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RE: Play Rape - 9/14/2005 6:10:48 PM   
BigEyes


Posts: 155
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you everyone for replying. I am still of the mind that the word 'play' and the use of it in play rape in bdsm ultimately means consent, even if the consent is a silent consent that is more of an understanding. Actual rape is not about sex - it's about power. I find it hard to believe that play rape creates the same horrors of rape. Maybe it is my own experiences clouding my judgement. And I have never tried play rape. But I can't see how it can be pleasurable and still use the word 'rape'.

Big Eyes

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Play Rape - 9/14/2005 6:41:03 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigEyes

Thank you everyone for replying. I am still of the mind that the word 'play' and the use of it in play rape in bdsm ultimately means consent, even if the consent is a silent consent that is more of an understanding. Actual rape is not about sex - it's about power. I find it hard to believe that play rape creates the same horrors of rape. Maybe it is my own experiences clouding my judgement. And I have never tried play rape. But I can't see how it can be pleasurable and still use the word 'rape'.

Big Eyes


Same is true about "torture" and we still use that word too. Words are context sensitive. Should a colleague tell me he found an artifact, I'd have to remember if he was in the stat department or the anthro department before I would know whether to offer condolences or congratulations.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to BigEyes)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Play Rape - 9/14/2005 6:55:40 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
Same is true about "torture" and we still use that word too. Words are context sensitive. Should a colleague tell me he found an artifact, I'd have to remember if he was in the stat department or the anthro department before I would know whether to offer condolences or congratulations.

ROFL perfect analogy.

On a serious note- sometimes rape play is NOT supposed to be pleasurable, it's supposed to be primal, painful, forced, NOT for the pleasure of the sub, but just because the dom wants to take it, period.

I like to describe humiliation as a burning- it is horrible awful hateful when it occurs, but afterwards it just leaves the warm fabulous afterglow. Rape play, or any sort of intense play, can be like that too. You can hate the actual thing itself, and still love it after the fact.

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Play Rape - 9/27/2005 9:20:05 PM   
HarleyGirl


Posts: 5
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline 		This is one of my biggest fantasies. I think it stems from wanting a man to desire me so much that he is willing to take what he wants. As a person that was raped and almost killed, I have a hard time with the fact that I want to role play it. Perhaps I want to role play it because I want the outcome to be different and the motives to be different and for it to happen on my terms.


(in reply to BigEyes)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Play Rape - 9/27/2005 11:50:14 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HarleyGirl

This is one of my biggest fantasies. I think it stems from wanting a man to desire me so much that he is willing to take what he wants. As a person that was raped and almost killed, I have a hard time with the fact that I want to role play it. Perhaps I want to role play it because I want the outcome to be different and the motives to be different and for it to happen on my terms.


This is what I've found with a number of my partners who have rape fantasies after a real rape. Knowing you can stop things is a very powerful feeling. In one case, my partner safeworded several times during the scenes we did. I knew it might happen and was fine with it. Later, she told me the being able to stop the scene was more of a turn on than the "rape" itself. [grin: my ego survived]

Another one said something on the order of: "It's kinda keen having a 'rapist' who has taken a bath and brushed his teeth recently."

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to HarleyGirl)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Play Rape - 9/28/2005 7:09:55 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

As a person that was raped and almost killed, I have a hard time with the fact that I want to role play it. Perhaps I want to role play it because I want the outcome to be different and the motives to be different and for it to happen on my terms.


I have been avoiding this thread because I don't want to become known as the voice of gloom and doom on this topic. I have posted more than a few times on this subject with mixed results.

Let me say first that I do understand this is a somewhat popular and valid type of play and that you are certainly not alone in your fantasy. It is actually a common fantasy of women who have been raped, for the reasons you suggested and many more.

What I do want to stress though is that it is a slippery slope for people like yourself who have had the unfortunate experience of having this be an issue for you. I know that there are plenty of times that such a scenario can come off with no ill consequences...but I do want to make you aware that there are also times that this could open a huge can of worms for you.

I have been on both sides of this fence, having been a victim of a violent and devastating rape....and having tried the play rape scenario. I thought it would somehow "fix" some things that were still issues....as it turned out it "broke' things to the point that I had to go all the way back to square one. I must say that for me it was not an experience that was helpful and will definitely not be an experience I will repeat.

Some of the factors that will influence the outcome are how you dealt with the initial assault, have you had adequate counseling and where are you emotionally with the issue now. Intense communication with your partner is of utmost importance.

I am not trying to discourage you from fulfilling your fantasies, only to caution you as to the other possible outcomes. The mind is a very odd thing and sometimes much more fragile than we think. Be informed of all of the possible risks of such play, communicate....then make your decisions from there. Also, have a solid plan in place to deal with any negative consequences that may result.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to HarleyGirl)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Play Rape - 9/28/2005 8:58:53 PM   
HarleyGirl


Posts: 5
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline 		Your post is great and perhaps 10 years ago I would say that there might be some lingering pitfalls for me, but time has healed me well. I have always been a person that subscibes to the deal with it and "Get over it" theory. Yes, I grieve and I cry over difficult situations, but have never let anything rule me that I didn't want to rule me. That asshole was never going to get my spirit.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Play Rape - 9/28/2005 9:07:34 PM   
HarleyGirl


Posts: 5
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline 		You've hit the nail on the head. It is nice to find men that are willing to deal with these issues and possibly undo some of the damage done by the sickos in this world. In the other world that I am shifting away from there are very few men that have the sensitivity and yet the strength to deal with such things. Egos are easily damaged in that world by a woman that is both intelligent and is self confident. I've read some of your posts and I don't think you have that problem.

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Play Rape - 9/28/2005 9:15:15 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HarleyGirl

Egos are easily damaged in that world by a woman that is both intelligent and is self confident. I've read some of your posts and I don't think you have that problem.


I prefer women who are intelligent and self confident. They are treasures that one does not "find"; they must be "earned." That is what makes them so amazing.

Early in the relationship, Libby told me she couldn't submit to a man unless he was smarter than she. I've kept her fooled for 12 years now. [grin]


_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to HarleyGirl)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Play Rape - 9/29/2005 6:59:41 PM   
BigEyes


Posts: 155
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline 		For me, I know that at this moment play rape is not an option. And I feel stronger for knowing this and knowing that I will not be walked over. Perhaps in the future it will become an issue that I can try out with someone I trust, but being in a place that wont allow me to see the bigger picture it wont happen yet. We shall see!

It is a very emotive subject, and one that I am not very sure on. It's hard to work through an idea that is the ultimate betrayal and disgusting, and yet erotic.

I still feel that play rape is a contradiction in terms I think. What a mess.

Big Eyes

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Play Rape - 10/2/2005 5:11:11 PM   
wantinaSireorSir


Posts: 29
Joined: 8/12/2005
Status: offline 		Yes there is a thing as play rape. It is where 2 people have agreed to only go so far. But in order to do the play rape you have to have complete trust in a person first.

WantinaSireorSir

(in reply to BigEyes)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Play Rape - 10/3/2005 8:28:34 PM   
comesoncommand


Posts: 78
Joined: 5/19/2005
Status: offline 		JohnWarren- LOL! i LOVE the analogy to paintball...how true


my Master and i were just discussing play rape (yes, that phrase can sound a bit odd) the other night. He pointed out: what is the difference between ravaging and rape? The intent...the feeling behind it. W/we both agreed that the majority of women want to be ravaged, and i think that is why many, many woman have rape fantasies.

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Play Rape - 10/3/2005 9:11:13 PM   
Aquariansub


Posts: 56
Joined: 8/16/2005
Status: offline 		Thats it...want to be ravaged!!! I have had a bit of a fantasy with rape scenes but could never understand why as if I knew it was going to happen then how could it be successfull?....then why on earth would I have a fantasy with rape...but its not so much the "rape" as being ravaged... thankyou :-)

(in reply to comesoncommand)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Play Rape - 10/4/2005 12:09:48 AM   
subversiveone


Posts: 332
Joined: 4/20/2005
From: Daddy's Lap
Status: offline 		Not to beat a dead horse but yes, BigEyes, it's an oxymoron of sorts. The rape part of it is only as powerful as you define it internally. If you feel that playing at something means it has to be pleasurable, nonserious, flip or simple than you will live by that definition...For you, rape could be too emotionally charged to broach. When you stated it's about power you said it all. So, assuming we can negotiate power exchange, can you perhaps allow yourself to feel fear or imply it in a scene?

_____________________________

[img]http://www.sloganizer.net/en/style4,de-spc-de-spc-dee.png[/img]

(in reply to BigEyes)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Play Rape - 10/4/2005 2:35:57 AM   
Soulhuntre


Posts: 223
Joined: 9/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigEyes
Is it me, or is this a contradiction in terms?


For many it is - I would wager that for the vast majority it is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigEyes
Bdsm play is all about consensual sex


It is worth noting that BDSM is not "all about" consensual sex for many people. Even if you tack the word "play" on as in "BDSM play" the focus is not always on sex. For some peopel BDSM and BDSM play are about power.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigEyes
Am I being stupid or is there actually no such thing as play rape?


It depends on how you think of and deine consent. Certainl from a legal perspective some rape scenes would actually be rape. For instance in many consensual non-consent scenes the concept thwat "no means no" is tossed aside and the submissives moment to moment consent or the withdrawal therof is not a factor. Neither the law nor many people consider this valid - they feel that the MOMENT someone withdraws consent that all activity must stop or it becomes rape. There is no room in that worldview for "meta" consent or prior consent.


(in reply to BigEyes)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Play Rape - 10/5/2005 7:39:58 AM   
comesoncommand


Posts: 78
Joined: 5/19/2005
Status: offline 		i'm glad the post helped *smile*. i shared with my Master that His words were helping other subs *warm smile*.

(in reply to Aquariansub)
Profile   Post #: 36
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