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I think too much :) - 2/11/2008 6:35:52 PM   
usedandpurrin


Posts: 13
Joined: 1/28/2008
Status: offline 		The wheels of my brain turn and random questions pop out, in the past the way i dealt with this was to work it out on my own, to form my own opinions and then more or less stick to that. But i have discovered that by being a part of a community like Collarme i can ask these questions out loud and it is interesting to hear the views of others, esp when some of them come from others who are more experianced in this lifestyle then me.

In a vanilla relationship, generally, boy meets girl. (or some alternative, boy boy girl girl, you get the picture :) ) Boy and girl date,  get to know eachother and then go out and if they are lucky, fall in love and spend serious time together.
The important part is that you get to know that person very well, establish a bond, respect, trust. You (hopefully) like and respect that person and would never dream of wanting to try and 'change' them. i mean after all, if you like who they are why would you?

While browsing profiles (my new favorite hobby :P) i have seen many Doms/Masters say something along the lines of 'come be my slave sub and let me mould you into my perfect sub/slave. I will take the raw material and change it into my perfect little toy' i am, of course, paraphrasing.

My question i guess is this.

If you take the time to get to know someone thourally enough so that you can establish the level of trust neccissary for a realationship of this type and also ensure compatability, whats the point if you;re looking to completely alter that person anyway?
If you love, respect, like and trust your sub/slave why would you WANT to change him/her, beyond training?

Honestly im not trying to cause offense and if i have i sincerly apologuise. im not trying to insult anyones point of view, this is  just an honest question to discover something i don't already know :)

Regards
Purrin
xxx
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: I think too much :) - 2/11/2008 6:38:23 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		I think a lot of vanilla people would like to change their partner, but are afraid of messing things up.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to usedandpurrin)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: I think too much :) - 2/11/2008 6:48:48 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		I think there are a couple of ways to view those profiles.  One would be that the Master is simply saying the slave will learn his needs and wants.  How he wants things done to his liking, etc. 

The other is that they are simply looking for wanking material or someone to treat like crap or have the Master mentality that all women are merely here to serve him. 

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to usedandpurrin)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: I think too much :) - 2/11/2008 6:53:42 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		A lot of nonkink females believe they can change their partners. It never works out well.
Here, the genders switch around. And I don't believe it works that well here either. There will be resentment that you aren't good enough, that you have to be turned into some fantasy creation to be approved of, and since you will never live up to their fantasy you will never get the love you need.

Changing bad habits, fine. Trying to change basic personalities, bad news.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to angelic)
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RE: I think too much :) - 2/11/2008 6:54:22 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: usedandpurrin

If you take the time to get to know someone thourally enough so that you can establish the level of trust neccissary for a realationship of this type and also ensure compatability, whats the point if you;re looking to completely alter that person anyway?
If you love, respect, like and trust your sub/slave why would you WANT to change him/her, beyond training?



For some people it is a kink and something that they enjoy.  There was a very good thread on Body Modifications that may give you an idea why some people like altering some things about their partner and why their partners enjoy it as well.

I think altering superficial things about your partner can be extremely gratifying for both.  I think if you are attempting to alter the core aspects of who a person is, then you probably have picked the wrong partner.

There have been some behaviors of mine that he has changed and there are many others that he has not.  Being his slave means that I do his will, even if that will means changing something about myself.  As long as I am not harmed by the change, then I will do his will.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to usedandpurrin)
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RE: I think too much :) - 2/11/2008 6:57:42 PM   
fluffyswitch


Posts: 1108
Joined: 9/29/2007
From: Buffalo
Status: offline 		i think that a lot of people find the thought of being able to mold someone empowering...that you have so much control over someone that you can alter them to your will. i think in practice when you enter into a serious or even slightly serious relationship realize that there's a difference between personal growth and large changes, and that you end up being more concerned with personal growth.

_____________________________


“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” churchill

the first rule of fluff club is that you don't talk about fluff club!

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: I think too much :) - 2/11/2008 6:57:59 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

I think there are a couple of ways to view those profiles.  One would be that the Master is simply saying the slave will learn his needs and wants.  How he wants things done to his liking, etc. 

The other is that they are simply looking for wanking material or someone to treat like crap or have the Master mentality that all women are merely here to serve him. 


I will agree with this answer.

In my case, my Master did not change my personality in the least, rather he helped me remove my detrimental tendencies and foster a healthier me, while teaching me to learn what I very badly wanted to learn - to get out of my own way and fully submit to him.  Molding clay does not mean replacing the clay entirely.  It can mean sculpting it into a work of art that you both love.  :)

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: I think too much :) - 2/11/2008 7:02:07 PM   
atursvcMaam


Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline 		Purrin,
   No need to apologize, you think well.  as with any relationship there is some give and take.  someone who wants to mold a person from the ground up is working on unreal expectations.  the relationships that seem to work best here, and in the vanilla world are the ones who will accept their partner "skinny legs, raggedy suit, warts and all"  and hope to build from that basis.  if everyone was perfect it would be pretty darned boring.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: I think too much :) - 2/11/2008 7:03:35 PM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

The important part is that you get to know that person very well, establish a bond, respect, trust. You (hopefully) like and respect that person and would never dream of wanting to try and 'change' them. i mean after all, if you like who they are why would you?


Hi used;

I have to disagree here. I believe it's attendant in vanilla relationships, perhaps even rampant. He doesn't want kids, she'll change his mind. She hates his golf Saturdays, he believes she'll get used to it. He comes from an abusive background, she thinks he loves her so much he'll never do anything like that to her.

It seems to me it goes back to our earliest respective socializations. It is endemic in our society that idealized love is proved by the ultimate change that occurs when we take the leap...or fall.

It is hoped that within WiiTWD, we can have open dialogue with understanding of at least the rudimentary foundation with which to start. Maybe, however, it's often another fairy tale that will disappoint, not more, not less, than vanilla.

As for thinking too much? Don't worry, many won't notice.

[Edited to add an addition.]


< Message edited by subtee -- 2/11/2008 7:08:08 PM >

_____________________________

Don't believe everything you think...

(in reply to usedandpurrin)
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RE: I think too much :) - 2/11/2008 7:05:51 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		~Fast Reply~

The idea of molding the sub/slave/pet appeals to some. Some like to mold, others like to be molded. We don't hold with the idea, he fell for the woman I am, not the woman he could make me into. Doesn't make others wrong, but it makes that approach wrong for us. It might be wrong for you, it might not be.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to atursvcMaam)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: I think too much :) - 2/11/2008 7:10:12 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I see nothing differnt in this than vanilla. For one to be with someone and there trust that someone, one has to get to know that person in a vanilla shaded light. Myself, I would expect nothing less as I see the lifestyle, my lifestyle as an enhancement on normal mundane life.

Those that profess to mould someone, I would take with a sack full of salt. Many who profess to being experienced and of long standing might well have a string of failed relationships behind them. Have you noticed how people only state their good bits?

For me, with whom I am with, that relationship is firm, I make it so for my security and theirs. Without trust, I will not venture into a suggestion of pursuing anything BDSM.

Hottest girl in the world, if I were not satisfied with the level of trust, I would turn away, it is just not worth the damage to either party.

Then there are also the one handed keyboard typers who like to offer so much with words of power, but when the chips are down, they are nought but a wannabee.

My advice, start with friends, correspond, find out who they are for real. Only when truly satisfied and without a doubt in mind meet, if that is of interest and then take it from there as largelly vanilla.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: I think too much :) - 2/11/2008 7:14:19 PM   
MidMichCowboy


Posts: 665
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		I'm not interested in a person I have to remake or mold. I would like them to learn my wants and needs, as I would like to learn theirs. I too don't understand this need to take a person and remake them. To me, it shows a pathetic need to validate oneself through another person. I am comfortable with who I am. I'm looking for a lady who is comfortable with who she is. That is a good starting point.

_____________________________

I want to capture your mind, your spirit, your soul, your body, your devotion and your love. Then, will I give you my heart.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: I think too much :) - 2/11/2008 7:44:23 PM   
TracyTaken


Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline 		What you say makes sense to me.  The other side is, if a person liked herself already, why would she want to be molded (to use your words "completely altered")?

(in reply to usedandpurrin)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: I think too much :) - 2/11/2008 8:25:41 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		For me, I find people that I like and accept on an every day basis. What I work to "change" is their concept of who they are, spiritually (which is more like building self confidence and aiding in self development), how they do some things, how they serve and whatnot. I don't work to change who they are fundamentally. In fact, only they can do that...but what I want them to do is "evolve".

I think that makes sense.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to usedandpurrin)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: I think too much :) - 2/11/2008 8:37:05 PM   
sweetwenchie


Posts: 1993
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline 		i do not go into a relationship hoping to change the other person, not only is it fruitless, but if i was attracted to them initially, flaws, quirks, and all, why risk changing those very things that drew me to them? 

A friend of mine recently said "every single last one of us is flawed in some way.. but those flaws are part of what makes us flawless... our imperfections make us perfect".  i'm still wrapping my brain around that one, or attempting to.

_____________________________

"To make oneself an object, to make oneself passive, is a very different thing from being a passive object." - De Beauvoir

"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." - Nietzsche

(in reply to usedandpurrin)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: I think too much :) - 2/11/2008 10:28:39 PM   
greyangelus


Posts: 192
Joined: 1/22/2008
Status: offline 		I do't really see the point myself.  Peoples personalities tend to work like a big, fine-tined, machine; start wonking around with one area you inevitably change the whole timing of the system.  Whenever I see those words, I end up cringing.  Just leave the underlying stuf alone and either accept them or tell them its just not gonna work.

Superficial things, yes, I can see wanting to change that to a degree.  Teaching someone a Dom's likes/dislikes/wants/needs and expecting them to remember them and go by those preference yes.  But whats superficial to one person is very not so to another, and  conforming to a Dom's preference can impact at a deeper level than a sub is comfortable with.


I just had a recent encounter of why 'moulding'  a sub almost never works in the end.   I work with a 20yr old single mom who I'm positive is submissive (or at least primarily submissive).   A little bit of education in terminology and some self-introspection she'd be a dom's dream sub someday.  Tall, thin, blond, green eyes;  smart as hell, and has explored the kink thing in the past (her stash of bondage toys was mentioned).  She's great fun to talk to, we've got similiar tastes in music and movies; we tend to hold the same opinions about a lot of things.

And not in a million years will I ever try to make her my sub.  Why, you may ask?  Because our personalities simply do NOT mesh at that level.  All the bits and peices of the kind of sub I'd love to have are all present in her, and they completely fail at being a whole package that I like.  That little 'spark' thats so essential for a person to really consider another as a partner is completely AWOL.

(in reply to sweetwenchie)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: I think too much :) - 2/12/2008 5:55:31 AM   
WillowRain


Posts: 191
Joined: 6/18/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: usedandpurrin

The wheels of my brain turn and random questions pop out, in the past the way i dealt with this was to work it out on my own, to form my own opinions and then more or less stick to that. But i have discovered that by being a part of a community like Collarme i can ask these questions out loud and it is interesting to hear the views of others, esp when some of them come from others who are more experianced in this lifestyle then me.

In a vanilla relationship, generally, boy meets girl. (or some alternative, boy boy girl girl, you get the picture :) ) Boy and girl date,  get to know eachother and then go out and if they are lucky, fall in love and spend serious time together.
The important part is that you get to know that person very well, establish a bond, respect, trust. You (hopefully) like and respect that person and would never dream of wanting to try and 'change' them. i mean after all, if you like who they are why would you?

While browsing profiles (my new favorite hobby :P) i have seen many Doms/Masters say something along the lines of 'come be my slave sub and let me mould you into my perfect sub/slave. I will take the raw material and change it into my perfect little toy' i am, of course, paraphrasing.

My question i guess is this.

If you take the time to get to know someone thourally enough so that you can establish the level of trust neccissary for a realationship of this type and also ensure compatability, whats the point if you;re looking to completely alter that person anyway?
If you love, respect, like and trust your sub/slave why would you WANT to change him/her, beyond training?

Honestly im not trying to cause offense and if i have i sincerly apologuise. im not trying to insult anyones point of view, this is  just an honest question to discover something i don't already know :)

Regards
Purrin
xxx



Well, everyone has their own goals and kinks and life balances, but I would never look to someone who had that in their profile personally. I'm not a big fan of the idea of someone wanting to turn me into some facsimile of his or her ideal toy or doll. I'm a real person, and I'm looking for someone who wants me, the honest truth of who I am, and who is not just okay with me being a submissive woman, but who is delighted by that. I'm all about someone helping me have the courage to be more who I am. I'm all about someone who wants to guide growth, kind of like a gardner with a healthy thriving plant. What I don't much care for is someone who wants to chip up the plant, add some resin and pour it into a pre-made mold. One sounds like heaven, one sounds like hell to me.

To each their own, I'm sure some here absolutely long for the chopping and resin experience. :P

(in reply to usedandpurrin)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: I think too much :) - 2/12/2008 6:05:32 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		Oppisites attract. If they did not then there would be no need for CM. If anything you try to encourage your partner to be be the best that they can be.  Subtee you think to much. sweetwenchie stop it before you hurt yourself.

(in reply to WillowRain)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: I think too much :) - 2/12/2008 6:16:25 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		I'm feeling a little mixed on this thread this morning, because honestly I can see both sides of the coin here.   Those that want to be molded and those that do not.

Sure, it's nice to accept somebody for who and what they are.  Some people literally want to be completely shaped and molded, some don't and it builds resentment if you try. 

In terms of spending hours getting to know somebody inside and out, that's always a good thing regardless if you end up molding them or not.   It's best to know the type of clay you are working with.   So yes, it's even more important to know what kind of clay you have on your hands.

As it was already pointed out, trying to mold somebody can result in resentment.  The thing is knowing what makes the other person tick, often resentment can occur from some other stupid mental block or hangup.   This alone could make for a detailed thread.   

I will say this, the less molding one has to do.. the better off it is!  Basically, find somebody who has similar interests, mindsets and thoughts on life and everything else.  

What has amazed me are the human clays that want to mold themselves to be what you want without question.    They just sort of naturally want to morph into what you want.   That's another subject... Mighty Morphin Power Submissives. 

(in reply to usedandpurrin)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: I think too much :) - 2/12/2008 7:05:26 AM   
MusicalBoredom


Posts: 620
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: Louisiana/New York
Status: offline 		In my personal relationships, romantic or otherwise, I prefer people that I trust and am compatible with from the start.  So while little change is required we do all influence each other and grow (hopefully) on a slow but continual basis.  I can't see starting even a friendship much less something more with someone that I would feel the need to "fix" or change.  Of course I have tried that but I was a younger and more full of myself. (Life does tend to keep the ego in check lol.)

As far as submissives (romantic and otherwise) go, I tend to find the ones where there is some mutual attraction are based mostly on their desire to have boundaries and limits.  That is they are usually doing well in life and on their on journey but feel more at ease when they feel someone is there more like a guide rail on a bridge.  Admittedly the rail has barbs at times but sometimes you don't feel the rail otherwise.

Basically I have no desire to raise more children, especially of the adult variety.

D

(in reply to usedandpurrin)
Profile   Post #: 20
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