quote:

ORIGINAL: Sundowner

I've just asked advice from a subbie friend and it occurs to me that there's a bigger experienced pool of help available here. And it occurs to me I may not be alone with my problem. So a cut and paste of my mail (long I know, but if you've limited time you won't read it and you won't spend time responding):
 
"Bugger sending little notes - it's the agony aunt deal for you young lady because I need advice!

Life's tough for Doms (at least the wannabes like me). My problem is that my natural instinctive approach to ladies is courteous consideration (and ignore the fact that I am actually probaly rude and uncaring - I'm a bloke after all). So with a subbie my tendency is cautious, polite good manners - in conversation, in the restaurant and in the bedroom.

And a horror of going too far and frightening the poor girl. [With me so far?]

For some girls this is useless - they want a dominant alpha male who treats them like dirt and for them gentle consideration is a real turn-off. For others, especially the newbies, it's great; they can explore the delights of bdsm while feeling (reasonably) safe.

Once I've got to know a treat-me-harshly girl life gets easier - if one knows the subbie's enjoying stuff it's exciting (and deeply emotionally bonding) to treat her severely.

But with the still-exploring girl it's more difficult because one wants to stretch her limits without putting her off Doms for life. So I look for feedback - watching for the winces, getting her to count strokes out loud so I can judge the degree of "ouch" in her voice, listening for the breathing or moaning sounds of excitement.

Which is fine as long as the subbie gives feedback (as most do); not so easy when there's next to nothing to work on. Which brings me to my current difficulty. I've just played with a delightful girl who's still fairly new to bdsm. She likes it and it shows - a pussy wetter than a wet thing within minutes of our starting play. But none of the things I've mentioned as indicators.

She was here for four days and there's no question she loves submission and punishment - she wanted bondage and spanking in firm preference to vanilla sex (it just occurs to me that could be because I'm bad at vanilla sex, but let's move on). A couple of times, however, I went a touch too far and she said stop. No drama - she still loved it all, just that I'd reached a (current) limit.

And chatting about things afterwards she simply said it was all great; no problems; wonderfully exciting and fulfilling etc etc simply a stroke which was a bit painful, no probs etc. But, for me, if a subbie feels she has to say stop I've failed.

So at last to the point.
 
How do I gauge where she is? Mentally and physically? What can I look for, what can I do to ensure as far as possible she's on a steadily increasing high, bubbling around just below her limit at times, taking that carefully further without ever actually reaching her limit (however gentle that might be)? And of course it's not about trying to get a girl to suffer more and more pain; it's about taking her to whatever for her is a peak, to try for maximum excitement and fulfilment (whether that's a mild smack or a harsh whipping, whether it's situational context or physical sensation, or both). What do I do when playing with a sub who can't, or won't, or anyway doesn't, give during play the feedback I currently look for? And this is not just one girl - it's happened before with (fortunately not many) others who just "stand and take it" with no obvious physical or vocal guides. And I assume such girls aren't mindless gits; for them the act of simply standing, kneeling or whatever and just taking it is how they like a scene.

So there you go - you said I could mail you and you'd reply. Now you've got to deliver. Help me out and change my life young lady.

And to be clear we're not looking for brief responses. We're into comprehensive papers of a depth and incisiveness sufficient to win you the Nobel Prize for Helping Doms."

Once I was able to get past your use of the term "subbie" what I read from your question is:
That you are concerned about being able to take someone far but not too far and that you worry because some are vocal and some are not, so how would you know?. 

1.  In the setting and situation you describe> I do not think it  unusual for a submissive to use a safeword or say stop.  I do not think it is  a failing on your part, either.  You might not have even reached her limit but she was unsure about what to expect and so stopped it. 

2.  Communication is essential..prior to  and also afterward.  That is when talking can happen.  Expecting sub to communicate verbally during> might not happen.  Personally, I cannot always form understandable words NOR do I want to have to>>  pops me right out of my headspace..as they say.  Sometimes I get very quiet, sometimes I am loud and vocal and that is within the same person..ME...  so different submissives will bring different situations for you to decipher and deal with .

3.  Watching and observation of everything is the role of the dominant/top and part of the delicious control, imo..  You seem to already acknowledge that and are watching the breathing, flinches and ProlificNeeds had an excellent post, imo, about all of that.

YOU stopping your actions to check sub or pause or take a pulse or cooling down your actions and then rebuilding>> most likely won't alter the submissives experiencing all you want them to be able to experience.  speaking personally again now> I consider it part of his control and it doesnt interrupt my headspace at all.  It all just blends in as what it is HE does to me and for me.

if that makes sense, : )    I hope.

quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

... I've almost always appreciated being given direction.  Wanting to please is very much a part of my makeup and I'm very receptive to instructions if they're delivered with a little care.  But it's also been hard for me to learn to speak up about what I'd like.  A good part of the reason has to do with not wanting to feel like I'm controlling, but there's also a worry that my comments might be taken as criticism.  (Men have such fragile egos, don't you know.  ) But in general, there's a very large part that fears exposure and rejection. 

I don't believe I'm too unusual in these respects, so my "holiday gift" to dominants would be to offer the following suggestions when plumbing the depths of your pet's sexual/kinky secrets... be it to pleasure her/him, or yourself. 

(Not to discount any relationship configuration, but I'll be referring to the dominant role as male and the submissive as female from here on out... it's what I'm familiar with.)

1)  Go slowly.  No matter what your level of activity is, take things slowly.  Explore and take time to really learn each others responses... but more important, take time to enjoy where you are at now and at each level before you race off to the next thrill.  Oh, and  don't forget to revisit those levels you've surpassed... just because your sub can now tolerate a stiff beating, it doesn't mean that she can't still enjoy an erotic and "gentle" spanking.

2)  Ask questions.  You don't need to make her feel like she's being interrogated (unless she likes that ), but never assume anything.  Talk to her before, during and after.  Make every effort to really listen to her answers... not only what she says, but how she says it.  Ask her about what she knows and understands about the male body.  Ask what she feels...is she comfortable... is it too rough/not rough enough... what is she thinking... what is she expecting.  Find out everything you can... knowledge is power.

3)  Don't judge.  It may be a soul wrenching confession for her to tell you that she wants x, y, or z.  Treat her openness with respect and care, and you'll only encourage her to become even more transparent to you.

4)  Reassure.  If she's submitted or admitted to something that she's either not sure about or might be embarrassed about (you know this because you've asked - see #2 above), make sure she knows that you are pleased and that she will not be rejected.  Even if it's not perfect, reassure her that her efforts alone have pleased you.

5)  Empathize.  Put yourself in her position... not literally, but consider how things are from her viewpoint and use that information.  If you're wanting the world's best blowjob, expecting her to accomplish that while dealing with the distraction of an uncomfortable position might be asking too much.  Again, it's more information and that is more power. 

6)  Teach.  No one knows your body better than you do.  Share with her what she needs to know (you know what she's lacking because you've asked questions - see #2 above).  Tell her where to touch, and how, and when... and what to expect.  Have a "dom exploration day" where she can learn what pleases you from the top of your head to the toes of your feet.  Once more, knowledge is power and you're giving your sub the power to please you. ("Commanding" a reciprocal "sub exploration day" would be an easy follow-up... after all, you've set the example for what you want to know about her.)

7)  Control intensity.  If you are truly looking to pleasure your submissive, here's where you really need all that information you've gathered (see #2 above) and more.  While a submissive might enjoy a particular activity, it doesn't mean they'll enjoy that same activity at a higher intensity.  There's a huge difference between enjoying something and tolerating it.  Keep asking (see #2 above).

8)  Positively reinforce.  Praise goes a long way toward encouraging the behavior and activities that you want.  If she's pleased you, let her know.  If she does something that knocks your socks off, make damn sure she knows about it.   You'll be glad you did.  

9)  Correct gently.  This is a broad generalization and may not apply to all subs, but submissives have a tendency to be very sensitive... especially when it comes to pleasing their dominant.  Use criticism (even the so-called constructive type) sparingly and avoid it if at all possible.  You've many other tools (see #1 through #8 above) that you can use before resorting to the potential damage that a poorly worded or timed criticism can do.

10)  Timing is everything.  Unfortunately, it's also the one thing that I can't give you a specific answer on.  So much depends upon the activity and what needs to be said.  All I can tell you is that you should never allow an issue to go unresolved for any great period of time... especially if it concerns an activity that has been performed repeatedly.  I promise you that nothing will crush your submissive's spirit faster than to sit her down, after several months and countless blowjobs, to give her instruction on how to please you orally.  All she's going to do is spend the entire time reeling with thoughts that you've "put up" with her inferior performance for all this time, speculating about the dissatisfaction you've felt with her, and wondering what other failings of hers are you simply tolerating.  Not a good thing.

Best wishes and happy holidays to all!

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee

Wow, what a sweet guy…what a sweet thread!  It’s so nice to see a guy, even one who has experience, open himself up and allow his earnestness to show.
MsB

quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds

For me I know I 'turn off' externally for repetative pain if it's too rythemic. Once I aquire the warm steady burn it sort of flows together and I don't get that knee-jerk reaction anymore to individual sensations. Breaking up rythem and pattern though makes me anticipate, and tension for me seems to do the trick. 'Waiting' and not knowing where the next sensation will come from often makes me react. The more off balance I am, the more I react.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sundowner

It's not about control, daddysliloneds, it's about wanting a submissive to get satisfaction from the activity. And if she says "stop" it means I've gone a bit too far, or I've made her nervous, and so whatever we're doing is less satisfying for her. And my role (or at least my aim) is for her to have as much pleasure and fulfilment as I can give and achieving that gives me pleasure and a feeling of fulfilment too. And I don't want to disappoint her, so I've failed.

Not dramatically, gut-wrenchingly never meet again failed, but at least not given her the satisfaction I'd like her to have. So it's not about me winning brownie points either, nor about searching for perfection, it's just me wanting to get better at giving a girl pleasure.