Just Flirting... (Full Version)

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TreasureKY -> Just Flirting... (2/21/2008 9:40:27 AM)

Not wanting to completely derail another thread, some excellent comments made by Lashra got me to thinking about how flirting is viewed.  I feel she made some pretty profound observations and thought I would like to explore the issue a little more broadly… seek some additional viewpoints and insight.

To a submissive whose dominant continues to receive suggestive contact from former subs, Lashra said:

quote:

… He may enjoy the attention that these ladies are pouring his way, if he didn't he could surely stop it. I can't imagine why an "ex" sub would send pictures and emails saying the things that you claim these women are saying unless they felt they really had a chance of them coming true.


Okay.  Her comments weren’t directly addressing “flirting”, but in the context of other posts made with regard to flirting, I really felt they provided some interesting insight.  Humor me, please.  [:)]

Sooo… what exactly is flirting?

The dictionary defines it as playful behavior intended to arouse sexual interest or to make playfully romantic or sexual overtures.

The emphasis I see here is on the word “playful”… as in, not serious.  Many people would stop there, but I want to look beyond just the superficial and consider the motivation behind flirting.

Of course, every individual is going to have his or her own unique reasons for flirting, but I suspect that most are going to fall into two broad categories… what I think of as “attention” and “overture”.

I believe I’m fairly safe in saying that most people want to feel good about themselves.  If we’re healthy and happy, we generally don’t need other people to make us feel good, but having the validation of another occasionally doesn’t hurt and usually makes us feel all the better.  This is where flirting can be for attention… it’s an opening to someone to flirt back and validate our “desirableness”, for lack of a better word.

But often flirting is used to explore the possibility of seriousness without making oneself vulnerable and risking outright rejection.  It’s a way to “innocently” display interest in someone… an overture.  And from their response, you can often gauge how much interest they may have in you.  If they don’t flirt back at all (or if you get called on it by your significant other [;)]), comfort can be found in the thought that you weren’t really serious.

In essence, though, flirting is an opening… an invitation.   While it can be either overt or discreet, the key is usually in the sub-context… or at least how the sub-context is perceived and acted upon.

Take the initiating comment, “it’s a shame you are married”; essentially what is being said is, “you are seen to be interesting/desirable.”  For the flirter seeking only attention, this could simply be an ego stroke offered with the open invitation for reciprocation.  The recipient may take it as such, but it could also be taken as an overture.  The question of  “are you open to a relationship outside of your marriage?” may not be overt, but it hangs there nonetheless and the recipient can either acknowledge it or not.

How the flirting gauntlet is responded to makes all the difference.

The recipient could flirt back with something like, “Why is that a shame?  I may be married, but that doesn’t mean I’m not available.  *wink, wink* ”

That puts the ball back in the original flirter’s court and can change the intent from “attention” to “overture”.   How they respond can accept the shift, change it back, or shut down the conversation entirely.

This is where Lashra’s comment that “he could surely stop it” got me thinking.  Can you really stop someone from flirting with you?   I personally believe the control really lies with how you respond to a flirt.  If someone enjoys the attention and is comfortable that the intent behind the flirting hasn’t gone beyond the “attention” mode and into “overture”, I doubt they will make any efforts to stop it.

The question then becomes not whether it is being discouraged, but is it being actively encouraged and how are your intentions perceived?   And this is where things get sticky…

In life, we create opportunities for relationships to develop and flirting is just one way.  On CM we post profiles, we send introductory messages, we place people on our favorites list, we flirt in the forums.  While we each have our own reasons for doing so and our own ideas of the kinds of relationships we are opening ourselves to, our true intentions may not be clear to others.  Whether we like it or not, for the most part in this particular social setting those things above are generally accepted as part of “the mating dance”... though not exclusively.

Every time we view a profile, say “hello”, become someone’s admirer, or tell someone we wished they lived closer, we are opening ourself a relationship (I’m using that term very loosely).  How you intend that relationship to be and how it is perceived by others are two different things unless and until a clear communication is made.  Unfortunately, flirting is rarely clear communication and I think that is where Lashra’s comment that “…they felt they really had a chance” is very relevant.

By the way, what is really a chance?  Isn’t any chance no matter the likelihood, still a chance?  Or is there a specific point where the percentage of probability tips the scales from “a chance” to “really a chance”?    [8D]

The point is that people will perceive what they perceive, and usually it's because how or where or what we are communicating can be taken that way.  So often we use the mantra, “actions speak louder than words”, but with choosing to flirt, or how we react to others flirting with us, do we even try to make our actions match our words?  We place great importance on our intentions, but do we try to clearly communication what those intentions are through our actions and words?

lol… Then we turn around and say, “I didn’t really mean it” or “I wasn’t serious”.

It's no wonder people get confused.  [:D]




Jeffff -> RE: Just Flirting... (2/21/2008 9:47:54 AM)

I think people expect to get what they give. Some one secure in their relationship would view it as harmless fun. Some one insecure would view it as a threat. Just like a  liar will often assume they are being lied to

Jeff





Dnomyar -> RE: Just Flirting... (2/21/2008 9:50:55 AM)

My eyes hurt from trying to read all of that. You flirt with a person because you are interested in them. You want to get to know them better.




sweetwenchie -> RE: Just Flirting... (2/21/2008 10:00:15 AM)

i admit to being an incorrigible flirt, though not for self validation or because i actually want to get into that person's pants or skirt.     It is fun, it is playful... and i think it is a natural healthy behavior  for most people.  Rarely do i take flirting as anything serious, or automatically assume if someone is flirting with me that they actually desire me.  [8|]   If i am in a relationship i still flirt, and have no issues with my SO flirting, i see no reason for jealousy as long as there is trust between us.




xxblushesxx -> RE: Just Flirting... (2/21/2008 10:02:03 AM)

Often when I introduce myself to someone on the other side it's just being friendly. Especially if they live nearby. It's nice to have friends in the lifestyle you can actually meet with in rt and talk to.

As far as flirting goes; if I flirt, I only mean it to make the other person feel good about his/her self. It's definitely NOT an invitation. Just a validation.

Different people have different motivations, and it's usually pretty clear just by tone of voice or the look in someone's eye what their motivation is.

~Christina




marieToo -> RE: Just Flirting... (2/21/2008 10:07:14 AM)

I think sometimes flirting is just done in fun or when someone might be feeling giddy and playful.  But more often than not, (imo) it's usually a sign that two people find each other fuckable.

When I engage in flirting,  I'm am usually genuinely attracted to the person, even if I know that I could never be with that person. Why do it?  It's fun.  In fact, it's easier to flirt with people with whom you know that nothing can ever come of it.  ie...someone in another country or whathaveyou.  It's safe, it's like you're not taking any risk in letting them know how you feel because you know that circumstances will never allow it to materialize.  Then other times, it's a bit more risky, because you know deep down exactly what it's going to lead to, and well, that can be scary sometimes.




Missokyst -> RE: Just Flirting... (2/21/2008 10:13:15 AM)

Not necessarily.  I like males.  I used to tell people I am basically a flirt who would flirt with males  of any age.  I talk differently to males.  I am more smiley with male children, and more gentle.  I tend to expect more from females and talk to them as if they were on an adult level, regardless of their age.  The same is true for men who might be in their 80's.  I talk more softly, look into their eyes, smile more, and in general I am more apt to listen closely to what they say to me.
I flirt with males because they make me happy and they respond in kind. 
You don't have to be attracted to someone to flirt.  You don't have to want to know them better to flirt.  Sometimes it is just a natural response to their gender.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

My eyes hurt from trying to read all of that. You flirt with a person because you are interested in them. You want to get to know them better.




AtlantaMistress -> RE: Just Flirting... (2/21/2008 10:22:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I think people expect to get what they give. Some one secure in their relationship would view it as harmless fun. Some one insecure would view it as a threat. Just like a  liar will often assume they are being lied to

Jeff




I totally agree - and even in the post that originally inspired this one - I was trying to say that - to examine why He may be jealous and limiting your contact with others may be reason to think about what is really going on with the advances of others - at least something to think about and try to communicate to know why the double standard.

As for flirting - I was married/with my ex for 17 years. I was a BIG flirt - but NEVER cheated. I did it not for attention or overture, but sometimes - jsut because it was fun, and I tend to be a "button pusher" and others because I have always known how to use my sensuality to get what I wanted. In the corporate world, and in a male dominated field - flirting was good for my career. It wasn't me wanting attention as much as giving it to someone else to make them feel good - a means to an end usually to get what I wanted - which was not sexual at all. It got me in the door for sales calls, invititations to events, got the technicians to take care of my customers as a priority, etc. Very rarely was I in a position of someone actually taken me seriously, and I would bat my eyes, play a little stupid and say something like "If I wasn't married..." - but I was, and I never crossed any lines.

When I was single, I kept up the same behavior as I always had, and actually had a friend pull me aside, because the exact same behavior was percieved totally different now that I wasn't "taken". I never even had considered that...but it was true. I had always been "someone elses" and now that I wasn't - it gave out signals very differently than it had in the past. I no longer had the "I'm married" line to fall back on, and if someone thought I was serious, I was in an uncomfortable position - not wanting to hurt someone's feelings to just blatently say I wasn't interested.

Now, in a relationship, I can go right back to my old flirting self. There is no jealousy - he knows I love him - and I have made it quite clear to him that I am not looking for anyone else.He too can be a flirt, and since he met so many Dommes during his "sub frenzy" he had that kind of behavior before with the way he would interact, and I don't have a problem with it now - as long as he understands the boundaries. When they have been unclear (like no sucking on someone elses toes) - I have pointed them out, and very quickly he has understood that it is not something that he will do again. It is not at all that I think he is trying to make an advance, but as it has been said, it is the perception that may give others - that I just don't want there to be any confusion about.




Sundowner -> RE: Just Flirting... (2/21/2008 10:24:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY


But often flirting is used to explore the possibility of seriousness without making oneself vulnerable and risking outright rejection.  



Bear in mind some of us are so in the wrong job - we're wannabe doms with no self confidence and a desperate fear of rejection. So you're right that flirting can be a good way of initiating contact without too much risk - "She told me to back off, but I wasn't serious anyway".

But it's also just plain good fun <attempts to flutter eyelashes at sweetwenchie>.




sweetwenchie -> RE: Just Flirting... (2/21/2008 10:26:55 AM)

awwwwwwww Dominants are so cute when they do the eye fluttery thing   ~winks at Sundowner~




CarrieO -> RE: Just Flirting... (2/21/2008 10:28:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetwenchie

i admit to being an incorrigible flirt, though not for self validation or because i actually want to get into that person's pants or skirt.     It is fun, it is playful... and i think it is a natural healthy behavior  for most people.  Rarely do i take flirting as anything serious, or automatically assume if someone is flirting with me that they actually desire me.  [8|]   If i am in a relationship i still flirt, and have no issues with my SO flirting, i see no reason for jealousy as long as there is trust between us.


I flirt with men and women. I flirt because it's fun and natural for me. I know the social limits for flirting but I do push them...that's what makes life fun and interesting. I have a very good male friend and we have no sexual attraction for each other(we've discussed this and agree that just friends is good) and most of our conversations are full of flirtatious talk.  It's who I am.

sweetwenchie...I like what you said about trust and jealousy. That's the sign of a REAL relationship, for me, when you and your partner are comfortable and secure enough with each other that flirting with others is seen as just that...flirtatious fun.
peace.




FRSguy -> RE: Just Flirting... (2/21/2008 10:34:36 AM)

I'm with the wench.... its all just playful fun to me... it allways has been even before I became sexual I still flirted with teachers and adults that were in my life. I also like to form close personal relationships and flirting is a way to get others to open up and talk about personal issues and beliefs while still maintaining a degree of security from destroying the friendship.




CalifChick -> RE: Just Flirting... (2/21/2008 10:34:50 AM)

FR

When there was a subtle shift, early on in the getting-to-know-you phase with my Dominant, I asked him if my flirting with other people bothered him. He said (and I'm paraphrasing here), that flirting was harmless fun that made both me and the recipient feel good, and he didn't see a problem.

Cali
(mostly harmless, HGTTG)




Sundowner -> RE: Just Flirting... (2/21/2008 10:39:20 AM)

 
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetwenchie

awwwwwwww Dominants are so cute when they do the eye fluttery thing   ~winks at Sundowner~


<Sundowner panics> She winked at me! Sheesh. What the f*** do I do now? <Goes and hides in corner>

(And secretly flutters eyethings at Cali too since she's popped in)




Dnomyar -> RE: Just Flirting... (2/21/2008 10:52:37 AM)

Now that she winked at you Sundowner tell her to bring you an ale. She is only looking for a big tip anyway. Flirting can be fun but it has its pitfalls also.




sweetwenchie -> RE: Just Flirting... (2/21/2008 10:54:16 AM)

now Dnomyar... if i wanted to try and get a big tip i would be bending over and oh so innocently flashing the guy!  [8D]




CalifChick -> RE: Just Flirting... (2/21/2008 10:54:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sundowner

<Sundowner panics> ...(And secretly flutters eyethings at Cali too since she's popped in)


Sundowner sweetheart, come take my hand and flutter your little eyelashes all over my hot skin. No need to panic.

Cali
(Don't Panic, HGTTG)




DesFIP -> RE: Just Flirting... (2/21/2008 10:58:17 AM)

Agreed that flirting can be harmless ego boosting or seriously trying to gauge interest without getting called out for it.

However nobody would still be sending pics of their bare breasts if they had not received interest back after two years. I don't believe it's been two years since he played with them. Considering the op there said they've been together only two months, I do believe it's been, at best, three months since he'd been playing with these others.

Moreover, there was no reason for him to do anything with these texts and pics except quietly delete. He shoved them under her nose. You don't think he had a hidden agenda for that? Of course, I'm a cynic. Unfotunately by the time you get to my age, you learn that cynicism is usually the right response. I've seen a lot of bad things in my life, I've never seen the bluebird of happiness fly by.




Dnomyar -> RE: Just Flirting... (2/21/2008 11:03:57 AM)

Mmmm Sundowner are you looking to start a cat fight here. Wenchie bring me a beer before you begin.




Sundowner -> RE: Just Flirting... (2/21/2008 11:04:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sundowner

<Sundowner panics> ...(And secretly flutters eyethings at Cali too since she's popped in)


Sundowner sweetheart, come take my hand and flutter your little eyelashes all over my hot skin. No need to panic.

Cali
(Don't Panic, HGTTG)



Sheesh Cali! As soon as I've got over the sweetwenchie thing I'll be there (hot skin due to amazing passionate desire I trust, not because you've still got the flu?).




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