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Protection of what is yours? or interfering control freak? - 2/17/2008 10:11:23 AM

BlueHnS

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This is purely a hypothetical situation, but I'm curious as to how far the protection of "what is mine" extends for other individuals. Ones family, home and car are a given for most. But what about your friends .. can they make thier own decisions or do they need your help?
A new dominant is invited to your circle. You feel something is "off" about the individual. You can see the flaws and cracks in thier armor, but it would appear that you are the only one. The individual is slick and seems to be able to say all the right things earning esteem in your group. Time passes. The chinks grow larger. The individual is prone to giving long dissertations on the multitude of things they "will NOT do", then turns around to do just that, always with a seeming legit reason for doing a 180 turn in thier values. Within 6 months they have blown through 3 girls always altering thier own behaviors to keep the girls happy for a moment. It is described away as it wasn't a good match or something equally reasonable.( I would surmise the reason it wasn't a good match is because the submissive was looking for a dominant, not one they could bend to thier will, and it's my example!) As part of this scenario do you say something to your friends ... or do you just sit back and watch waiting to see how long it will take for everyone else to catch on?

_____________________________

Questions are dangerous, for they have answers. ~ Kushiel's Dart
I think I'm going to get off. ~ The Poet

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RE: Protection of what is yours? or interfering control... - 2/17/2008 10:16:29 AM

Kana

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Joined: 10/24/2006
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My bet is people are already talking.
In My area the "community" is pretty small and tight and know each other well. Its kind of like a dysfunctional playground in some ways.
When someone new pops up they are the subject of considerable scrutiny and their behavior is commented upon, and often judged.

(in reply to BlueHnS)

Post #: 2

RE: Protection of what is yours? or interfering control... - 2/17/2008 10:16:58 AM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
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One thing I really admire about my friends is their ability to make their own decisions, to support their own ideas/dreams/opinion, and their ability to take care of themselves.

With that said, given the scenario you have presented, I do nothing unless they SPECIFICALLY ASK for my OPINION on this person. And then, I only give my opinion and nothing else.

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If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to BlueHnS)

Post #: 3

RE: Protection of what is yours? or interfering control... - 2/17/2008 10:24:26 AM

LadyHathor

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Joined: 1/2/2008
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Wow Blue, this one hits close to home in and out of the life--I have never been one to tell My friends what to do or not do, if they seek advice they will get that, delievered in a pro and con way, not--you need to do blah blah blah--its their moccasins to walk in--yet during these two years since My Mom died ( even though everyone knew I was the avowed head of the family) they seemed to feel the need to step in and tell Me what I was doing wrong, where I was failing and how to put My life on the right path, eeverything from religion to raising My teen UM to managing money---WTF??? When I awoke from the fog of grief, I was angry, not at them but at Me for allowing it to happen and for letting it affect Me---no more now baby.

As for the life, I had a slave that I brought here who tried to sell Me on the "the way the old ways were", "the way things should be done" " that he simply could not continue with out more play" etc etc etc---his ass hit the train seat so fastm it took off like a superliner--

Now as for someone in the life, again that is not My place to judge, or to correct, because, well whats your thing may not be Mine--if someone asks for advice, again I give the pro and con and let them decide--I would however remove Myself or distance Myself from close proximity--even though I nay not agree or judge, it doesn't mean I want to be colored by that light.

_____________________________

Lady Hathor, I am the Mistress Hathor of Orleans, I am what I am, often to the dismay and discomfort of others.

(in reply to BlueHnS)

Post #: 4

RE: Protection of what is yours? or interfering control... - 2/17/2008 10:24:56 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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You sit back- it's fairly likely that the dom will burn himself out in a few years anyway. Every local scene has these types. If girls didn't get attracted to that sort of thing, they wouldn't get involved with him. Stay out of it.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to IrishMist)

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RE: Protection of what is yours? or interfering control... - 2/17/2008 10:32:15 AM

batshalom

Posts: 1990
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueHnS

A new dominant is invited to your circle. You feel something is "off" about the individual. You can see the flaws and cracks in thier armor, but it would appear that you are the only one.

Perhaps more than any other self-presentational goal, we want others to like us. To create an image of likability we may express our liking for others, verbally and non-verbally, or point out / create similarities with others. Thus, it's not unusual to not make waves when it seems like you're "the only one" who notices something.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueHnS

do you say something to your friends ... or do you just sit back and watch waiting to see how long it will take for everyone else to catch on?

If it were me, I would probably say something to a couple people casually. It is very likely that the others have noticed something odd but think they're "the only one" who has this niggly negative feeling.

(in reply to BlueHnS)

Post #: 6

RE: Protection of what is yours? or interfering control... - 2/17/2008 10:38:28 AM

softness

Posts: 2918
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From: Leeds, UK
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If you has spotted .. so will others.

It is a difficult line to tread, because if you have this guy wrong then you can cause a load of drama that is not your business to create.

If it was me, I would hold my opinions to myself, if people *directly* involved (for instances the girls involved) came to me for advice then depending on my relationship with them I might dicuss my concerns, but only if I thought it would be a postive contribution and not scare mongering or plain gossiping.

< Message edited by softness -- 2/17/2008 10:39:30 AM >

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

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RE: Protection of what is yours? or interfering control... - 2/17/2008 10:46:39 AM

Kana

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There are very few things in life that can make one more unpopular than the offering of unsolicited opinions.
If asked I say what I think, otherwsie, none of my business.
The one criteria that alters that if a safety issue is involved, then I may be obligated to say something.

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 8

RE: Protection of what is yours? or interfering control... - 2/17/2008 11:26:57 AM

LadyLolly

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Joined: 5/21/2005
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Question, in this hypothectical situation, are the values and 180's that shift, ethical considerations or what?

What I've found is those newer to all this can be very quick to say I'd never do X, Y or Z and then as they gain more exposure and understanding, do change thier positions frequently. Often the changes can be attributed to personal growth rather than just inconsistancies and the story of the day.

Just as submissives take time to mature and come to terms with themselves, so do fledgling dominants. With access to the collective knowledge of a group it may well be thier horizons have become much broader exponentially. Once they've considered new material, thier position may very well change from the preconcieved.
With a submissive it's often percieved as a new level of submission. With a dominant, perhaps viewed more harshly as being wishy washy and inconsistant while in reality they are struggling with coming into thier own and maturing. There is pressure put on a dominant to "appear" to have thier poo together, be perfect, know thier own mind to be, well, dominant. When you meet a mature dominant, they tend to be much more laid back, have little or nothing to prove, are comfortable with themselves, more consistant. It takes time to get there. Could this hypothetical dominant just be suffering from growing pains?

(in reply to BlueHnS)

Post #: 9

RE: Protection of what is yours? or interfering control... - 2/17/2008 11:32:14 AM

BlackPhx

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For me whats mine extends to exactly that, Master, his immediate family, my surviving son and his family, our pets and the few people I call family not friends because they are closer than than. I will do what ever I can to protect them, and I will gladly talk with them about anything they bring up to me, but I won't tell them what to do, I can only suggest possible options.

I will be there as a shoulder should they need to cry and ear should they need to talk. I can and will share what I have learned in a long and complicated life, but ultimately choices are theirs and they will make their mistakes and successes, just as I do. You can't really warn anyone away from someone else if they have their hearts and minds set on them. You can just be there to help pick up the pieces, hopefully not literally. Youcan make information available, but you really can't make them think. If they ask however, you can offer your opinion, including the one about consistency and sub hopping.

poenkitten

(in reply to BlueHnS)

Post #: 10

RE: Protection of what is yours? or interfering control... - 2/17/2008 12:10:06 PM

lateralist1

Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline

I really don't like generalisations but I do feel that there is a tendency for dominant women to be seen in one light and dominant men to be seen in a very different light.
I am constantly trying to tell everyone what they are doing wrong I'm afraid.
Why ? Because I am trying to prevent them from making disasterous mistakes.
Risk assessments have been an essential part of my work life for 14 years.
It's difficult to stop.
I agree that people grow in the 'lifestyle' and the nature of dominance is fluid and individual.
I went to my local munch and a Domme I was sitting by told me to take my tobacco off the table. I could have said no. It just wasn't worth it. If it made her feel good to 'dominate' me fair enough. It didn't hurt me. It just showed me something about her dominant personality. I shall not be making friends with her.

(in reply to BlackPhx)

Post #: 11

RE: Protection of what is yours? or interfering control... - 2/17/2008 12:18:02 PM

Noah

Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLolly

Question, in this hypothectical situation, are the values and 180's that shift, ethical considerations or what?

What I've found is those newer to all this can be very quick to say I'd never do X, Y or Z and then as they gain more exposure and understanding, do change thier positions frequently. Often the changes can be attributed to personal growth rather than just inconsistancies and the story of the day.

Just as submissives take time to mature and come to terms with themselves, so do fledgling dominants. With access to the collective knowledge of a group it may well be thier horizons have become much broader exponentially. Once they've considered new material, thier position may very well change from the preconcieved.
With a submissive it's often percieved as a new level of submission. With a dominant, perhaps viewed more harshly as being wishy washy and inconsistant while in reality they are struggling with coming into thier own and maturing. There is pressure put on a dominant to "appear" to have thier poo together, be perfect, know thier own mind to be, well, dominant. When you meet a mature dominant, they tend to be much more laid back, have little or nothing to prove, are comfortable with themselves, more consistant. It takes time to get there. Could this hypothetical dominant just be suffering from growing pains?

Yeah, sure the example is hypothetical. My response, as you'll note, is in French.

I suggest the OP print out the above post and tape it to the communal dungeon refrigerator. And keep reading LadyLolly's posts. I will be.

(in reply to LadyLolly)

Post #: 12

RE: Protection of what is yours? or interfering control... - 2/17/2008 1:03:37 PM

BlueHnS

Posts: 166
Joined: 9/5/2005
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I want to thank everyone so far for sharing thier views.
I personally bite my tongue ... alot.
I'm admittedly cynical and jaded and must constantly remind myself of a few things which are not limited to A) My way will not work for everyone. B) Not everyone has the same learning experiences. C) Sometimes life lessons must be learned even though it is difficult not to protect and shelter those you allow near you. D) I can save alot of people from alot of things but I can't save them from themselves. E) It's simply poor taste and counterproductive to run about saying " I told you so!" no matter how badly one wants to.
I also would like to believe that my choices in friends are rational intelligent individuals capable of coming to coherent decisions on thier own.
A couple interesting things have been brought up in the responses.
Lady Lolly ~ I specifically did not give examples because I was hoping someone would catch that. The changes could absolutely be 100% positive personal growth. To remain true to my hypothetical however they would be negative things, little things .. nothing quite so telling as disreguarding boundaries with no thought of the outcome save for thier personal satisfaction and intentionally setting a submissive up for failure. Ewww nastiness!
Lateralist ~ I'm kind of interested in this ... different light thing youre talking about .. you can hit me up on the other side if you want.
Edited for spelling

< Message edited by BlueHnS -- 2/17/2008 1:20:26 PM >

_____________________________

Questions are dangerous, for they have answers. ~ Kushiel's Dart
I think I'm going to get off. ~ The Poet

(in reply to lateralist1)

Post #: 13

RE: Protection of what is yours? or interfering control... - 2/17/2008 1:40:36 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
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Giving you opinion is one thing...manipulating the situation so it turns out the way you want is another. There are lessons we are here to learn and I feel we have to let those around us make their own mistakes. So, I feel that it's ok to voice your opinion, but it's up to them to take your advice or not...and most people don't appreciate, "I told you so."

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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(in reply to BlueHnS)

Post #: 14

RE: Protection of what is yours? or interfering control... - 2/17/2008 1:57:24 PM

RedMagic1

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Invest your time and energy in building mature, stable relationships. Lead by example, not by gossip.

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to BlueHnS)

Post #: 15

RE: Protection of what is yours? or interfering control... - 2/17/2008 2:21:00 PM

CuriousLord

Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

Personally, I'd speak my peace. If I thought someone was unstable, I'd just say it. Keep in mind that I'm not advocating gossip; I mean I'd talk to that person about it, either in private or openly.

Just remember that if you take a position contrary to someone else, you may have to fight it out.

PS- Fair warning, too. Everytime you make advice like this, and you're right, people will begin to respect you more. If you're not comfortable in an alpha position, silence may be a better route.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 2/17/2008 2:25:20 PM >

(in reply to BlueHnS)

Post #: 16

RE: Protection of what is yours? or interfering control... - 2/17/2008 2:21:47 PM

LadyHathor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Invest your time and energy in building mature, stable relationships. Lead by example, not by gossip.

Simply Brilliant!

_____________________________

Lady Hathor, I am the Mistress Hathor of Orleans, I am what I am, often to the dismay and discomfort of others.

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 17

RE: Protection of what is yours? or interfering control... - 2/17/2008 2:42:01 PM

ProlificNeeds

Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
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If my friends want my opinion on something or someone, they'll ask me for it. If I genuinely am concerned for their safety or health then I will speak up. Otherwise, I let them live their life. That's how we learn and grow wiser, through experience.

(in reply to LadyHathor)

Post #: 18

RE: Protection of what is yours? or interfering control... - 2/17/2008 2:48:08 PM

HerLord

Posts: 697
Joined: 2/14/2008
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understanding this question as I believe I do, and being a dom, I would expect to be approached by my love and have the details of observations thouroghly put before me. If the situation warrants intervention, then as the dom it IS ABSOLUTELY my responsibility. I am unsure of the dynamics or specifics of this circle, but certainly address the head to have further issues contained and or removed. If the issue IS the head, find a new circle. This is all.

_____________________________

"People as a whole think they want to hear the truth, until they hear it." -Stormism

(in reply to BlueHnS)

Post #: 19

RE: Protection of what is yours? or interfering control... - 2/17/2008 3:15:20 PM

LadyLolly

Posts: 140
Joined: 5/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

Giving you opinion is one thing...manipulating the situation so it turns out the way you want is another. There are lessons we are here to learn and I feel we have to let those around us make their own mistakes. So, I feel that it's ok to voice your opinion, but it's up to them to take your advice or not...and most people don't appreciate, "I told you so."

Master Fire

These are particularly valid points, especially the manipulation of outcome.

With the additional hypothecial information:

We stress trusting our "gut". Something about this or that person dosen't "feel" right, little "things" are looked for, noticed and stored away to validate that gut feel. Would it be a good thing to force on others this bank of little things and my own gut feel? No, not unless I were asked or I percieved a very tangible danger to another. If concerned at all I might make time to talk to someone interested in them, reiterate the listen to your gut feel thing and offer my ear if they choose, without pointing a finger at the person in question. But then, I'm a generous person that way.

Can wear yourself ragged trying to fix the world, picking apart the little things that don't really matter, being a busy body. A new member to the group is going to be under scrutiny. If you don't particularly care for them fair enough but why try to stir up others and create dissent within the group without there being a substantial reason to make an issue of it? Too, while not every body is not going to be everybody's best buddy or cup of tea, there is the direct approach of privately, non-confrontationally, talking to the person about what's bothering you. We're often very quick to judge without taking the time to try to understand another's viewpoint. It's possible they might not even be aware of how others are perceiving them. It's possible there are other factors in play that you aren't aware of. If there is enough interest/concern to take the time to dig a little deeper, do. Otherwise.....let it go.

All of this being hypothetical and all.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 20

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