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advice on home air filter pls - 2/10/2008 9:57:15 AM   
pahunkboy


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Good afternoon.  I am now 1 week into a weather system that seeps road fumes into my house.  It doesnt help that I live on a busy street. After some thought- I wonder if a air filter would be advantaious.  Does anyone have one- what do you suggest?


How much would you spend and what speciifically works?
I find myself with headaches and stuffy lungs, Thanks.
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RE: advice on home air filter pls - 2/10/2008 10:09:06 AM   
angelikaJ


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Have you changed the filter for your heating system lately?

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RE: advice on home air filter pls - 2/10/2008 10:14:08 AM   
pahunkboy


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no.   I just moved here in April 2007.  I had the furnaced serviced over the summer.  I am not sure where the filter is.  I will change it.

Even still it is road fumes- deisel

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RE: advice on home air filter pls - 2/10/2008 10:22:32 AM   
angelikaJ


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Some of them should be changed once a month...

If the diesel smell is new...it might be your  furnace...if you heat w/ oil.
I get that smell when there is a problem

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RE: advice on home air filter pls - 2/10/2008 11:36:02 AM   
DesFIP


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Mine ought to be changed twice yearly. There are some filters that don't need to be changed, but they should be pulled out and rinsed clean. Take the screws off the furnace door and you'll probably see the filter.

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RE: advice on home air filter pls - 2/10/2008 3:23:59 PM   
Muttling


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I'm actually a CIE (Certified Indoor Environmentalist) so this is a topic I know a good bit about.


In response to the OP, do you have oil heat? and do you have a carbon monoxide detector?

If you heat with oil, that is No. 2 Fuel Oil which is just another name for diesel.  If this is the case, definitely get the unit checked out.

No matter what the case is, you really need a CO detector if you're smelling diesel fumes.  (In truth, everyone needs one but your case is even more important as you're smelling vehicle exhaust.)   They're very cheap and you can buy one at Lowes, Home Depot, etc.   They look and install just like a smoke alarm.   One on the sleeping level of the house is what is typically recommended.

On the subject of air filters, there are two places where they would be installed.  The older style units have them installed at the furnace.  The majority of modern ones are installed in the air intake register.  This will be a large vent installed in one of your walls and should be easy to find.   It will be a vent the size of a large picture frame (e.g. 24inches x 24 inches or something along that size).   Some homes have more than one intake.   There will be screws or clips holding the grate cover on.  Remove them to pull off the cover and you will most likely find your filter.

In response to everyone including the OP

There are a few different kinds of filters so please bear with me and I will explain them to you.  I will also tell you what to look for when buying, how often to change, and the place to order on line with great prices on them.

There are basically two types of filter, activated carbon and particulate.   Carbon removes organic vapors such as diesel fumes, formaldehydes (they're in everything from carpet to glue and are what cause that wonderful new house smell), etc.   Carbon is very unusual to see on a home filtration system and the only reason I mention it is because the OP is dealing with an organic vapor problem.   Unfortunately, the best particulate filters in the world won't do much for the smells he is describing.  If you do some research, you should be able to come up with a combined filter that has carbon or charcoal in it and will fit in your air intake.   Let me know if you want me to discuss the issue at greater length and I will happy to give you all the pro's n con's I can about your various options.

Particulate filters is what everyone has been discussing to above.   Just as it sounds, they remove particulates from the air.  High efficeincy particulate air (HEPA) filters are the most effective with electrostatic units running second.  A step down from that is paper filter. All three of these types of filters are specialty units that are installed at the furnace.  They are typically 4 to 10 inchest wide and are mounted on the air intake of the furnace.   If you think you have one but aren't sure, send me a picture of your furnace and I'll tell you.  (The electro static is the kind that has to be washed regularly.)   If anyone is insterested in knowing the pro's n con's of each, please let me know.

The more common particulate filters are the 1 inch thick square or rectangular filters you buy at the store.  This is what will be installed in your air intake but can also be installed at the furnace.   There is a WIDE variety of these things on the market.  The 50 cent fiberglass ones are practicly worthless and only do enough to protect the blower on the furnace from particulates that could damage it.   It does nothing worth mentioning for breathing air and household dust.

There are a number of ways that filters are rated and evaluated.  The ONLY rating system that makes sense for household air filtration is the MERV system.  Ignore all the other crap they put on the label and look for the MERV number.  A fiberglass filter is a MERV 1 while a HEPA filter is a MERV 14.  Most researchers on the subject recommend a MERV 8 or higher.  

I order Accumulair Platinums from www.filters-now.com and pay $11 each for MERV 11 filters.  Home Depot sells similar filters for more than $20.  I have been ordering these filters for about 10 years and have been extremely pleased.

On the subject of electrostatic filters, it is impossible to assign a MERV rating to them because they function opposite of a regular filter   As a regular filter loads up, it's removal efficeincy improves but it's air flow capacity drops dramatically.   As an electrostatic loads up, the air flow remains the same but the removal efficeincy drops dramatically.   They are very good units but they MUST be washed regularly or will allow air to pass with no removal what so ever. 

On the subject of how frequent to change your filters, it really depends on the cleanliness of your home and the climate in which you live.  Filters are more effective in humid climates and will remove more particulates in air that is 50% or greater humidity.  This also means they will become loaded and require changing more frequently in humid air.  If you open your windows a lot, have pets, or have a fire place that doesn't draft well, your filter life span will be dramatically reduced.   In short, check your filters mothly and change them when they look dirty or start to become concave from getting sucked in.

Hope this helps.


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RE: advice on home air filter pls - 2/10/2008 3:56:41 PM   
KenDckey


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Hey Muttling.   Mostly just a couriosity question.   But, what do you think of the concept of an indoor swamp cooler mounted with a carbon filter at the exit point for both humidity and odor control?

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RE: advice on home air filter pls - 2/10/2008 5:10:38 PM   
Muttling


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I know of swamp coolers, but have not experience with them as they are not used in my part of the country.  My guess is that a heat exchanger is a better approach as the filters would probably get loaded up fairly quickly, but that is just a guess.


P.S. - Carbon wouldn't do much for knocking down the hummidity, but a dehumidifier or a humidistat isn't very expensive and would let you tweak the humidity to exactly where you want it.  (e.g. 60%)

< Message edited by Muttling -- 2/10/2008 5:12:17 PM >

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RE: advice on home air filter pls - 2/10/2008 5:21:20 PM   
Zensee


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If you are getting fuel smells or smokey smells coming from the vents you might have a cracked firebox - very dangerous, as the combustion products are getting into your heating air. The fire box should be airtight.



Z.


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RE: advice on home air filter pls - 2/10/2008 5:41:02 PM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

I know of swamp coolers, but have not experience with them as they are not used in my part of the country.  My guess is that a heat exchanger is a better approach as the filters would probably get loaded up fairly quickly, but that is just a guess.


P.S. - Carbon wouldn't do much for knocking down the hummidity, but a dehumidifier or a humidistat isn't very expensive and would let you tweak the humidity to exactly where you want it.  (e.g. 60%)


Swamp coolers are basically homemodels of chilling towers.

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RE: advice on home air filter pls - 2/10/2008 5:55:28 PM   
Muttling


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

I know of swamp coolers, but have not experience with them as they are not used in my part of the country.  My guess is that a heat exchanger is a better approach as the filters would probably get loaded up fairly quickly, but that is just a guess.


P.S. - Carbon wouldn't do much for knocking down the hummidity, but a dehumidifier or a humidistat isn't very expensive and would let you tweak the humidity to exactly where you want it.  (e.g. 60%)


Swamp coolers are basically homemodels of chilling towers.


Yep.  It's still a matter of heat exchange.  Chilling just means your just taking heat out of the home air.

In Tennessee, we have a few folks running geothermal units where the heat exchange is done with deep ground water then the water reinjected.   It's a really energy efficeint operation winter and summer, but you sometimes have to supplement with a bit of electric.  The problem is the cost of installing the water wells and getting a groundwater injection permit.   Start up cost can be pretty hefty as you typically have to go 100 feet or more into the bedrock.

The biggest problem they run into is iron scale and iron bacteria, both of which can be a royal pain to deal with depending on the iron levels in the water.

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RE: advice on home air filter pls - 2/10/2008 5:58:09 PM   
DesFIP


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In addition to your filters, get your chimney cleaned before each heating season.  If you have a fireplace or wood stove, those chimney cleaners will clean them and furnace chimneys also.

Having a direct vent LP, didn't think of the fumes being from the furnace. Definitely plug in a CO monitor.

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RE: advice on home air filter pls - 2/10/2008 6:14:53 PM   
KenDckey


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Muttling.

We have had people out here use ground temp to heat/cool their homes by burrying tubing and then installing a fans at each end to circulate the air thru the home.   I always wanted to try that.  Their heating cooling bills were so cheap but the internal air temp averaged 70 year round.  Worst problem I think was geting air exchanges from the outside.

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RE: advice on home air filter pls - 2/10/2008 6:24:32 PM   
Muttling


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Muttling.

We have had people out here use ground temp to heat/cool their homes by burrying tubing and then installing a fans at each end to circulate the air thru the home.   I always wanted to try that.  Their heating cooling bills were so cheap but the internal air temp averaged 70 year round.  Worst problem I think was geting air exchanges from the outside.



That's actually a very easy fix.


Air exchange from the outside is a problem for EVERY home built these days.   In short, homes are very tightly built and suck when they should blow.  A well ventilated building is under pressure and you can feel the air blow out when you open the door.  That is because commercial HVAC units are required to pull in a certain percentage of outside air.  In a home, the bathroom vent, stove vent, etc. pull air out without replacing it so you get a suction and can sometimes feel it when you open a door.   This pulls in untreated air from the outside instead of giving you good replacement air.

There are units called Energy Recovery Ventilators or ERVs that you can install in any home.   The unit pulls air out of a house and passes it over an extremely efficeint heat exchanger (90+% effiiceint.)   It also pulls outside air in while filtering it and passing it through the heat exchanger.   It's a GREAT device and does wonders for indoor air quality but prices for a home start around $1200 and go up to $3000 depending on the size of the home.   Texas is talking about requiring them to be installed on every new home.

Right now, my life is in transition but I definitely plan on getting one installed when things finally settle down.



EDIT: On the 70 degree thing, you should be able to install a small electric furnace to boost the temperature on the air coming back up from the ground and get any temperature you want.  In the summer, you wouldn't run it at all and just let your thermostat control when circulation fan kicks on and off.  In the winter you'd want to boost the temperature a few degrees with a small furnace or a wood burning stove but it would be a LOT cheaper than doing it all with a furnace.   Boosting the temp 5 degrees is a tiny amount and there's all sorts of fairly cheap flow through heaters that could serve as a furnace, you just want to make sure to get an efficeint one so you don't wind up smoking the electric bill..

< Message edited by Muttling -- 2/10/2008 7:04:58 PM >

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RE: advice on home air filter pls - 2/11/2008 7:24:30 AM   
pahunkboy


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Hello and Good moring!

Ok done on the carbon monoxide detector. I had one not plugged in. [electric cord gone wild in my place,lol]  The heat is gas forced air.  I experieced the same thing in summer when my road here was the detour road.

I am going to check out your info.  I am so glad I asked, so as to cut thru the noise. Thank you.  I have done a porch enclosure so as to put a barrier to the noise and grime.  Tho it isnt finished.

I have almost no carpets.  Im not asmatic but follow some of those guildlines- so as to breathe better.

I keep the heat at 52-60. Part of it is cost- tho I find it easier to breath in cool air. My lungs are VERY sensitive.

Checking you link right now.   :-)

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RE: advice on home air filter pls - 2/11/2008 7:34:55 AM   
pahunkboy


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http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/11/southeast.fires/index.html     This may be a stretch.... fires in VA,  the ones in CanAda seeped in one year.

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RE: advice on home air filter pls - 2/14/2008 6:58:51 AM   
pahunkboy


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Hello folks,  I was thinking, I planted 48 trees here, that helps. The park project will landscape across the street- the flood wall is cement...so the fumes bounce off of it like a canyon.

What if I put say 3 sheets out. hear me out. Instead of a season flag- a flat sheet a few inches from the side of house...this would capture some of the grime?



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RE: advice on home air filter pls - 2/27/2008 1:26:57 PM   
pahunkboy


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---how about a whole house fan, blowing toward the source of the fumes?

also- maybe one that runs on solar?   being that a water heater is 20% of bill- ...i wonder about water heater

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