RE: iwillserveu's observations - bring your own grains of salt[:)] (Full Version)

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trueneutral0 -> RE: iwillserveu's observations - bring your own grains of salt[:)] (7/17/2004 1:56:32 AM)

gives some salti tears so you'll shut up(skips off laughing)

[image]local://upfiles/37460/4C271CDB186A428DB0ECDC0E19F648F9.jpg[/image]



iwillserveu -> RE: iwillserveu's observations - bring your own grains of salt[:)] (7/17/2004 3:38:21 AM)

trueneutral0,

Depending on how you reply it might say (in reply to whomever posted last)

If you are going to tell someone to shut up please be clear who. As it is I'm not sure if you think I have no right to voice my opion or SherriA does. Please be clear in who you wish to insult.



iwillserveu -> RE: iwillserveu's observations - bring your own grains of salt[:)] (7/18/2004 6:44:27 AM)

If a poster posts a blatant ad hominem attack then they are giving their opponent the buckler of victimization. (A “buckler” is a small shield that can be used as a piece of metal strapped to the wrist. It can be a weapon and look totally defensive.

For instance:

Poster #1

What you fail realize is (good point #1) and you say (quote of opponent) but (refutation of quote #1).

Furthermore (good point #2) for example (good example #2).

Finally there is (good point #3).

Now does your little troglodyte mind understand?


Poster #2

My troglodyte mind understands a lot about people like you.


See what happened? Poster #2 never had to respond to any good points and poster #1 gets spattered with the mud poster #1 threw. If we look at it as boxing match, poster #1 won rounds 1-14, but in the fifteenth round Poster #2 knocked him/her out.

Moderators might get to this before it gets out of hand, but it is irrelevant IF POSTER TWO REPLIES he “wins”.



Sinergy -> RE: iwillserveu's observations - bring your own grains of salt[:)] (7/18/2004 11:07:58 AM)

quote:

See what happened? Poster #2 never had to respond to any good points and poster #1 gets spattered with the mud poster #1 threw. If we look at it as boxing match, poster #1 won rounds 1-14, but in the fifteenth round Poster #2 knocked him/her out.

Moderators might get to this before it gets out of hand, but it is irrelevant IF POSTER TWO REPLIES he “wins”.


I disagree with this for the following reasons, iwillserveu.

1) Poster #2 only "wins" in having the last word in the discussion. Most people reading the exchange are going to think poster #1 is actually in possession of some erudition, intelligence, and basic courtesy. On the other hand, Poster #2 is going to represent themselves to the audience as a simple-minded, abrasive, and ill-spoken cretin.

2) This is a message board where people can engage in intelligent discourse. It is not a war, a conflict, an argument, etc. People come to these places and post their opinions about certain subjects and either agree with or refute the stated beliefs ot other posters. To attempt to create conflict on the boards, pick fights, flame, stick one's tongue out at, etc., are something many people outgrew in grammar school. Some people did not do so, and have found a consequence free environment in which to portray their ill manners to the rest of mankind, secure in the knowledge that they cannot be punched in the nose for their obnoxious behaviors.

Just my opinion, but there ya go :)

Sinergy

p.s. It reminds me of a quote, and I apologize for the sexism in it, but the concept (removing the gender aspect) has some relation to the subject.

"A man cannot have the last word in an argument with a woman. When the man speaks after the woman, he is simply starting a new argument which she must respond to and have the last word."



muse -> RE: iwillserveu's observations - bring your own grains of salt[:)] (7/20/2004 1:17:26 PM)

quote:

You are a blooming idiot.

That is an insult. There is no ay to tell about that person's body language, etc. Fortunately their is something we can do about that. They are not perfect, but help.

You are a blooming idiot. [:)]





ok..what if i say.....you're a blooming onion....what face should i use then? *grins*



Sinergy -> RE: iwillserveu's observations - bring your own grains of salt[:)] (7/20/2004 2:16:06 PM)

On a related note, what if the name of a certain type of rare orchid which blooms once every 50 years is "idiot" to a certain Amazonian tribe?

To call somebody a "blooming idiot" would be one of the most wonderful compliments one could pay a member of that tribe.

Sinergy



dixiedumpling -> RE: iwillserveu's observations - bring your own grains of salt[:)] (7/20/2004 5:05:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixieunleashed


quote:

I cannot "make" someone mad at me or insult them,


I've read this a couple of times on different days and I still disagree. To say that you aren't responsible for the damage you do by what you say or do is naive at best. You cut someone off in traffic and they have to swerve onto the side of the road to avoid hitting you.. that isn't your fault that they get into a cussing jag? You tell someone to their face in a totally honest way all the things that you dislike about them.. you aren't responsible for their hurt feelings? Some things are better left unsaid.

Your attitude mirrors my spouse's uncle's. He is one of the most self-centered individuals I have ever known. Everything he has done in his life has been to make things better for himself. But his attitude is that if you are upset, it's your problem, not his. Even though he talked his mother out of the inheritance that was to be his sister's. She's upset? So what? It's her fault she allowed his greedy, self-absorbed actions to upset her. How silly of her.



SherriA -> RE: iwillserveu's observations - bring your own grains of salt[:)] (7/20/2004 5:43:29 PM)

There's a difference, I think, between "you make me feel...." and "when you do X, I feel Z...". The difference is significant.

I don't *make* anyone feel any way. I'm simply not that powerful or important. I could say the exact same thing to 5 different people and likely all 5 would react differently to it. And I should be responsible for each of those reactions and knowing how each individual would react to it? It simply doesn't compute, at least not for me.

When someone says/does something and I react to it, I'm responsible for my reactions. I can choose to get upset or let it roll off of me; I can get hurt, or I can accept that someone has an opinion that doesn't mesh with mine and give it little weight. It's always MY choice how I react though, not someone else's. I know this is true, because I do it every day.

So, when someone says to me "you make me feel....", I don't buy it.

Own your feelings... reactions..... emotions.



MistressDREAD -> RE: iwillserveu's observations - bring your own grains of salt[:)] (7/20/2004 6:02:25 PM)

OHHH MYYY JAHHH
there is sooooooooo much humor here
Its become an addiction not to read
certain persons words just so I can
start My day with a smile a laugh or
a belly boiler. Yes I admit that I do
use certain peoples words here to
establish how My personnna will be
for the day based off of what I have
to face and what frame of mind I
need to be focused in: [Light hearted,
Professional, Bitch, Motherly, Elitist.]



pixieunleashed -> RE: iwillserveu's observations - bring your own grains of salt[:)] (7/24/2004 11:21:03 AM)

quote:

To say that you aren't responsible for the damage you do by what you say or do is naive at best.


quote:

You tell someone to their face in a totally honest way all the things that you dislike about them.. you aren't responsible for their hurt feelings?


quote:

Your attitude mirrors my spouse's uncle's. He is one of the most self-centered individuals I have ever known


quote:

It's her fault she allowed his greedy, self-absorbed actions to upset her. How silly of her.




Wow, thanks for responding back directly to me [:)] I didn't realize you did, otherwise I would've posted sooner. I think it is nice when people read what you write and respond back to you specifically. It gives a kind of validating feeling, even if someone disagrees with you, that what you wrote moved them enough to become pro-active and respond to you. And while given the emotional undertones of your posting, I don't think you were looking to elicit happy feelings from me, I chose to take you just posting back to me in a positive manner. You are not responsible for my happy mood. It is mine, my doing, however, since you are responsible for posting to me, and the posting flattered me, I say thank you for the posting anyway.

I agree with you, I am self-centered, according to me, I am the most important person in my life, and my world revolves around me. I hope that you are self-centered as well, and I hope everyone I know is.

Doormat personalities live their lives revolving around other people's happiness, never achieving their own, always waiting for someone else to make tlhem happy. The problem with this ideal is, that nobody can know what makes someone else happy. I cannot know what makes anybody happy or sad, or whatever, as I am not them, everything that comes to me, runs through my filters, and my own emotoinal responses. I can project what I see could make them happy, but I dont truley know. Even if I could step inside the other person and feel their emotions I still wouldn't know, because I would still be me.

Let's look at the traffic incident. Let's say, I am the person being cut off.

Someone cuts me off, I have a choice, first, to allow it. I can choose if I want to end this whole matter, and hit them, or I can choose to be defensive in my driving and swerve off the road. Lets say, because I value my life, I choose to swerve off the road. After the initial feeling of panic subsides, I have other choices. I can now choose to get angry at the rudeness of that person, "how dare they cut me off!!...etc.." and go into a cursing jag. ( just thought, that is some pretty self absorbed behavior right there as well, who am I to expect to not be cut off in traffic?) Anyway, I can also choose to revel in my awesome driving abilities, that I was aware enough to not be involved in an accident and I can be grateful to the person cutting me off for the wonderful opportunity to show off my surperb reflexes. No matter how I take this internally, the person that cut me off is still just thinking of getting to their destination and they don't care a whit about how I am feeling, they probably are unaware they cut me off in the first place.

Funny thing you should mention about telling people how you honestly feel about them, as I have just started doing that and am finding it very liberating. I have over this last summer, started telling people how I feel about them regardless of if it is positive or negative. I am compassionate about it and I do not use accusatory language that "blames" them. I have been thanked more than I have had negative responses since I started this. People that hear me openly critique them, or their performance, are grateful to me because I leave them a stepping stone, in which they can improve themselves.

Looking at you labeling your husband's uncle, reminds me of a saying, not sure if I made it up or if someone else did...Instead of calling someone something, you would have a truer statement if you say I am that something. People are just mirrors to ourselves. If you see your husband's uncle as greedy and self-absorbed, chances are, you see yourself that way also, maybe you have some feelings on that issue you have not quite finished with.

thank you for reading this, and I hope you have a great day,

pixie



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