quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

The higher the temperature, the higher the partial pressure of water vapor. The more water vapor in the air, the more snow when that air cools sufficiently.

The problem, Hippiekinkster, is that you are using "real science" and "basic physics" to try to clarify for the uneducated and Dittoheaded populations why something happens.  In my experience, this works as well as attempting to mix oil (knowledge) with vinegar (right-wing politics).

I posted last year about 36 cubic miles of antarctic ice mass disappearing as determined by gravity sensing satellites.  The response I got was that the satellite measurements were wrong because of issues with computer modelling the results.  I spent months trying to get the posters involved to clarify, since I used to build computer models for a living and really wanted to understand their point of view, but they crawled off to sulk and refused the opportunity to face peer review of their vast scientific knowledge.

To break it down, if 36 cubic miles of ice melt, it raises the water temperature (think of what happens to the Scotch when the ice cube melts) and allows the earth to heat up.

When the earth heats up, some water (say, in the ocean) transforms from a liquid state to a vapor state and enters the atmosphere.

This vapor cools to some degree, allowing things like winter to cool it below the triple point of water.

When it drops below the triple point, the vapor forms into a water or solid state (rain or sleet/snow, for those playing the home game) which falls on the earth.

Two issues come up.

1)  Melting water raises water levels and displaces 1 billion people from the coastal cities they live in to other places.  But FEMA proved that cities that get sunk by hurricanes (predicted for 20 years prior to it by global warming alarmist types, and responded to as a surprise nobody could have predicted by global warming nay-sayers) can be easily relocated to football stadiums and trailer parks in the middle of nowhere.

2)  Human beings can survive in a very narrow range of temperatures.  Sure, our military is in 140 degree weather in Iraq, which I imagine they describe as "balmy," but when the average temperature gives us regular temperatures of 160 or 180, people start to die off.  I say people, because the people who argue against global warming dont really give a good gawd damn how many frogs or coral reefs or spiders or tree moss or whatever dies off.

The problem, Hippiekinkster, is that you are using "real science" and "basic physics" to try to clarify for the uneducated and Dittoheaded populations why something happens.  In my experience, this works as well as attempting to mix oil (knowledge) with vinegar (right-wing politics).

I posted last year about 36 cubic miles of antarctic ice mass disappearing as determined by gravity sensing satellites.  The response I got was that the satellite measurements were wrong because of issues with computer modelling the results.

I spent months trying to get the posters involved to clarify, since I used to build computer models for a living and really wanted to understand their point of view, but they crawled off to sulk and refused the opportunity to face peer review of their vast scientific knowledge.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

So what if global warming is happening?  I am not saying it isn't; I am not an expert on the subject.  Unlike a lot of posters here, I will readily say, "I don't know."  It's not that hard, just swallow your ego and try it some time.  My knowledge of global warming comes from what I have read and seen.  Honestly, it doesn't sound like the end of life to me.  Yeah, we will lose some land to rising seas.  Yes, it will be warmer.  It's not the first time that the Earth has been considerably warmer.  We are not going to maintain our present climate perpetually, no matter what measures we take. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
So where will all those millions of people go when their homes are submerged? Are you are aware that a sizable percentage of the human population lives within a couple of meters of sea level? Can all those folks on the gulf coast come live in Arkansas? What happens to our economy when all the huge container ports are under water? What should we do for the entire countries that get submerged? The Maldives are already in trouble.

What will you do as food prices go up as the rising temps shift the temperate climate most of our food crops require closer to the poles, where there is simply less land? What will poor displaced people do for food?

How many wars will be fought as the waters rise asa countries big and small struggle to deal with displaced populations, shattered economies and food shortages. How many nations will follow demagogues into war?

Ultimately with a large portion of the human race dead from various causes and the rest struggling to survive with so much of our infrastructure destroyed will we as a species slide into a dark age or worse yet extinction?

quote:


So where will all those millions of people go when their homes are submerged? Are you are aware that a sizable percentage of the human population lives within a couple of meters of sea level? Can all those folks on the gulf coast come live in Arkansas? What happens to our economy when all the huge container ports are under water? What should we do for the entire countries that get submerged? The Maldives are already in trouble.

What will you do as food prices go up as the rising temps shift the temperate climate most of our food crops require closer to the poles, where there is simply less land? What will poor displaced people do for food?

How many wars will be fought as the waters rise asa countries big and small struggle to deal with displaced populations, shattered economies and food shortages. How many nations will follow demagogues into war?

Ultimately with a large portion of the human race dead from various causes and the rest struggling to survive with so much of our infrastructure destroyed will we as a species slide into a dark age or worse yet extinction?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I read somewhere that the ice that is melting is refreezing somewhere else.

I think the planet has the right to change it's appearance in our lifetime, I mean, why should it remain static when it never has done before?

Even long before human kind's short existance on Earth, and it is short in comparison to the age of the planet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

The higher the temperature, the higher the partial pressure of water vapor. The more water vapor in the air, the more snow when that air cools sufficiently.

The problem, Hippiekinkster, is that you are using "real science" and "basic physics" to try to clarify for the uneducated and Dittoheaded populations why something happens.  In my experience, this works as well as attempting to mix oil (knowledge) with vinegar (right-wing politics).

I posted last year about 36 cubic miles of antarctic ice mass disappearing as determined by gravity sensing satellites.  The response I got was that the satellite measurements were wrong because of issues with computer modelling the results.  I spent months trying to get the posters involved to clarify, since I used to build computer models for a living and really wanted to understand their point of view, but they crawled off to sulk and refused the opportunity to face peer review of their vast scientific knowledge.

To break it down, if 36 cubic miles of ice melt, it raises the water temperature (think of what happens to the Scotch when the ice cube melts) and allows the earth to heat up.

When the earth heats up, some water (say, in the ocean) transforms from a liquid state to a vapor state and enters the atmosphere.

This vapor cools to some degree, allowing things like winter to cool it below the triple point of water.

When it drops below the triple point, the vapor forms into a water or solid state (rain or sleet/snow, for those playing the home game) which falls on the earth.

Two issues come up.

1)  Melting water raises water levels and displaces 1 billion people from the coastal cities they live in to other places.  But FEMA proved that cities that get sunk by hurricanes (predicted for 20 years prior to it by global warming alarmist types, and responded to as a surprise nobody could have predicted by global warming nay-sayers) can be easily relocated to football stadiums and trailer parks in the middle of nowhere.

2)  Human beings can survive in a very narrow range of temperatures.  Sure, our military is in 140 degree weather in Iraq, which I imagine they describe as "balmy," but when the average temperature gives us regular temperatures of 160 or 180, people start to die off.  I say people, because the people who argue against global warming dont really give a good gawd damn how many frogs or coral reefs or spiders or tree moss or whatever dies off.

Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

The higher the temperature, the higher the partial pressure of water vapor. The more water vapor in the air, the more snow when that air cools sufficiently.

The problem, Hippiekinkster, is that you are using "real science" and "basic physics" to try to clarify for the uneducated and Dittoheaded populations why something happens.  In my experience, this works as well as attempting to mix oil (knowledge) with vinegar (right-wing politics).

They never can cite any peer-reviewed Science. All they have is BS from shills for Big Oil.  And you are right, they don't give a flying fuck about whether their grand-children will have an inhabitable Earth, as long as they keep making money. Their main argument for not doing anything seems to be "it'll hurt the economy". Ummmm, if drastic measures aren't taken, there won't BE any economy. Duh. How dumb can they get?

It's usually as pointless explaining GCC to them as it is explaining Evolution.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

So what if global warming is happening?  I am not saying it isn't; I am not an expert on the subject.  Unlike a lot of posters here, I will readily say, "I don't know."  It's not that hard, just swallow your ego and try it some time.  My knowledge of global warming comes from what I have read and seen.  Honestly, it doesn't sound like the end of life to me.  Yeah, we will lose some land to rising seas.  Yes, it will be warmer.  It's not the first time that the Earth has been considerably warmer.  We are not going to maintain our present climate perpetually, no matter what measures we take. 

So where will all those millions of people go when their homes are submerged? Are you are aware that a sizable percentage of the human population lives within a couple of meters of sea level? Can all those folks on the gulf coast come live in Arkansas? What happens to our economy when all the huge container ports are under water? What should we do for the entire countries that get submerged? The Maldives are already in trouble.

What will you do as food prices go up as the rising temps shift the temperate climate most of our food crops require closer to the poles, where there is simply less land? What will poor displaced people do for food?

How many wars will be fought as the waters rise asa countries big and small struggle to deal with displaced populations, shattered economies and food shortages. How many nations will follow demagogues into war?

Ultimately with a large portion of the human race dead from various causes and the rest struggling to survive with so much of our infrastructure destroyed will we as a species slide into a dark age or worse yet extinction?

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611
Volcanic activity under the earth's crust and ocean floor in the polar regions has increased in the past 20 years and continue to increase. The sun is going through a polar shift resulting in more solar radiation impacting earth. The average surface temperature over the past 20 years has increased only by 0.5 degrees F and the atmospheric temperature has remained unchanged during that same time period.

quote:

Our CO2 involvement in global warming is still in debate. Mother nature creates far more CO2 naturally every year than humans do collectively in a decade. Our contribution of CO2 due to industrializaion is minimal. Risisng CO2 levels also tends to favor growth and thickness of vegitation.

quote:

What I dont understand is the global warming alarmists out there that think the earth is a static body, that it never has nor will it ever change and has always been the same. This planet goes through cycles, changes, and phases. The whole premise behind weather forecasting is identifying cycles. Back in the middle ages, the earth was even warmer than it is today. In some areas it was much, much warmer. A huge block of ice in antartica has recently been identified as being only 2,000 years old which is extremely young meaning much of the ice at the polar regions was not there just several thousand years ago. They recently found fossils of tropical plants in Siberia and Alaska!

-Nobody has said the Earth is static, people have said what the Earth is doing now doesn't fit historical patterns
-The Earth was not warmer in the middle ages than it is now. It was warer than usual, but not warmer than today.
-I don't know where you read that bit about Anarctic ice being young, but I've read geology textbooks and scientific journals that state exactly the opposite.
-There are tropical fossils in northern regions because of plate tectonics. What now forms Alaska used to be located near the equator.

quote:

My point is that there is a lot about this planet that we do not understand. The earth is 4 billion years old. We have only been around for a blip in this planet's history. Yes, pollution is a big problem that needs to be taken care off. But to claim our miniscule contribution of CO2 is somehow going to lead to the extinction of the human race by 2050?.....GIVE ME A BREAK! That's a fabricated scare tactic to promote a political agenda. And you are a fool if you fall for it.

We understand quite a lot about it, it's jsut not widely publicized. And nobody said end of the human race,people did say lots of costly problems.

(in reply to cyberdude611)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

The more moisture in the atmosphere makes sense. Now though I am wondering this: More snow on the the ground keeps the ground temps cooler, which in turn effects the global temps over a long period of time. Is this just a way that the Earth responds to heating, by creating ways to cool itself?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

This is the other response from the global warming naysayers.

"It is a really big and complex problem that I personally cannot understand, so dont ask me to change anything or do anything apart from what I am already doing."

While I know your approach works for a lot of people, please go explain to the people in New Orleans that despite the fact that people had been predicting the flooding of the city since the 1960s based on climate studies, our government never bothered to ask the Dutch how they have lived below sea level for hundreds of years, and the river that their port uses for access to the Zuiderzee has no dead zones bigger than half the states in the United States, and failed to do anything to prevent the calamity brought by Katrina.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Um, that doesn't sound like a environmental problem. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Can some of the Global Warming experts tell me how Global Warming gives us higher snowfall in the Northern Hemisphere?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Bullshit.

quote:



Go back to the thread you are referencing, and reread it. You have yet to display the slightest understanding of the issues discussed.