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subs/slaves?? - 7/12/2004 5:49:54 PM

knees2you

Posts: 2336
Joined: 3/15/2004
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Ok subs/slaves a question to ponder. What was it that you realized first??

Where You first a sub, but then realized You were a slave?

Or were You a slave and realized that you were a sub. What turned You from one to ther other, if You weren't always just one~?
You can ad if You switched more then twice~

Sincerely, eyesofAslave

quote:

"No I'm not affraid of Who's behind the door~"

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Post #: 1

RE: subs/slaves?? - 7/16/2004 8:25:39 PM

MasterMalicesage

Posts: 2
Joined: 1/13/2004
Status: offline

i think one will get many different replies as this question is pondered. Obviously, i can only speak for myself with this reply. my introduction to the lifestyle was honestly by accident and once the door was opened, i wasnt really sure what i was. my Master grabbed my hand, cleared the walkway, and has been by my side every step of the way. W/we are reaching our first year and it has been an eye opener. i never saw myself as the type of person to let someone else take conrol of me, yet somehow i cant imagine it any other way...Master considers me at the gate of where one is either a sub or slave; ready and willing to take that final step. So to answer, i think it was, and still is, a continous work in progress...
be well....sage

(in reply to knees2you)

Post #: 2

RE: subs/slaves?? - 7/16/2004 9:03:01 PM

angelthighhighs

Posts: 104
Joined: 5/29/2004
Status: offline

for me i think it depends on the relationship i'm in how much i trust the person. usually i start out more a sub...but as time goes on and the relationship deepens, so does my submission. to the point where i'm a slave and didn't even realise it.

but at the same rate if i feel he is holding back, not communicating, that there is something stopping the relationship from deepening, i too hold back. i'm still submissive, but i will not allow myself to deepen that submission to being a slave.

defense mechanizm i guess....

(in reply to MasterMalicesage)

Post #: 3

RE: subs/slaves?? - 7/18/2004 12:23:30 AM

kiki blue

Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline

I guess a lot of this would have to do with what you view a submissive and a slave to be.

At first, I thought of myself as submissive, because that's what everyone seemed to do.

Then, as I got to explore and understand myself and the nature of kink more, I started referring to myself as being submissive less and less.

I may occasionally have submissive tendencies, but they don't drive me.

If I must, I refer to myself as a slave. My preference within a relationship is to allow someone else to have the authority, and assosciate mostly with the Oriental style of slavery (ie Ottoman Empire, slave harems and the like).

The main difference I see between submissive and slave tendencies is what is it that floats your boat. But, they're my definitions as I understand them, probably only suited for me. I do try to make the point, as I did above, as to what style of slavery I draw from.

_____________________________

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

(in reply to angelthighhighs)

Post #: 4

RE: subs/slaves?? - 7/18/2004 9:31:18 PM

baileythorne

Posts: 264
Joined: 6/6/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiki blue

But, they're my definitions as I understand them, probably only suited for me.

Lables are a place to start a conversation as they can differ in meaning from person to person.

I tend to take an extreme view of the word slave: total ownership including financial control. The example I use most is this: if your Mistress decided to have you birth a child because she didn't want to carry it, you would have no choice in the matter. To me, that is a slave. And it is not a place I aspire to be.

When I first found the scene there seemd to be an implied "more is better" in the continum of bottom --> submissive --> slave. I now think any and all are a fine place to be. None is better. However, one is best for each.

--bailey
currently using the lable "service submissive"

_____________________________

Dance like no one's watching and
Love like you've never been hurt.

(in reply to kiki blue)

Post #: 5

RE: subs/slaves?? - 7/19/2004 3:50:16 AM

kiki blue

Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: baileythorne
I tend to take an extreme view of the word slave: total ownership including financial control.

I agree that that can be part of it, depending upon the people involved.

quote:

The example I use most is this: if your Mistress decided to have you birth a child because she didn't want to carry it, you would have no choice in the matter. To me, that is a slave. And it is not a place I aspire to be.

The thing about examples is that we can throw out anything at this point, and I don't see them as really being relevant. If your partner asked you to do that, then they probably didn't understand you very well.

Compatibility is of huge importance in any relationship. If your partner wants things from you that are just huge No-No's, then there's more at issue than the command.

Even though I most identify with being a slave rather than submissive, I'm not about to jump head first into a total control relationship with someone. I still want to be wooed

And I'd like to get to know the person first before I decide if they're someone I want to submit to, and someone I want to have own me.

Ensuring that the person I choose to be with has the same interests (outside of kink), morals, ethics and common goals as me is incredibly important. If I'm after a serious long term (hopefully life long, though I'm a realist) relationship, then they're not going to be people who may chop my legs off because I don't list that in my "checklist".

I look at prospective partners as people first, and let everything else follow.

quote:

When I first found the scene there seemd to be an implied "more is better" in the continum of bottom --> submissive --> slave. I now think any and all are a fine place to be. None is better. However, one is best for each.

I don't see that one leads to the other. I see them as being different choices available in the Kink Buffet (oh what a fun place to eat!). I don't see a slave as being deeper/better than a bottom or submissive person, it's just a different set of wiring.

_____________________________

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

(in reply to baileythorne)

Post #: 6

RE: subs/slaves?? - 7/19/2004 8:23:32 PM

baileythorne

Posts: 264
Joined: 6/6/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiki blue

quote:

ORIGINAL: baileythorne

The example I use most is this: if your Mistress decided to have you birth a child because she didn't want to carry it, you would have no choice in the matter. To me, that is a slave. And it is not a place I aspire to be.

The thing about examples is that we can throw out anything at this point, and I don't see them as really being relevant. If your partner asked you to do that, then they probably didn't understand you very well.

This example came from a woman who was the slave in a relationship where her Mistress did make this comment. The Mistress didn't follow through. The slave was teaching a class on her perception of slavery and used this as an example - because she viewed it as fair game.

My point is to discuss in detail what the lable means to you before committing to be "X" with someone as you may have very different views of what "X" means.

--bailey

_____________________________

Dance like no one's watching and
Love like you've never been hurt.

(in reply to kiki blue)

Post #: 7

RE: subs/slaves?? - 7/19/2004 8:26:53 PM

baileythorne

Posts: 264
Joined: 6/6/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiki blue

quote:

ORIGINAL: baileythorne
When I first found the scene there seemd to be an implied "more is better" in the continum of bottom --> submissive --> slave. I now think any and all are a fine place to be. None is better. However, one is best for each.

I don't see that one leads to the other. I see them as being different choices available in the Kink Buffet (oh what a fun place to eat!). I don't see a slave as being deeper/better than a bottom or submissive person, it's just a different set of wiring.

When I first found the scene, many people I interacted with did portray this as a path - and the futher you went down the path, the "better" you were.

Neither you or I believe that but I wanted to state it clearly, to possibly save some other newbie the trouble of finding this truth (all choices are valid) the hard way.

--bailey

< Message edited by baileythorne -- 7/19/2004 8:27:08 PM >

_____________________________

Dance like no one's watching and
Love like you've never been hurt.

(in reply to kiki blue)

Post #: 8

RE: subs/slaves?? - 7/20/2004 3:27:52 AM

kiki blue

Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: baileythorne
My point is to discuss in detail what the lable means to you before committing to be "X" with someone as you may have very different views of what "X" means.

Which just shows that compatibility is the most important thing. Making sure your outlooks and understandings align, along with everything else.

But with that example, if my owner were to say that, I'd honestly get excited lol.

_____________________________

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

(in reply to baileythorne)

Post #: 9

RE: subs/slaves?? - 7/29/2004 8:30:18 PM

pet4Mommy

Posts: 8
Joined: 7/29/2004
Status: offline

hmm this is a very good question. at first i thought i was a switch because i have always felt more comfortable with being told what to do then telling someone what to do, but my friends told me i was more of a Dom. i have never seen myself as Dom, i just cant picture it, and i could never get off on the pain of someone else. so why did i think i was a switch? well i dated many girls when i lived in Hawaii, and most of them wanted and ask me to pretend i was raping them. well i must say i didn't like the thought of that, and more less because i was abuse as a child. but over time being married 2 times and having so many women ask me to do it, i started to somewhat like it or i thought i did. but deep down, its not for me, and controlling or using someone is not something i feel comfortable with. i believe that i chose to be a slave because i rather enjoy serving and helping people. i get more pleasure giving something then taking it, or having something given to me. many of the dates i had thought i was strange because i never wanted oral back, and i didn't care for penetration. there are many reasons i guess, but i really desire to serve 100% with no strings attached. and i know that there will be hard times, and that my Domme may ask me to do thing i don't really want to do, but its a choice that im willing to make, and one that i desire to make. i enjoy a good challenge in life. if life is easy then its harder for me, as i have always had a rough and hard growing up. i will adapt, and i will learn, and i will be happy more and more when i am able to archive that of which my Domme chooses for me.

- slave

(in reply to knees2you)

Post #: 10

RE: subs/slaves?? - 8/5/2004 1:00:19 PM

NightDaughter

Posts: 264
Joined: 1/23/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

For me this totally dependeds on the Relationship, my first was that of M/s thus I was a slave, my second sub, my current I went sfrom sub to slave.

_____________________________

NightDaughter
My Blog - http://www.livejournal.com/users/nightdaughter/
"I never said that I could spell, but I do try my darndest to get my point across" - ND

(in reply to knees2you)

Post #: 11

RE: subs/slaves?? - 8/5/2004 1:05:43 PM

gitta

Posts: 110
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline

Hi knees,

For this one, was a slave for 26 years, Master died and eventually became a sub for a short time. Figured out i have the heart of a slave and being a sub did not suit me..so i am a slave and proud to be one.

smiles,
gitta

(in reply to knees2you)

Post #: 12

RE: subs/slaves?? - 8/5/2004 1:29:53 PM

LadyBeckett

Posts: 865
Joined: 2/4/2004
From: Scotland/Tennessee
Status: offline

I am obviously neither sub nor slave, however I believe I have something worthwhile to contribute to the thread, and so I shall.

I see this particular question/debate/discussion come up quite frequently, and with the same questions/debate/discussions to follow it. I have found that the actual definitions seem to vary according to the individual defining them, however, in my opinion, and my experience, it has not been about the "label" as much as it has been about the demonstration of service, sincerity, loyalty, communication, and growth within the relationship.

_____________________________

Lady Beckett

_______________________________________________

"Submissive boys yearn to fall into their proper place, so the rest of their life will." ~ Lady Beckett

(in reply to gitta)

Post #: 13

RE: subs/slaves?? - 8/8/2004 6:54:05 PM

darchart

Posts: 35
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline

Sorry this has taken me so long to respond..

I refer to myself as a submissive but I have a good friend who says in truth I am a slave..lol. I am not sure whether I am slave or submissive. I know only that in my heart and soul, if my Master asked or commanded something of me I would obey. I have never felt the need for a safeword or a restriction on anything he asked of me. I know in my heart that I could never tell him to stop something that was giving him pleasure. His pleasure brings me joy I cant begin to explain.
Does this make me a slave? I have limits, but so does Master. Does this make me a submissive?
Labels confuse me..

(in reply to LadyBeckett)

Post #: 14

RE: subs/slaves?? - 8/8/2004 11:37:25 PM

Estring

Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Yes it does

(in reply to darchart)

Post #: 15

RE: subs/slaves?? - 8/9/2004 7:12:49 AM

xasey

Posts: 12
Joined: 8/5/2004
Status: offline

I was at first, vanilla. Until I stumbled upon someone that pushed the bounds of Dominance in a vanilla relationship, and I was floored. After that, being the type of person I am I began to search for the reasons why this behavior caused me to react in such a way.

Then I called myself a submissive, and I found someone who wanted a submissive. Again I craved every bit this relationship had to offer. It wasn't too long before I found that although I was *loving* this, and feeling more alive and free each day, that I still needed more. My first Lady was a wonderful Domme, I do not fault her for this. I was still in a stage of discovery, and she helped me find what I needed, even tho it wasn't her and I doubt she knew she was helping.

Each relationship I've had up until now has shaped the way I now percieve myself (hasn't been only 2!). Now I consider myself a slave. I know that nothing less will free my heart to love and cherish the way I must. Nothing less will free my spirit to be who I am.

_____________________________

~Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,
and I'm not sure about the former. - Einstein~

(in reply to Estring)

Post #: 16

RE: subs/slaves?? - 8/9/2004 10:43:48 AM

robyn

Posts: 18
Joined: 8/8/2004
Status: offline

submissive: her will is to please her Master

slave: her will is her Master's will

-robyn

(in reply to xasey)

Post #: 17

RE: subs/slaves?? - 8/9/2004 11:26:26 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

Sorry this has taken me so long to respond..

I refer to myself as a submissive but I have a good friend who says in truth I am a slave..lol. I am not sure whether I am slave or submissive. I know only that in my heart and soul, if my Master asked or commanded something of me I would obey. I have never felt the need for a safeword or a restriction on anything he asked of me. I know in my heart that I could never tell him to stop something that was giving him pleasure. His pleasure brings me joy I cant begin to explain.
Does this make me a slave? I have limits, but so does Master. Does this make me a submissive?
Labels confuse me

sweetest darchart.

I can only respond in my personal view.
You are yourself, be that slave or submissive. Slaves have limits, but when they are owned, those limits belong to the Master. Submissives Have limits... and at some point... when they meet One they are bonded with, they consent to releasing the limits to the Master... very much like a slave. In my opinion... there is no real difference between a submissive and a consensual slave. They both have the desire to serve. They both have the desire to submit. They are just labels... its what is in your heart that makes you who you are. The One who you give over total control to may decide You are His slave... or His sub... or His pet... or His baby. But You are still essentially who you are. Be yourself, and leave labels to others who want to understand, but who are not open to learning that each person is unique and individual, Just like each relationship. Be true to yourself and to your limitations and your submission will flow freely as a river for One who accepts you as yourself. Embrace that labels exist, do not become restricted by a name, but blossom in your uniqueness.

Blessing upon your path.

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to darchart)

Post #: 18

RE: subs/slaves?? - 1/17/2005 10:22:27 PM

garylee

Posts: 38
Joined: 12/15/2004
From: from? iowa.....
Status: offline

''i'' never understood the difference in terms........
subs---slaves----all the damn same to me as i see it.
but i call myself a domestics service slave......24/7---365........

been doing it.....say.......i had 15 months r/t experience with 1 pro domme and now doing 90 days consideration for a non pro domme........
garylee

_____________________________

i see the world, i notice it is turning, as my guitar gently weeps.

(in reply to knees2you)

Post #: 19

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