Non Sexual D/s: For the Slaves/Submissive Who Work... - 2/7/2008 4:39:51 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Are there any circumstances under which you would lie to your beloved (or even hired) slave/sub/master/dom/switch, that had nothing to do with creating an ambiance for a scene but everything to do with maintaining the relationship?

To maintain the relationship? No fucking way.

Not even to 'spare feelings' would I lie to a partner.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to TracyTaken)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Non Sexual D/s: For the Slaves/Submissive Who Work... - 2/7/2008 4:56:25 PM   
TracyTaken


Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline
quote:

So you choose to screen and pick and wind your words with the person you've been with for 30 years, then you come online to try and find other people who do the same and support you in it so you'll feel relieved and not so all alone?


No, I did it to engage people who do not pretend to practice perfect honesty regardless of the impact.  Obviously, that's not you.  So I'll count you among those who would say "I never tell a lie." 

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Non Sexual D/s: For the Slaves/Submissive Who Work... - 2/7/2008 5:11:11 PM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Most white lies should be no problem, however every once in awhile they can snow ball into avalanche.   What I don't like, is finding out the truth about something after the fact.   Where I ask the other person why they did not tell me the truth, hearing them explain because it was not a big deal to begin with.  Ummm.. kind of funny somebody would lie over something that was not a big deal.  Just makes me question how much I actually know the real person, or how much they actually trust me.  Mind you the lies might be small, but come on here.   Basically, it kind of makes me feel a little shitty that somebody could not be upfront about me.  

Case in point about windows, I think it would make me feel a little crappy that I made a choice without taking into account how somebody else truely felt about it.  It's one thing to make a choice knowing and another not knowing it.   Because I might not have been so stuck on my choice, at times I simply pick one of a couple of choices.  Really any of my choices would be great.   Window Frame A, B, C or D.  I could have lived with but when with window frame C for the hell of it, because it was priced and the quality was somewhere in the middle.  Perhaps it was the one on sale that week too.   

Anyways, I really don't enjoy white lies very much either. 

Some of you already know, that I've started seeing somebody in the real time now.  Things are clicking extremely well.  We both are very blunt an honest about a lot of things with one another.  Small things.  Actually we both laugh about people making games out of small simple things.  Basically, when there's no reason to lie anyways.  The truth is always more fun and facisnating compared to games.  I can honestly say, I value the honestly over the smallest of things.  Sure, things like birthday presents or gifts, those things should be kept secret secret.  Not a problem with that.

Actually what is funny, is that here and I have expressed thoughts that perhaps many people might think about, but not actually share until the timing was so called "the right" time to share it.  She actually expressed a thought she was having, and as it turns out I was having the same thoughts.  Whew... we both laughed about it.  How some people would get all squicked out at sharing these thoughts just because it was not the right now.   It's one thing to actually do what one thinks, there is something called reality.  However, we both are on the same page in terms of how we think and feel about things.   Would not be this way, if we both played all shy and quiet about what's on our minds.

Basically, I giving her the freedom to simply be herself fully.  I really does not threaten my DOM personality one bit.  Hell, I actually don't sit there trying too much to think about my label.  However, one thing I have learned over the years, that allowing somebody to be themselves actually is a key to having a good relationship.   Besides, how else can I make good decisions and take responsibility for things without knowing the truth.  This is my life perspective, and yes my perspective of being a DOM.  I hate to talk in terms of labels at times.   These issues have more to do with insecurity and fears compared to being Dom, sub, slave or switch.   One thing is for certain, allowing somebody to express themselves without judgement or fear, it helps build trust and respect.  Two things that are important in any relationship including D/s relationships.

I think it's a bit of a stereotype that us DOMs are wacked out control freaks, that can't handle or deal with the truth.  When somebody is upfront with me, it reminds me that this person actually respects and trusts me.  That this person is sharing a deeper part of themselves with me.  I will listen and take things into account and figure out how to deal with it.  Perhaps, I'm the one with an issue or I'm the one with the problem.  I'm human and I have my own flaws.  Us Dom types are not flawless, not perfect, not all knowing powerful creatures.   One of the keys to being more knowing, is to hear the truth from other people though.  The more you know, the better you can manage day to day life.   The more you can manage yourself and other people around you.

If somebody really could give a fuck less about a decision, and it's all up to me.  I will make that decision without their input.  However, if they deny me of the truth, and I make a decision that was not the best one to make at the time.  I tend to get a little upset about it.  Makes me want to spank their ass with a crop or send them off to a corner!  Bad Bad Bad Girl!   Everybody has this thing about OBEY Master as number one rule.  My top #1 rule is be honest and communicate with me.  This applies to all relationships I have.  If I'm in a D/s or M/s relationship.  Obey Master is Number 1, and Number 2 rule is Honesty and communication.  If you break rule 2 you are breaking rule 1.  


(in reply to TracyTaken)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Non Sexual D/s: For the Slaves/Submissive Who Work... - 2/7/2008 5:41:51 PM   
TracyTaken


Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Case in point about windows, I think it would make me feel a little crappy that I made a choice without taking into account how somebody else truely felt about it.


It was a long, stessful day/week (weeks actually).  I came close to meltdown when I realized the window wasn't going to happen anytime soon.  His idea: 

Let's hold off and get what we really want (restoring an old house is an exercise in torture; and you'd have to have tried it to understand that - and it vastly limits what kind of windows will work.  It also vastly increases the value of the house).  Let the tile guys tile away and we'll put the window in later.

My thought(s):  I will lose my mind soon.  I want my bathroom back, complete with window - I DO NOT care what kind of window or what it is made of.  And the tile guys won't guarantee their work if they can't seal the tile up to the window.

We *both* had very valid points.  I bowed to his.

(in reply to Owner4SexSlave)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Non Sexual D/s: For the Slaves/Submissive Who Work... - 2/7/2008 6:25:40 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TracyTaken
No, I did it to engage people who do not pretend to practice perfect honesty regardless of the impact.  Obviously, that's not you.  So I'll count you among those who would say "I never tell a lie." 


I never said that.  I'm a fabulous liar.  I lie my pants off, specially in public company.  Whether it's by omission or outright falsehoods. 

Which is part of why it's so important for me that I never need to or would do that with my partner.

You seem really intent on proving people are liars or putting them down for acting "subblier than thou" and trying to find comfort in people who admit faults.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 2/7/2008 6:29:06 PM >

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to TracyTaken)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Non Sexual D/s: For the Slaves/Submissive Who Work... - 2/7/2008 6:33:17 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		No, I am just an upfront and blunt person. I am the type that tells all because the guilt of omitting one thing would eat me up. I tell Master everything whether he wants to hear it or not. I wouldn't say I am the type that never tells a lie but I just can't do it to Master. Did that in the past to other Dominants and it came back to bite me in the ass. I'm not perfect, just learned my lesson and go about things in a different way now. 

< Message edited by sweetnurseBBW -- 2/7/2008 6:35:48 PM >

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Non Sexual D/s: For the Slaves/Submissive Who Work... - 2/7/2008 6:46:19 PM   
TracyTaken


Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline
quote:


You seem really intent on proving people are liars or putting them down for acting "subblier than thou" and trying to find comfort in people who admit faults.


One thing at a time.  I admit that I take particular issue with you, after the greeting you gave me, then the post on running nude through the mall, and the post on how important it is to be polite.  It was a funny thing to watch.

I think people lie -I'd have to be mentally deficient to believe anything else.  The thread on whether anyone would lie about having an orgasm was pretty funny.  No one would every lie about that, or even tell any lie by omission to their Doms for any reason or .... RFL.  I'm no more super sub than I am super human, and I've posted as much, repeatedly.  I am (by the posted norms of this group) a really poor submissive.  And I've said so openly on this group too.

I admit I find comfort in people who are honest (not like I'm going to find a great many on an online forum - I know).  So sue me. 

You seem really intent on seeing to it that I tow the line.  Is that how you see yourself? 

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Non Sexual D/s: For the Slaves/Submissive Who Work... - 2/7/2008 6:48:32 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TracyTaken

quote:

ORIGINAL: nwcutie102

i don't consider those bad lies..... little white ones because you do not want to hurt him and want to PLEASE


Thanks.  A recent thread on whether women would lie about orgasm might lead to one to believe that the majority of submissives could be saints (literally).  I hoped for responses from submissves who were not totally convinced of their own perfection ... which  is the polar opposite of humility.  What a strange place CM is.  LOL. 



Because some don't think they way you do they are being deceptive? Yeah, good luck with that. Some of us learned that if you are honest then the rewards are greater. I am not perfect but as I said before I learned from past experiences that me being deceptive only hurts me. So good luck with " I am the only telling the truth" theory.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to TracyTaken)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Non Sexual D/s: For the Slaves/Submissive Who Work... - 2/7/2008 7:33:24 PM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		Not to beat a dead horse with the window topic, it's clearly only an example, not the focus of your questions... but ... if your honest truth was
quote:

"I want my bathroom back, complete with window - I DO NOT care what kind of window or what it is made of.  And the tile guys won't guarantee their work if they can't seal the tile up to the window"... 
would that have left Him less happy with His choice for the windows?  Probably not..  He'd probably appreciate the fact that you don't care..  and you're practical enough to just go with whatever works in the timelines Y/you need.

i don't see why choosing a less-truth is preferable to a full-truth , especially when the real truth wouldn't have any backlash at all.

i do understand the point about sometimes using a white lie to address something that the correct info won't fix. Like what purpose does it serve to tell someone that haircut looks horridly too short, but it'll look good in a week growing out.. when you can say it looks fine, and wait the week to make that more fully "true". 

BUT!  i'd even qualify that more by taking into account, is the person liable to feel self conscious and ruin their wedding day over it, or is it someone who can accept your input and carry on without harm?  i would opt for not striking blows at load-bearing walls.

i cannot help but feel you've set up a situation where over 30 years, you've trained the Dom to believe you like pink, and He'll continue to buy pink thinking it's your fav color, because you've never said different.  What a shame if all along, He'd have loved you in blue, and never got the chance to see it, because you fed Him the wrong data. A pattern of even small deceits is a two-loose deal.

(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Non Sexual D/s: For the Slaves/Submissive Who Work... - 2/7/2008 7:33:35 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		People lie all of the time.. constantly.  They're often white lies, like the ones you made, which are meant to make things easier.  Your submissive personality shows in that you're willing to submit to unpleasantness.  Not just that you're willing to submit to the Dom, but you're sort of a doormat to stress; you avoid things just to make things easier in the moment.

First of all, it's very common.  While I would suggest you work on it, it's not like you're unique in it by any means.

Second of all, you should learn to speak up despite unpleasantness with someone you feel that could listen without hurting you or making things difficult.  Someone you don't worry about disappointing.  That'd be the easiest way to start.

(in reply to TracyTaken)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Non Sexual D/s: For the Slaves/Submissive Who Work... - 2/8/2008 1:01:16 PM   
CaraCaeth


Posts: 24
Joined: 11/4/2007
Status: offline 		I don’t think the types of things you’re talking about is helping to maintain your relationship.  It sounds more to me all it’s doing is making your Master happy while causing you to feel resentment.  Obviously, if you are in a M/s relationship, there are going to be things He will tell you to do that you may not like or disagree with.  But if He doesn’t know how you really feel, how can He really make you happy?  my Master and i have an agreement; if i disagree with something, i may respectfully (and yes, sometimes i do have problems with that part but i’m working on it, lol) voice my opinion.  He will take what i’ve said into consideration.  Ultimately, the decision is still His to make, but if i have a valid reason (other than just whining) to object to something, He is very good about taking my feelings and opinions into consideration before He makes his decision.  By my being honest with Him about how i really feel, it helps to outline to Him what boundaries there are between what does or does not make me happy.  Of course, the converse it true too; if i don’t like something and i tell Him about it, He may just decide to use it as a punishment for me. 
     Even more in BDSM than in a vanilla relationship, trust is an essential element to a lasting relationship.  If He can’t trust you to tell Him your feelings - or even worse, if you don’t trust in Him enough to be able to share your feelings with Him - you are not doing your relationship any favors.

_____________________________

property of Master Brenin
There can be a true grandeur in any degree of submissiveness, because it springs from loyalty to the laws and to an oath, and not from baseness of soul. - Simone Weil (1910-1943, French Philosopher, Mystic)

(in reply to TracyTaken)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Non Sexual D/s: For the Slaves/Submissive Who Work... - 2/8/2008 1:26:28 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CaraCaeth
Even more in BDSM than in a vanilla relationship, trust is an essential element to a lasting relationship. 

No, it's not.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to CaraCaeth)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Non Sexual D/s: For the Slaves/Submissive Who Work... - 2/8/2008 3:25:54 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		If I lied to him and told him I was capable of things I wasn't, and that I thought his idea was great when I didn't, he would have a fit and a half and rightfully.

He doesn't know everything and he is the first person to admit it. So about the window what would have done was, "okay if you're sure, but I'm worried about how I can open it for air and not have some weirdo looking in at me, have you considered that problem?".

He needs my feedback to help him always make good decisions. A lot of times he has already thought of the problem and might say, "Yes, I thought about that and have ordered a screen that prevents looking in" or whatever. And if it was something that he hadn't thought about he would say "hmmm, let me think about that a bit more".

But lie to him to bolster his ego? He doesn't need that. And he wouldn't want to hear that the dog was already fully trained and then come home to wet spots on the rug. Or to me getting upset when I saw someone spying on me in the shower and then telling him that it was his fault for buying the window.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 35
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