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RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 10:18:11 PM   
liminalRapture


Posts: 181
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline
Well, I'm probably an "ERS" (although a different variety than the kind you quoted) and I've tried to figure out where my reluctance comes from. 

First of all--don't underestimate the damage that the men who think "asshole" = "dominate" can do.  Today a man told me, when I warned him I was political, that I'd insulted the troops and was satanic, if I'd support Hillary.  Yesterday a man, whom I'd never spoken with, said he wanted to slap me hard, across the face, which is something that is hard with someone I trust.  Not what you want to hear from a stranger.  Last year, a man I went out with 1 time, took out a number of ads on Craig's List, on my behalf, explaining I was into "violent rape fantasies," and giving my first name, where I worked and my cell phone number. 

I doubt seriously that men in a vanilla context say "Oh, I like genital stimulation in the missionary position with simultaneous kisses--let's fuck!"  In a nice vanilla context, they treat women like people <gasp> and introduce sex after they know what her favorite hobby and book is, at the very least.  I understand men don't want to waste time, but I think it makes women build stronger and safer walls, which makes me, at least, more reluctant to come out of those comfy walls.  To me, a "dominate" needs to realize s/he is taking on twice the responsiblity, because s/he needs to look out for both people.  It isn't that one person's needs just evaporate.  Until that is established, I think my reluctance is well warranted.

A smaller subset of men here seem more interested in filling out a series of check boxes, than making sure that something meets my needs and will be healthy for me.  There was one man I went out with for a month, a lovely human being whom I would have been thrilled to meet on a nilla site, but just didn't understand that his curiosity about piercing didn't mean I could go through with it and the pain he wanted to cause was more than I could healthily handle (I don't like pain--I'm just a submissive, but not a masochist and he wanted to play really hard core).  I got more and more reluctant as it became more and more clear he didn't really have a clue as to how his behavior would impact me.  (That said, he got together with a lovely woman who is a masochist and they are deliriously happy with each other; but it would have been truly wrong for me.)

Another issue--I wish I weren't submissive.  Given the choice, I'd much rather be vanilla/kinky than submissive.  But I didn't get to pick those boxes at creation, and I'm happier excepting who I am than running away from it.  But I ran away for it for years.  That certainly adds a je ne sais quois to the porridge.

Finally: It is sexy as hell to have reluctance broken down, as long as it is broken down the right way.  "I know you are scared.  I understand that _________ makes you feel _________ and I know you have the power to do this.  And you will.  For me."  Now, maybe I'm contradicting myself with the first 2 issues, and this last one can only be done in the right way, at the right time, by the right person.  But I think I still have much of my reluctance for that reason.

_____________________________

"Ring the bells that can still ring. Forget your perfect offering. There's a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." Leonard Cohen.

(in reply to MissMagnolia)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 10:22:29 PM   
sunshinedreams


Posts: 181
Joined: 1/22/2008
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I know that most times for me finding the words to convey what it is that i really want to say is hard. When it is something deeply personal, i find that i am much more careful in my phrasing, just so i am not misunderstood. Thus, my profile remains blank, for now.

(in reply to Honsoku)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/11/2008 10:26:43 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
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As far as the profile you quoted from goes..This sub is a 21 y/o..How clear were you at that age as to what you wanted from life?..Essentially I see a 21 y/o exploring what is out there and how she may fit into it..I also see an insecure female, who wants to make sure she is not taken advantage of, so hence the warnings of "bitchiness"....this submissive has a desire, she is simply unsure of where and how far her desire goes..at 21 y/o. I was a staunch feminist,A kind of " I am woman!, hear me roar!" I could never conceive of being submissive to any one, let alone any man...I was,to my way of thinking, at that time, trying to prove my independance to any and all who crossed my path. I was uber female out there to show that women were as capable as any man..(I am so dating myself here..lol)...but with age comes wisdom...I see now that all I was doing was actually trying to prove to myself that I was capable, independant,and to have my family be proud of the daughter they raised ....Now I have come full circle and realize that the choices one makes in life and to accept responsibility for those choices is what shows capability and independance..wether it is as a submissive,a Dominant, a vanilla, or what have you.."I am submissive!,hear me roar!"...Tempting

_____________________________

I have greatly enjoyed the second blooming...suddenly you find at the age of 50, that a whole new life has opened before you.........Agatha Christie.

You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

(in reply to lilabbotsfordgrl)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/12/2008 1:45:08 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlebitxxx

Maybe some of them, like me, picked 'submissive' because there is no category for Free Woman, Free Companion, bottom, masochist, or pain slut.  We are kinda limited as to what label we smack onto ourselves. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirMIkeSD

and then you also have folks that are just tops and bottoms in play there is no D/s involved for them.  Which is fine, but there is no way to indicate that you are just a Top or Bottom in play on your profile which is where many of these people you are talking about could fall into.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMagnolia

Yes, I've always thought a "kinky" option should be included. I, and yes I speak only for myself, have found the vast majority of males who have labelled themselves sub or slave are, in actual fact, just looking for kinky sex, not domination. So much so that I have actually said in my profile that kinky sex does not equal submissive and is definitely not something I want.


i really agree that since the choices are pretty limited as to how to categorize oneself that 'submissive' is used because there just isn't any other choices available.  That's what the written portion of the profile is for and if that doesn't meet someone's definition of 'submissive' then they are free to click the handy X on the upper right corner of the screen.  i daresay there are a huge number of females who would just love to play Scarlett to Rhett.  But in real life Rhett probably grabbed up 100lbs of Scarlett along with another 75lbs of petticoats and hoop skirts, got to about the first landing on the stairs and said, *wheeze pant pant* "Go fuck yourself Scarlett, I just put my back out!" *pant pant wheeze*

< Message edited by eyesopened -- 2/12/2008 2:36:07 AM >


_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to SirMIkeSD)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/12/2008 4:49:15 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Honsoku
I fully understand not listing sexually oriented information, but to say nothing about yourself and expect to receive a personalized message? What in the nine hells are we supposed to base our conversation off of?

"Hi.  I'm writing you because you have a nice smile and I love that style of hair.  You don't have much written in your profile, and I wish there was more, because I'm intrigued.  Think of it this way.  We're at a party right now, across the room.  I notice you, and try to make eye contact, but we don't know anything about each other yet.  I come to this site becaue I am hoping to make friends, and develop a special connection with someone.  So I care about who you are, not just how you look.  Please write back, ask me any questions you want, and tell me something special about yourself."


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Honsoku)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/12/2008 5:46:24 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
You know RedMagic, the more I read your posts, the more fantastic a person I think you are. Your people skills are superb and you are kind and witty. I hope your special someone appreciates you enough.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/12/2008 6:09:25 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
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Thank you.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/12/2008 6:15:48 AM   
BadGodLJE


Posts: 21
Joined: 5/7/2004
Status: offline
Some people are just very agressive and hardcore.  People with this mindset are like Amazon women, they have to be taken and shown that someone stronger, tougher, meaner, or just more is out there and wants them.  I can understand the mindset.

Levi

(in reply to Honsoku)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/12/2008 7:06:09 AM   
domahpet


Posts: 1505
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Santa Rosa
Status: offline
i just saw a profile from a sub in my town that stated, "MY home is MY safe place and i will not submit there..."
this sub only wants 'good looking men or couples, and will submit to them in public or in their home. doesnt ant to have to ask for what she wants, but wants to try new things.'
the whole thing was very contradictory and confused.
i was was thrilled to see someone in my town (i dont know many other subs in r/t), and close to me age,
but after i read thru i had no desire to contact this sub at all. the whole thing was screaming 'topping from the bottom',
'weekend warrior', and seemed to be a perfect example of what you asked about.


_____________________________

Zeedaddys
~DJ domahpet~
*Love is giving someone the power to break your heart, but trusting them not to*

*crystal*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLI12uN6k5k

(in reply to lilabbotsfordgrl)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/12/2008 7:37:01 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lilabbotsfordgrl

If you don't really like submission, if you're a bitch, if you're aggressive,

I'm a bitch. I'm strong, I'm dominant and I certainly can be agressive. I'm more Dominant than 99% of of the Dominants that I've met. I'm absolutely submissive to Master because he's one of the few people that I've met that is stronger than I am. He inspires my submission. I do not have a submissive nature.

quote:

and if you're more interested in your own needs than anyone else's, do you really have a submissive nature?  [\quote] I'd be more concerned about someone that has no idea what their needs are. Needs are needs. They're things that you cannot survive (mentally or physically) a relationship without.  So, you should be interested and extremely protective of your needs. I think it's absolutely ok to say what you want and need out of a relationship. Otherwise, how will you get it?

quote:


Maybe you're not really ready for BDSM at all, if you have to force yourself so hard into a role?
Well, considering that BDSM is Bondage/Discipline/Sado-Masochism.....submission doesn't enter that equation. I know people who flat out are not submissive, but are into BDSM. I know people that are into D/s, that do nothing within BDSM.

Personally, who cares if they're here because they like rough sex or kinky sex. It's a good venue for people seeking that. There is no requirements at the door that says you have to be 24/7 D/s to get in. There are plenty on this site that meet that requirement, but fail the requirement of being a decent human being.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to lilabbotsfordgrl)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/12/2008 10:08:06 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinedreams

I know that most times for me finding the words to convey what it is that i really want to say is hard. When it is something deeply personal, i find that i am much more careful in my phrasing, just so i am not misunderstood. Thus, my profile remains blank, for now.


I could quote many here but this was the most direct but I am no means trying to single you out or pick on you.

Most of us agree that relationships take 50/50 effort. So does getting into a relationship. It has been my experience that profiles from both genders and roles often are written in a way or lack of a way that is completely internalized with little or no thought how to translate it so another can get a feeling what they are about and looking for.

Another big problem is this obsession of writing almost entire profiles about the people you do not want or who have caused you problems in the past. When we go looking for shoes do we visit electronic stores? Write for the people you want to meet. I think all people looking would be wise if they read their own profile and thought if this was from the gender and role I was looking for would I be attracted to it?

In terms of reluctance many here have listed the reasons. It is unfortunate but I think the cool factor comes often into play. The I want to fit in or I think people think this is cooler type thoughts. So people do not want to admit to being more of a bottom so they call themselves submissive type thing and consider it a put down if people only see they are on here for kinky sex when that is a perfectly good reason to be.


_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to sunshinedreams)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/12/2008 10:14:06 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
I can be a bitch, I can be aggressive when I want something, and I see my masochistic side as being about bottoming, not about being submissive. I have preferences about the men I was into. I had a wall up when I met my Daddy and a list of hard limits longer than my arm about what I would and would not do. Almost two years later, the limits I have are pretty much his limits too. He sees me as his submissive, he thinks I am very submissive. He would not want someone that could not stand on her own two feet and be a bitch and aggressive about what they wanted in life. There is nothing that says a submissive cannot have any sort of personality under the sun... all that matters is that they submit to the person that they want to dominate them..


I think that you have the impression that because someone isn't like you, they are not submissive... that just ain't so. I do not know if this 21 year old is a sub, frankly I am sure she would be a good submissive for the right person.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to lilabbotsfordgrl)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/12/2008 10:23:34 AM   
LadyLynx


Posts: 1098
Joined: 7/24/2007
Status: offline
I like blue collar hands too, that has to do with how the hands feel on my skin................mmmmmmm.

I have been accused of being too picky. I just laugh it off.  A friend of mine actually said to me, that he thinks I am a switch because I am reluctant to give up the control completely. heh. he's just pouty because I don't want to give up the control to him.

_____________________________

Our community maybe openminded as a whole, but it is still made up of individuals who bring in their own opinions,baggage and agendas!

Known as SwitchWitch in my local community,and on IRC Bondage.

I also go by the nic SwitchWitch on MDS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/12/2008 10:26:40 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
I love blue collar clothes on brilliant men. My Daddy has a degree in SE Asian history, but he is also a longshoreman. He is also more of a feminist than I am

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to LadyLynx)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/12/2008 11:54:51 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Honsoku

Vent on:

This has been one of my biggest pet peeves. I fully understand not listing sexually oriented information, but to say nothing about yourself and expect to receive a personalized message? What in the nine hells are we supposed to base our conversation off of? Me dom, you sub, lets fuck? It doesn't help that submissives (especially young ones) tend to be very shy. Many want the other person to take the lead without opening themselves up at all. It's really a case of wanting your cake and eating it to. Let's make the dom do all the work and to hell with him if he isn't a mind reader! The perfect dom will know just what to say! That's if he bothers with your blank profile. Heaven help me if I see another profile that consists of an Anaïs Nin quote.

Vent off.

Though one thing I have noticed is that most (seems to me, anyway) submissives aren't very introspective. They tend to not understand what makes themselves tick except in a very general way, until they have considerable experience. For some it is laziness, others shyness, and yet more just plain don't understand who they are well enough (yes, there are other reasons).


I was thinking about this subject more and was reminded of a discussion I was having privately with a friend.

On the whole many people have a huge problem with rejection and not being able to handle it in the context of what it is. This motivation I think can be seen a lot in how we go about things.

The reluctance of a person who is submissive to give of ourselves in such away where I think it is perceived if I do so much for that person why then do they still reject me. So maybe it is common to build up defenses based on the individual like moving really slow toward the power exchange aspect or long list of limits without coming close to ever exploring them and little or no power giving over at first and other things of this nature.

I think this may also be the case about the profiles on sites like this. Some people regardless of the role or gender are too afraid of taking the time to write out a meaningful profile out of fear that if they truly put themselves out there and no one they are attracted to shows any interest. So we get negative filled this is what I do not want, endless quotes taking off the web, the what can a person get from a few words, and all other justifications why people often refuse to bare themselves on a site like this.


_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to Honsoku)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/12/2008 12:04:09 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
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Toserves, in case I haven't said so, I love your insight.

(in reply to toservez)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/12/2008 12:16:09 PM   
littleone35


Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline
I have no idea who was the first to say it, but as Master says no matter how strong and tough you think you are there is always someone stronger and tougher.  (for those of you who are old enough remember the song Big Bad Leroy Brown)  We all know what happened to him.  For those of you who don't remember just let me know.  As for the age ar 21 i did not know what the hell i was or wanted.  Some are more self aware then i at that age  but it is kinda young she will find out sooner or later i guess.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/12/2008 12:16:50 PM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline
Thank you very much and I very much relfect your words back on to you from my eyes.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/12/2008 1:59:04 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domahpet

i just saw a profile from a sub in my town that stated, "MY home is MY safe place and i will not submit there..."
this sub only wants 'good looking men or couples, and will submit to them in public or in their home. doesnt ant to have to ask for what she wants, but wants to try new things.'
the whole thing was very contradictory and confused.
i was was thrilled to see someone in my town (i dont know many other subs in r/t), and close to me age,
but after i read thru i had no desire to contact this sub at all. the whole thing was screaming 'topping from the bottom',
'weekend warrior', and seemed to be a perfect example of what you asked about.



Are all of your friends subs who are exactly like you? You don't have any friends who are older or younger, who have different hobbies than you?

As far as not wanting someone in her home; either she's had a bad experience with that in the past meaning a stalker, or she has ums and isn't willing to let anyone casual meet them. Both being perfectly good reasons in my book.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to domahpet)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: extremely reluctant "submissives" - 2/12/2008 3:10:55 PM   
TracyTaken


Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline
quote:

I am not arguing or picking a fight here but is this not a catch-22 situation in terms of how is a sincere male suppose to read a profile and respond with a sincere personal message if there is no sincere information.


I don't see you picking a fight; I was just offering a theory to go with your observation.  I'm not looking for anybody, so it's irrelevant to me anyway.  I understand your frustration though.

(in reply to justdavid)
Profile   Post #: 40
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