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Dom4UA -> Commands (9/17/2005 3:13:19 AM)

Have you ever ordered a slave to do something that you have in the past told her that if she performed this particular command she would be punished?
In other words,have you commanded them to do something just to be able to punish them?



sweetpettjenny -> RE: Commands (9/17/2005 3:29:50 AM)

that is mentally abusive in my eyes...but who am I?



imtempting -> RE: Commands (9/17/2005 3:44:32 AM)

That just seems to be pretty stupid and counter-productive



lustiwench -> RE: Commands (9/17/2005 4:24:07 AM)

If you have ordered her to do it then the current order would supercede the original order not to do it. So, if you order her to do it and she does it, then punish her for it......It is you who should be punished. I have always been under the impression a Dom doesn't have to have a reason to 'punish'.



ProtagonistLily -> RE: Commands (9/17/2005 4:52:55 AM)

quote:

If you have ordered her to do it then the current order would supercede the original order not to do it. So, if you order her to do it and she does it, then punish her for it......It is you who should be punished. I have always been under the impression a Dom doesn't have to have a reason to 'punish'.


Hmmm. Interesting take on this.

Let's put this into a scenerio, shall we?

Dom: "I don't want you to open the freezer and get ice-cream after 8:00 pm. If you do, you will be punished."

sub: "Okie dokie Sir, no problem"

Several weeks later....

Dom: "Say, it's 9:00pm, you need some icecream"
sub: "Okie dokie Sir," she says and proceeds to get it and return to him.

Dom: "Bitch, you know the rules, you can't have ice-cream after 8:00 pm. Put it down and get into the corner now."

Now, I suppose the Dom has the right to punish her by using the previous command's consequences as applying to the latest one. I suppose he can stand on his head and spit nickles if he wants. However, my question would be, what exactly is he thinking? If he's trained a girl to follow his commands and then sends mixed signals, how does that strenthen the relationship? How does that strengthen the trust and make the flow of communication even better?

If all it took to be a Dom was to make demands and punishments for transgressions, anyone could be one. It takes a little more personal insight than that.

And before you Uber-Doms jump me and tell me that it's your supreme right to do anything you want and that you expect the girl to obey you totally, remember this: any girl worth her salt will only hang around so long with someone who's clearly only got his needs, wants and best interests in mind. And it's really no fun to be a Dom if there's no submissive around.

Lily




JohnWarren -> RE: Commands (9/17/2005 5:10:52 AM)

First off, I don't believe in "punishment." If a submissive displeases me, I tell her what she has done and that it has displeased me. If it happens again, I will re-evaluate the relationship.

That said, this sort of thing seems to me to be the perfect way to break the bond of trust that binds a dominant and submissive. In short, a very bad idea



fastlane -> RE: Commands (9/17/2005 5:36:48 AM)

Only in my shizoprhenic state have I ever been so hypocritical, but the meds have been working and my sub is much less confused these days.

In a word, "No"

Kevin



mnottertail -> RE: Commands (9/17/2005 5:42:11 AM)

I agree with those against this idea for the most part, with this caveat......if the both know its a teasing sort of thing and that it doesn't matter if you do or don't cause you are gonna get it..........

I find it interesting to have a sub hoisted on their own petard, so to speak.

Honey, does my ass look too fat in this dress?
Not a win/win no matter the answer.

But I am stressing-- only in a playful way where they can't win and they know it and it is light hearted and "Pleasant Punishment" in the end. (That is not real punishment.



mistoferin -> RE: Commands (9/17/2005 6:04:27 AM)

quote:

have you commanded them to do something just to be able to punish them?


Huh? Do people really do this? How does one "earn" punishment by FOLLOWING commands?



IronBear -> RE: Commands (9/17/2005 7:02:23 AM)

My second marriage was for me a no win situation for the last ten years of it. I stayed because I was stupid enough to believe I could fix it and because their were litterally millions of dollars involved with what we were doing and joint property etc. (enough cash is not a bad reason for some things). I will never place a person in that situation (unless it is a game). To do so is both cowardly and dishonourable. Punishment?... Corner time is one I am likly to use if the situation warrents it. However if a kajira of mine screws up, I must ask if I was at fault by not either giving her a command concisely enough or if my training of her lacked something. I would explain where she screwed up and find out why she did so. the rest is then to do with some re-edumicating her. Her seeing that I had found her displeasing should be sufficient punishment.



OsideGirl -> RE: Commands (9/17/2005 9:20:53 AM)

Punishment = not fun, Spanking = fun

So, basically you want to reward obedience with negative response. Psychologically, that's not a good thing.

Master does not need a reason to spank/paddle/cane/etc. I know that he does it simply because it's fun. We don't need to couch our enjoyment of those activities in the "You've been a bad girl" routine.

Punishment for me is something truly distressing. I hate incurring his disappointment. Punishment, if it's corporal, is not something remotely enjoyable.

So, why do that to your sub when she's doing exactly what you've wanted?

If your goal is to get a spanking or something similar in, why not couch it as "if you're a good girl, I'll give you spanking?"



Tempestspet -> RE: Commands (9/17/2005 9:33:01 AM)

Flip flopping like that would be an excellent way to lose not only trust, but respect. To have the right to own / collar (whatever title it is that you prefer) someone, you first need to have mastered you own life, become the boss of yourself, and your surroundings. If you haven't done that, then why should some entrust their own life with you? The reason I mentioned this, is because in giving an rule and then later intentionally breaking that rule yourself this is what you are showing us, and your sub/slave.

Mistakes happen, everyone here is human. But in realizing you want/need to change a rule you previously applied, set her/him down and explain you are changing the rule. But perhaps I am missing the point that you are doing just to get to punish the person, in which case go back to the top of this post and read again.

Tempest's pet
jennifer



ShadowHwk -> RE: Commands (9/17/2005 9:54:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dom4UA

Have you ever ordered a slave to do something that you have in the past told her that if she performed this particular command she would be punished?
In other words,have you commanded them to do something just to be able to punish them?


*Laugh*
Is anyone really foolish enough to try such a thing? Probably. But to do this, other than as an honest mistake, doesn't bode well for the relationship as a whole. As others have mentioned it could have the unwanted side effect of diminishing trust and almost certainly, respect.

This isn't what I would consider even a reasonable "mind-fuck"... if the best you can do is to contradict yourself maybe you should practice on blow up dolls before playing with living breathing people.

Just my .02.

Peace and Light
Terry



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Commands (9/17/2005 10:36:12 AM)

Essentially, yes the Owner has often changed his mind on what he consideres right and wrong and what he will punish me for.

As he likes to say, He's always consistent, except when he's not.

But he doesn't seriously punish me for such things, he just lets me know ex post facto about it and we laugh about it and move on.



WickedKev -> RE: Commands (9/17/2005 11:29:36 AM)

quote:



Hmmm. Interesting take on this.

Let's put this into a scenerio, shall we?

Dom: "I don't want you to open the freezer and get ice-cream after 8:00 pm. If you do, you will be punished."

sub: "Okie dokie Sir, no problem"

Several weeks later....

Dom: "Say, it's 9:00pm, you need some icecream"
sub: "Okie dokie Sir," she says and proceeds to get it and return to him.

Dom: "Bitch, you know the rules, you can't have ice-cream after 8:00 pm. Put it down and get into the corner now."




The way I have read this scenario is that the Dom in asking her if she needed some ice cream and is testing the sub to see if she has a handle on the orders he originally gave her.

If you add to your scenario;

Dom: "Say, it's 9:00pm, you need some icecream"
sub: "But Master I am not allowed by your orders to eat ice cream at this time."

Dom: "I order you to eat the ice cream!"
sub: "Okie dokie Sir," she says and proceeds to get it and return to him.

Dom: "Bitch, you know the rules, you can't have ice-cream after 8:00 pm. Put it down and get into the corner now."


Then I would say he's lost the plot and needs to be restrained and put in the Old Doms Home.



IronBear -> RE: Commands (9/17/2005 1:31:04 PM)

quote:

Then I would say he's lost the plot and needs to be restrained and put in the Old Doms Home.


Bloody hell NO! he'd likely end up with the Gorean Old Farts Brigade, and we dont want the likes of him!!!!!! sheesh its bad enough reminding half of the Old Geezers what you use a trik for and it aint to get the potty!!!! Slap a collar on the bastard and let him work at the Ancient Kajira Home cleaning bed pans.



Hallittlelolita -> RE: Commands (9/17/2005 2:08:42 PM)

i agree completly with sweetpettjenny[:)]

Sincerely andie and her Master Hal
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetpettjenny

that is mentally abusive in my eyes...but who am I?




anopheles -> RE: Commands (9/18/2005 1:54:12 PM)

Unless there is an undertone of mindfucks in the relationship, then I think this would be very detrimental to the relationship. The Dom ends up thinking that they have power that they really don't have, and the sub just ends up thinking WTF am I supposed to do now?? To some that energy might be exciting. That is a dynamic though, that I do not understand.



mnottertail -> RE: Commands (9/18/2005 2:42:42 PM)

Well, in truth, now; life is full of these little conundrums, you can't please all the people all the time. To practice being ok with that is not something that is of worthlessness. This is in view of my original post on the subject .......well lotta people quoting Anais Nin saying...'I absolutely refuse to lead.......' Puts you at anothers whims and mercies.........
Just a thought starter for those who wish to start thinking something.....




KatyLied -> RE: Commands (9/18/2005 3:27:08 PM)

"Each friend represents a world in us, a world not born until they arrive, and it is only by this meeting that a new world is born."

(yep, way off topic here). My favorite Anais Nin quote, you made me think of it.




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