RE: Accidental Over doses (Full Version)

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MadameDahlia -> RE: Accidental Over doses (2/8/2008 10:21:21 PM)

A Professor at the school I am attending brought this matter up in class the other day. He does like to wander off on tangents. He said that he didn't think that he was picking up the prescriptions at the same pharmacy. If you have all of your prescriptions going to one pharmacy they usually spot potential conflicts with medication. He also said that he wasn't even sure that he was going to the same doctor for all of the prescriptions. When you've been prescribed something to help you sleep... and something to deal with depression... the drugs are usually changed until you and your doctor find the right choice. You don't end up with a handful of each. That's just looking for trouble. Whether or not that's the case... the world may never know.

And quite frankly... I don't give a damn.

I hate to be so blunt or sound so unfeeling. But I'm fairly sick and tired of non-stop celeb coverage in local and national news. I don't give a rat's arse that lunatic Britney's been taken off to LaLa Land or that she's an unfit parent. It's none of my business. Not my concern.

And the courts, doctors and officers should stop giving celebrities slaps on the wrist for things that normal people wouldn't get away with. Real news. Real people. Less of this glitzy shit, please.



Rayne58 -> RE: Accidental Over doses (2/8/2008 11:06:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadameDahlia

A Professor at the school I am attending brought this matter up in class the other day. He does like to wander off on tangents. He said that he didn't think that he was picking up the prescriptions at the same pharmacy. If you have all of your prescriptions going to one pharmacy they usually spot potential conflicts with medication. He also said that he wasn't even sure that he was going to the same doctor for all of the prescriptions. When you've been prescribed something to help you sleep... and something to deal with depression... the drugs are usually changed until you and your doctor find the right choice. You don't end up with a handful of each. That's just looking for trouble. Whether or not that's the case... the world may never know.

And quite frankly... I don't give a damn.

I hate to be so blunt or sound so unfeeling. But I'm fairly sick and tired of non-stop celeb coverage in local and national news. I don't give a rat's arse that lunatic Britney's been taken off to LaLa Land or that she's an unfit parent. It's none of my business. Not my concern.

And the courts, doctors and officers should stop giving celebrities slaps on the wrist for things that normal people wouldn't get away with. Real news. Real people. Less of this glitzy shit, please.



As I type the lead news item on Channel 7 news here in Sydney is Heath Ledger's funeral in Perth.  Did nothing else of note happen in the world today?  Sure it's sad, but surely not that newsworthy - maybe have it after the second ad break [8|]

Slightly off topic, it also bugs me when the opening news item is about some sporting event [sm=sleepy.gif]



Hippiekinkster -> RE: Accidental Over doses (2/8/2008 11:21:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

Some people idolize their doctors to the point of doing whatever their doctors tell them to do.  Doctors (and lawyers) seem to have an intimidation factor where people will do anything they're told to do simply because, "My doctor told me to!" 

Some people go to multiple doctors who are all prescribing pills for different things and aren't communicating with each other on what they're prescribing, and that's a recipe for trouble.  In other words, Dr. A could be prescribing pills that could have a negative counter-effect on the pills that Dr. B is prescribing, or they could be doubling the dose of a medication if both are prescibing it.  But if the patient, either intentionally or unintentionally, doesn't tell Dr. A what Dr. B is prescribing, and vice versa, then it could cause some serious problems.

Some people present a well-educated, well-versed face to the world, but are really dealing with psychological problems, such as hypochondria, addictive personalities, Munchausen's (hurting oneself or making oneself ill to justify seeking out medical attention because they crave attention of any kind), even suicidal tendencies. 



This is so absolutely true. Someone who is very dear to me had someone leave him to return to her previous, and it triggered some very traumatic early childhood memories. As a consequence he became severely depressed, to the point of suicidal ideation. But to look at him, one would never know the inner turmoil. From the outside, it would appear that this person is doing quite well.

I agree that people need to be involved in their treatments, and learn a little about the conditions they suffer, but someone who is planning for his or her estate's distribution is in no condition to make rational, informed choices.

Mr. Ledger had access to some of the best healthcare in the world, and it didn't save him. There are millions in this country suffering chronic pain, psychological distress, sleep problems, and so forth, who simply cannot obtain relief because of this insane for-profit healthcare system. This could easily become a rant, so I'll cut it short.



MissMorrigan -> RE: Accidental Over doses (2/9/2008 1:42:59 AM)

Lady Hathor, accidental overdoses are comment and also understandable given that people re-medicate while under the influence. This doesn't make them stupid, it makes them fallible, as we all are.

Many years ago I had to undergo an operation to have my wisdom teeth removed. The surgery itself was fine, went without a hitch. Coming out of the anaesthetic was another matter entirely, I reacted badly, so severe infact that it affected my central nervous system. It also didn't help that I had an asthma attack during the recovery period. The results were that I was temporarily left with impaired speech (I spoked with a heavy slur, as if chronically drunk), incapable of walking (legs shook too much to walk on) and crippling headaches, along with memory loss. The memory loss remained undiagnosed until I had, wait for it, an accidental overdose of the heavy pain medication I was prescribed. I had no concept of time. The headaches were relentless and to the point I would wet myself b/c they were that bad. I used the medication I was told to take. The problem was, frequency of doses. To me, I was having one four times a day. In my warped reality, it was eight times that amount.

To my family, that were checking in on me frequently I was just resting... they had no idea I was over-medicating. The only sign that I had been was when they called in to check on me and noticed I wasn't breathing properly. They called an ambulance. Had they not called in I would have died. Only during the tests (including neurological ones) did the consultants realise my memory had been impaired - along with the full extent of my condition. Eighteen months later, I learned to walk/talk again properly and the headaches gradually cleared up. From the day I was taken to hospital I never took another pain medication. The only medication I will touch these days are for my asthma (ventolin/Flixatide).

It's easy to look at others' lives and make a snap judgement, sometimes we're incredulous that such things happen, but they do and often. Prior to the above incident I was very anti-drugs, I remain that way today.

The problem, as I see it, is that instead of getting to the root cause of a condition, it's easier to treat the symptoms. During the course of my former profession I came across a lady that was on - wait for it - a cocktail of ELEVEN medications for anxiety/behavioural/sleep disorders. She spent her life zoned out, not surprisingly. It's all to easy to criticise those that are prescribed the cocktails they are, but ultimately, who gains in this, it's not the patient, th at's for sure.



winterlight -> RE: Accidental Over doses (2/9/2008 1:54:08 AM)

common sense isn't common any more and people always think it won't happen to them!
I guess some are desperate for some sleep or high or whatever they get out of it. We all have some/one addiction..



SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: Accidental Over doses (2/9/2008 3:49:03 AM)

many think if its from a dr, its ok.  i had a dear friend who thought that, and even though we all told her she was too stoned from the muscle relaxers and pain med to drive, she continued to do it.  it ended with her in a head on crash-killing a mom and injuring the moms 2 children-and my friend was left brain damaged, but still alive.

if she ever gets her mind back, she will be tried for vehicular manslaughter.  she became so angry and bitter and mean, after a year of trying to stay close to her and help her in her recovery, i gave up.

im sorry that heath ledger died, but at least he only took him self out.

one more reason, i stick to herbal therapy.[:)]



camille65 -> RE: Accidental Over doses (2/9/2008 5:44:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan
<snipped>

I had no concept of time. The headaches were relentless and to the point I would wet myself b/c they were that bad. I used the medication I was told to take. The problem was, frequency of doses. To me, I was having one four times a day. In my warped reality, it was eight times that amount.

 Bingo. I had a very very rough time about 2 years ago. I would not just lose track of hours, but of days. The confusion got so bad that I could not track my medication and I ended up first taking too much too often, then the reverse. I went into convulsions from morphine withdrawl.It can happen, it does happen. I now have safeguards in place to make sure it never happens to me again to that extent but I still have times when no matter how hard I try I can't remember if I just took my meds or not.I have a spreadsheet, pill containers, post it notes, an alarm on my cell phone and on my laptop. When the cognitive thinking is so shot it becomes impossible to finish a thought much less remember fragments of thoughts five minutes later. MM I am so glad you posted your story because I always feel like some sort of moronic freak.



LadyHathor -> RE: Accidental Over doses (2/9/2008 5:54:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHathor

Ok, I don't get it--how an intelligent, well versed, educated person can  (A) allow a Dr to prescribe tons of crap and (B) take tons of crap with all the media about how mixing drugs/meds is lethal--
 
Can anyone explain this?


I presume you're referring to the Heath Ledger situation.

He had very valid reasons for having prescribed each of those drugs...whether for sleep or depression...etc.

He just did something remarkably stupid...he took them all at once...and in quantities that individually, were exceptional amounts.

Combined, they were killers.

The doctors are not at fault, any more than Chrysler was or is because someone killed someone with their vehicle.

(Occasionally...we all need to take just a smidge of responsability for our own actions....not everyone's a victim in life).

However...if you choose to be....well....


Actually I am referring to a myriad of these, famous and not and IMHO, I DO hold the medical profession at fault---there is not enough control and too much greed--not enough collaborative care and too much " take a pill--next!" 
 
After all what do you call someone who graduates last in medical school?
 
 
 
Dr.



samboct -> RE: Accidental Over doses (2/9/2008 9:09:57 AM)

Let me clear up one misconception out there- be careful with the over the counter pain killers.  Earlier in this thread somebody said they'd be careful with antidepressants but would be less concerned about Tylenol.  Actually, I suspect it should be the other way around.  Non steroidal anti inflammatories (NSAIDs) can often compromise liver function.  If your livers devoted to clearing up NSAIDs then it doesn't have enough left over to deal with other toxins such as alcohol.  Since different people have different livers, the amounts of NSAIDs that one person can get away with can be quite distinct than another.  Long term Tylenol use (acetominophen) is generally more problematic than aspirin.  In a few years, personalized medicine is going to be able to answer a lot of these toxicology questions more accurately but for now, do be careful with even the OTC meds.  By the way- I suspect that a half bottle of aspirin will take you out- but it's not necessarily pleasant(no, you don't bleed out- pretty sure that your liver and kidneys shut down, but I'm rusty on this stuff.)

Sam



MissMorrigan -> RE: Accidental Over doses (2/9/2008 12:32:40 PM)

Camille, it really saddens me that you have felt this way about yourself and can understand exactly such thoughts/feelings were generated. It's too easy to have knee-jerk reactions and denounce others for seemingly 'stupid' behaviour. But then, those 'onlookers' aren't privy to a great deal of information which has been omitted.

In my case, what was scandalous is that due to an already overstretched NHS I was released from hospital within seven hours of my surgery. During my recovery from the complications of the surgery I wasn't capable of making any kind of formulated decision for upto a year, I knew to drink water, urinate, sleep and eat when it was put in front of me. Cognitive awareness was greatly diminished and once I began that recovery I inwardly screamed at the helplessness I felt b/c I  had always been a high achiever, quick thinker, independent and very active.

Nowadays, due to the complications of that surgery and not to over-medicating, I have a little difficulty, and thankfully it is very minor - hence my often seemingly abstract way of thinking at times b/c my thought patterns now 'bounce around' like a ball on a squash court. I know exactly what it is I want to say, but then have difficulty articulating it.

I'm glad you have found a safety system that works for you, Camille. Stay safe x

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65
MM I am so glad you posted your story because I always feel like some sort of moronic freak.



wkdshadow -> RE: Accidental Over doses (2/9/2008 1:43:53 PM)

Brain chemistry (and really biochemistry in general) is unique to each individual. What'll kill one person won't kill another. Liver enzymes used to proccess the chemicals exist in different proportions based on genetics, diet, and enviornmental variables.

And, most importantly, the general public *isn't'* educated on the matter of pharmacology. When I say Dalmane(brand name), what comes to mind? Most likely you draw a blank. What about flurazepam(the actual chemical in Dalmane)? You may notice the "am" suffix which hints it's a benzodiazepine, but you still probably draw a blank. Can you tell me off the top of your head what flumazenil is used for, and how much should be administered? What do you know about serotonin syndrome or MAO interaction with food, and why MAOIs are a generally a "last resort"? If you've ever been prescribed an SSRI, and you don't know anything about serotonin syndrome or MAOI treatment, you're not as educated on the matter as you think you are, and I suggest reading.

Willfull ignorance is what's described in the original poster's quesion... People blindly (and thus stupidly) trust their doctors to make the right decisions.



DesFIP -> RE: Accidental Over doses (2/9/2008 3:48:26 PM)

I remember my grandmother accidentally taking an overdose of sleeping pills. She took her pill, woke up a couple of hours later disoriented and didn't remember taking the pill so she took another. This made her more groggy and disoriented and she repeated it again in the middle of the night. Luckily she was found early in the morning and rushed to the hospital.

And then comes the fact that if you have more than one diagnosis, you are seeing multiple specialists, none of whom talk to each other, and none of whom are specialists in pharmacology. This is why I use only one drugstore, small and owned by the head pharmacist. Not a chain where there's someone new every time. If there's a potential drug interaction, or a bad side effect, the pharmacist is a lot more likely to know about it than a physician.



sophia37 -> RE: Accidental Over doses (2/9/2008 4:59:57 PM)

I would presume, if when you get some of the drugs into you, you might then be a little tipsy, and not then realize you're taking an OD..when you take the other three pills you have on hand. Just my two cents.



angelikaJ -> RE: Accidental Over doses (2/9/2008 6:04:26 PM)

Since no one mentioned this, being severely sleep deprived can make you desperate and impair your ability to reason.



adoracat -> RE: Accidental Over doses (2/9/2008 6:48:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I remember my grandmother accidentally taking an overdose of sleeping pills. She took her pill, woke up a couple of hours later disoriented and didn't remember taking the pill so she took another. This made her more groggy and disoriented and she repeated it again in the middle of the night. Luckily she was found early in the morning and rushed to the hospital.


i've done that too.  fortunately it was a lower-dose painkiller and i wasnt injured, just *really* comfortable for several more hours than i would have been otherwise, and i had only taken one more than i should have.

i have the cognitive disfunction too, and yes, i do the "write down what time i took what med" now, too.

kitten



MissSCD -> RE: Accidental Over doses (2/9/2008 8:09:24 PM)

My slave is a forme funeral director.  I ask him things like this especially after Anna Nicole's death.  I could not understand how that could be accidental, and he said from the start of that investigation that it would be ruled as accidental because there was no note, no evidence supporting a real suicide, and no other information to support this clame.
It is sad, but true.  We all know she did it, and was probably encouraged by others.  That was her choice.
That is what happened with Heath, and I am pretty sure Brittney is going to be next because her actions reflect both of them.

Regards, MissSCD



MissMorrigan -> RE: Accidental Over doses (2/10/2008 3:27:57 AM)

So, Funeral Director equates to pathologist now, eh? I had no idea! So when autopsies/post-mortems need to be performed we know where to head - the local funeral directors. It's akin to having an auxiliary in a hospital diagnosing patients' disorders.

You 'KNOW' that Anna Nicole Smith and Heath Ledger committed suicide, what special inside information are you privy to that no one else is, Miss SCD? I'm not sure I envy your inside contacts, nor your ignorance in assuming that accidental overdoses are anything but accidental.

The fact, in your words,"no evidence supporting a real suicide, and no other information to support this clame", is that you are basing your conclusions on an assumption, nothing more, without any form of factual basis. You take a miniscule piece of information and your imagination runs rampant with it - 'The local guy that was found hanged must have been into autoerotic asphyxiation b/c I'd heard that he was pretty kinky. Of course it wasn't reported, but my friend who's a former funeral director said the body had a pair of panties on it'.



angelikaJ -> RE: Accidental Over doses (2/10/2008 7:38:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD

My slave is a forme funeral director.  I ask him things like this especially after Anna Nicole's death.  I could not understand how that could be accidental, and he said from the start of that investigation that it would be ruled as accidental because there was no note, no evidence supporting a real suicide, and no other information to support this clame.
It is sad, but true.  We all know she did it, and was probably encouraged by others.  That was her choice.
That is what happened with Heath, and I am pretty sure Brittney is going to be next because her actions reflect both of them.

Regards, MissSCD


This theory of it being suicide does not take into account the synergistic effects medications have on one another.
In Ledger's case it was not that the amount of any one of them was fatal but the combination was lethal.
Again, being sleep deprived ...needing sleep so desperately that you become frantic for it results in faulty logic...
you tried this pill last night... 2 of them in fact and you didn't sleep...and 2 of the others the day before yesterday didn't do a damn thing...so you figure cover all your bases... .



DesFIP -> RE: Accidental Over doses (2/10/2008 11:56:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD

My slave is a forme funeral director.  I ask him things like this especially after Anna Nicole's death.  I could not understand how that could be accidental, and he said from the start of that investigation that it would be ruled as accidental because there was no note, no evidence supporting a real suicide, and no other information to support this clame.
It is sad, but true.  We all know she did it, and was probably encouraged by others.  That was her choice.
That is what happened with Heath, and I am pretty sure Brittney is going to be next because her actions reflect both of them.

Regards, MissSCD


Notes are totally unneeded to diagnose suicide. Psychological autopsies can do it. They discover the person's mood over the last several months. Severe depression followed by a short period of calmness is probably the easiest way to diagnose one. Of course any mention of suicidal ideation is also taken into effect, healthy people don't turn to others and say they often think how peaceful it would be if they were dead.

But more importantly, why bother to diagnose or not diagnose suicide unless there is a law suit by a life insurance company. The only purpose it would serve in Anna Nicole's death would have been to sell even more tabloids and hurt her parents even more. So why spend the money and time necessary to determine this just to hurt innocents?



SubbieOnWheels -> RE: Accidental Over doses (2/10/2008 11:59:40 AM)

FR

It's been mentioned before, but here it is again. If you have multiple doctors, be sure what they're prescribing doesn't interact with what another doctor is prescribing. Or doesn't create a problem in another area.

I have diabetic retinopathy. This means that my eyes are subject to hemorrhaging. I've already lost the sight in my right eye to that disorder. When the orthopedic surgeon prescribed ibuprofen for pain in my shoulder (frozen shoulder), my opthamologist said, "Don't take that; it's a blood thinner, and your eye will hemorrhage again." Thank goodness I mentioned it to him.

So, now I have to make a choice: do I want to be pain-free, or do I want to see. No-brainer. Tylenol may not be the best at taking away all the pain, but at least I won't go blind from having my blood thinned.

>>edited because the stupid keyboard won't type what my brain wants it to<<



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