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To profit off suffering… - 2/16/2008 11:40:04 AM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Well, I've been applying for internships for this summer.  Some of my friends in the field were practically praising a company who's trying to hire more of us.  This company is offering a lot of money (for a college student).  Including a starting bonus that'd cover my tuition for next semester!  40% of their senior staff is to retire over the next several years, so they're preparing new hires for rapid promotions.  They're offering housing for us, work hours appropriate to our schedules (and full time over the summer), etc.

Great, right?  Yes, it's awesome!  I couldn't have asked for anything better.  One problem: they're Phillip Morris.  (Big tobacco company in the US.)

If I accept the offer, there's a chance I can get a pretty reasonable position in a strong company early on.  There's also a very probable chance that I'll get great pay and good experience for a resume.  Still, though.. my profiting will come at the health of others.  I doubt that the money will be worth the loss of self respect.

I am not asking for advice or morality.  PS-  While I started out with my own story, I'm not interested in a thread centered around me or what I can do.  It's just an introduction into the theme.  While the theme's relevant to my life right now, I'm more interested with it in general.

What I am asking is this:  Has anyone else been in such a position before?  (Not necessarily with an internship, not even necessarily with a job.. but where one's work, while very much legal, would be of questionable morality though profitable.)   What did they do?

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 2/16/2008 11:42:28 AM >
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RE: To profit off suffering… - 2/16/2008 11:57:43 AM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		If you think taking the job is selling out, don't take the job.


(in reply to CuriousLord)
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RE: To profit off suffering… - 2/16/2008 12:03:51 PM   
MissHarlet


Posts: 2728
Joined: 9/11/2005
From: El Paso , TX US
Status: offline 		If it makes you question your morals or integrity by working there .. I would say dont work there.  Money and jobs arent everything ..... while they make things easier .. you still have to live with what you think is right and look at yourself in the mirror ... I was in that postion when I was in my early 20s..... took the job .. and hated it and myself the entire 5 years I worked there.... I wound up sabatoging myself and quitting not having accomplished all that I could have .. so all the angst was for naught...... would I do it again ... NO........it was wasted time ....

_____________________________

Protectress of hearts/souls of all submissives calling Bounty's Place home, by order of Bounty~Proprietor

To be respected you must be respectful, to be loved you must be willing to love,
to be trusted you must be willing to trust.

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RE: To profit off suffering… - 2/16/2008 12:04:35 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		When I was younger I was offered a job at the Inland Revenue. It went against my personal ethics so I declined. Also I hate counting things, any form of counting I hate. I doubt Philip Morrison would give you the freedom to come up with unbiased answers somehow. That could however be my cynical attitude to big corporations and the way they buy scientists to prove their PR nonsense.

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RE: To profit off suffering… - 2/16/2008 12:05:36 PM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I don't know. This is still (considered) to be a free country. Making and selling, (and even smoking in some instances) is still legal.
If you don't take the job, will people still continue to smoke?
Another thing to consider is this; there have been some very immoral people who work there, who would lie and deceive people about the tests the company had done and the results. You could possibly, someday be in a position to help steer the company to be run in a more ethical manner. I don't have a problem with what the company makes and sells, just how they deceived people.
Perhaps you could discourage that type of behaviour?
Very interesting dilemna.
I'd be tempted to accept the position.
But hey, I still think people should have a right to make their own decisions. I'm weird like that.

~Christina

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


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RE: To profit off suffering… - 2/16/2008 12:07:00 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Good post, Christina.

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: To profit off suffering… - 2/16/2008 12:08:05 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		A similar situation CL

I was offered, and took a job with a company that was paying a lot more than I earned formerly. However, it soon became apparent that the guy running the company was a fraudster who made his money by not paying suppliers and dragging them through the courts, delaying the payments. Several suppliers went bust (which was the intention from the start) - OK, its a risk of business, but when its done deliberately and when its effects are not just to take out a company, but also trickle down to people losing their homes, its unacceptable.

I wanted desperately to get out of there quickly. I knew what was going on after a month and was trying everything to get out of there - but I was in the position of having taken a new mortgage at the time, the insurance for which only kicked in after six months. At six months, I persuaded the boss to make my job redundant - so I got out and got my mortgage insurance.

The moral of the story was that personally I couldnt bear to be part of something that was destroying lives, however good the pay. And that whatever mistake I had made, unwittingly as it was made, I had to grit my teeth and bear it for the sake of my family, the moral of that being that despite my ethics, when it came down to it I was about me and mine. An interesting learning experience is what I got from it in the end. As well as phone threats from the IRA, but thats another aspect of the story.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: To profit off suffering… - 2/16/2008 12:10:02 PM   
MistressVnus


Posts: 1036
Joined: 1/4/2008
From: Central Florida
Status: offline 		Wow, CL.....I'm impressed that you are even having this discussion with yourself.

I think it was Al Gore's family who were traditional tobacco farmers and had tons of property in the Carolinas (or somewhere in there).   Ends up,  his sister, I think it was, became a smoker and died of lung cancer.
The family stopped farming tobacco.  Right then and there.   Of course, the flip side to that is that they had already make their money prior to this and really were innocent as to the effects of tabacco at that time.   And, in your corner, everyone is aware of the effects of smoking now, so to do so is a conscious decision one makes for themselves.  Just like drinking.
In any event, this is a decision that may affect you for the rest of your life, one way or the other.  Think on it long and hard and don't let anybody else sway your decision.  This is about what "you" can live with.  Not anyone else. 


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In the ties that bind,
Mistress Venus
http://www.mistressvenus.com

"I'm not IN the lifestyle. The lifestyle is in Me!"

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RE: To profit off suffering… - 2/16/2008 12:12:04 PM   
MissHarlet


Posts: 2728
Joined: 9/11/2005
From: El Paso , TX US
Status: offline 		Good points Christina ......I also believe that people have the right to make their choices to smoke or not etc ........

All I could relate were how my choices affected my past ...... hopefully other peoples choices will not be as frustrateing or " dramatic"

_____________________________

Protectress of hearts/souls of all submissives calling Bounty's Place home, by order of Bounty~Proprietor

To be respected you must be respectful, to be loved you must be willing to love,
to be trusted you must be willing to trust.

(in reply to xxblushesxx)
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RE: To profit off suffering… - 2/16/2008 12:16:45 PM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I am not a smoker, but I do enjoy my Bacardi, probably not for long though, I figure prohibition will be put back into effect soon.
(so I drink a LOT to make up for all I will miss when it goes into effect!) *lol*

~Christina

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to MissHarlet)
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RE: To profit off suffering… - 2/16/2008 12:31:13 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		Companies are out to make money not act with morality. I don't know why anyone would fall for the type of nonsense that an oil company may give out in terms of pretending it is looking for alternative energy sources or how tobacco companies are thinking of people’s health and trying to reduce the harmful effects of smoking. Half of the chemicals in cigarettes are either there as preservatives or to anesthetise your throat for a smooth smoking experience.
 
 
Companies only change from being forced to through government regulation. Does anyone really believe car manufacturers would cut CO2 output on their products if it wasn't for regulations? No one inside a company is ever going to dare go against popular thoughts and opinions within that company. The dividend it provides to shareholders is all it is ever going to care about.

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Memory Lane...been there done that.

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RE: To profit off suffering… - 2/16/2008 12:44:13 PM   
DesertRat


Posts: 2774
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: NM/USA
Status: offline 		I'm faced with this dilemma every day, but I put it to rest years ago. Talking heart to heart with some good friends and respected colleagues helped. I am pretty much doing work, albeit occasionally indirectly, for the military, energy companies, or (the most entertaining government clown show imaginable) the Dept. of Homeland Security. I almost always dislike what I'm helping my clients do but I figure if I don't do it someone else will, and that someone else might not be as considerate of the resources as I am. There's more to it than that...lots of side issues and nuances, but that's the gist of it.

Bob

_____________________________

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro--Hunter S. Thompson
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide!--Chief Dead St. Knockout, 1933, Liverpool
Damn the crops. I'll only find peace at the end of a rope.--Winston Van Loo, 1911

(in reply to CuriousLord)
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RE: To profit off suffering… - 2/16/2008 12:55:16 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		CL, I hear the Land Mine companies are hiring.

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: To profit off suffering… - 2/16/2008 1:05:35 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		It's kind of funny, you know.  It's so easy to hate people for making a huge profit off questionable actions, yet when you're actually given the choice, it's really quite tempting.  It's also far too easy to try to rationalize it.

(in reply to CuriousLord)
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RE: To profit off suffering… - 2/16/2008 1:11:13 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		It's a good point, when you bring up for you and yours.  Because that's sort of the question I have to face.

It will be better for me, and for those I care most about, if I take this job.  And truth is that, at some point, I am human.. that if I accept this job, it'll probably go heavily towards promoting those who I care about most (myself included).

On the other hand, it'll overall do damage to humans in general.  Which is bad, if I value human life.

So who am I?  Am I me or am I a human?  Do I care about myself and my family more than people in general?  Because even if I do care about people in general, that doesn't mean I can't care about myself more.  And I am an animal; it's only this intellectual aspect to me that contests it, and while it's contest is strong, it's not even fully unified.

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RE: To profit off suffering… - 2/16/2008 1:11:23 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		Cl, and virtually everything hurts someone, if you look hard enough.  IF you take any job you will be paying taxes to support the war, ect.  Spend the time you waste on here helping people in real life, if you want to feel a feeling of virtue.  Take the job and volunteer to tutor disadvantaged kids, or something.  All of us choose to spend our capital on selfish pleasures while others starve and suffer, simply by being here. 

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RE: To profit off suffering… - 2/16/2008 1:11:40 PM   
Loveisallyouneed


Posts: 348
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		CL, you are already profiting from suffering.

Morris pays taxes which are used to pay for all sorts of things. Does 'dirty money' come clean if laundered by the government?

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RE: To profit off suffering… - 2/16/2008 1:16:28 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Yeah, I can sympathize with Gore there actually.

I want this job in the respect that it would certainly be satisfying.  It wouldn't be satisfying to pass it by.  I'd feel shitty if I gave it up, and the fact that it's the right thing to do would be little comfort.

The situation isn't as dire as Omelas, but it feels similar in sentiment even if not in extent.

(in reply to MistressVnus)
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RE: To profit off suffering… - 2/16/2008 1:18:36 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed

CL, you are already profiting from suffering.

Morris pays taxes which are used to pay for all sorts of things. Does 'dirty money' come clean if laundered by the government?


No, but the difference is that I can't control that.  But this?  This I have a definate choice in.

(in reply to Loveisallyouneed)
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RE: To profit off suffering… - 2/16/2008 1:18:46 PM   
Sundowner


Posts: 2549
Joined: 3/11/2007
Status: offline 		Sheesh CL - take the job.

Remember there are still people like me who have smoked all their lives, enjoy it hugely and want to continue that enjoyment. (Yes, yes, yes - with due consideration for others and (thank you world) standing in the rain at times so you can enjoy clean air warmth indoors).

Go for it kid.

(in reply to Loveisallyouneed)
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