RE: Should he die for this?

RE: Should he die for this? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Should he die for this?

He's over reacting. On balance, this is not such a terrible crime

20% (5)

nobody will believe he's nothing but pure scum for doing it

8% (2)

He deserves what he gets, no matter how it effects him and his family

25% (6)

He should be publicly shamed as well as prosecuted for his crimes

20% (5)

He should get it over with and kill himself if thats how he feels

4% (1)

He should be helped with his problems, not humilliated by his mistakes

20% (5)

Total Votes : 24

(last vote on : 12/1/2005 9:45:15 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

iwillserveu -> RE: Should he die for this? (7/18/2004 6:08:21 AM)
Sorry, my buzz.

iwillserveu -> RE: Should he die for this? (7/18/2004 6:19:09 AM)
proudsub, Please excuse me if this is a private fight.[:)] I think what is meant is only you (generic you) have control over your (generic your) feelings. Someone can use a camera on a briefcase to look up your skirt. Whether you feel ashamed or complimented is your choice, not his. I think a lot of people are over reacting. Even assuming this is not a psychological condition like kleptomania (a condition all bank robbers have, btw) It is minor. We are not talking of pedophilia or raping the neighbor’s cat. I bet those "victims" are OK now and not living with the trauma caused. It is like purposefully stepping on a toe. Yes, it is battery, but six months or whatever is appropriate. Arguing that the victim must live with the shame of having his toe stepped on for the rest of his life is laughable.

SherriA -> RE: Should he die for this? (7/18/2004 6:27:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: iwillserveu I think a lot of people are over reacting. Even assuming this is not a psychological condition like kleptomania (a condition all bank robbers have, btw) It is minor. We are not talking of pedophilia or raping the neighbor’s cat. I bet those "victims" are OK now and not living with the trauma caused. It is like purposefully stepping on a toe. Yes, it is battery, but six months or whatever is appropriate. Arguing that the victim must live with the shame of having his toe stepped on for the rest of his life is laughable. And 2 years from now when the victim's children or neighbors or bosses see these pictures floating around the internet the victim shouldn't be upset? 5 years from now? The victim shouldn't be concerned that something she didn't consent to can continute to show up without her knowledge and possibly impact her life? (Taking pictures up someone's skirt doesn't preclude showing her face, nor did the initial poster suggest that the victims were unidentifiable in the photos.) Just as you suggest the "shame" of it should fade for the victim, so should the "shame" of his crimes fade for the perpetrator. The difference is that the victim didn't do anything to deserve to have to live with that shame while the perpetrator did.

pixieunleashed -> RE: Should he die for this? (7/18/2004 7:44:42 AM)
quote: I believe, though, that while saying ones desicions are what has ultimatly shaped ones life is liberating and freeing, saying that a victim is ultimtaly responsible for the thigns done to them can be problematic quote: I belive I am half responsible for the rape, because, I am the one that decided to walk down the alley. I did not say the "victim" was ultimately responsible, I said half. Even that is a bit generous. My point being is that there is responsibility to be taken on both parts. quote: I see how this might work for adults, however I immediatly thought of children who have suffered at the hands of others. I cannot see how a child can be in any way responsible for abuse. This touches on my belief system as well, because I believe that we all "contract" our lives before we are born, we choose our parents, what is going to happen to us, the kind of life we live, etc.. Leaving my belief system out of it and just talking practical, there is partial responsibilty in just being present in the situation. It comes off harsh, I know, but nature in and of itself is harsh. We sign up for danger as soon as our souls decide to connect with flesh. quote: I think that you and I have fundamentally differnt outlooks, in that I was unable to "get over' damanges that happened in my life untill I learned that I was not responsible for them. I know where you're at, I used to be there. Getting to where I am now took a lot of painful growth. I had to deal with my own crap, even the pixie is not as perfect as she thinks she is, as well as pixie not knowing everything. The path I am on is not for the weak of heart, and I occasionally wish I could go back to haveing no responsibility for all of the bad things that have happened to me. It's similiar to being a teenager living with your parents and one day, you move out and realize there are bills you need to pay. As much as you hate paying the bills and being responsible, and want to go back to being carefree again, you know your spirit cannot handle moveing back in with the folks. Stay where you are at now, untill you can't stand it anymore before deciding to endeavor onto the "responsibility" path. This is a flight you want to make sure your wings are fully developed for. I want to thank you for opening your mind enough to let my words reach you on a mental level, instead of takeing them into the emotional level. It tells a lot about you as a woman. You may dissagree with me forever on anything, and I may dissagree with you in the same manner. I respect you, regardless. thank you for reading this, have a great day, pixie

Sinergy -> RE: Should he die for this? (7/18/2004 11:14:44 AM)
quote: I did not say the "victim" was ultimately responsible, I said half. Even that is a bit generous. My point being is that there is responsibility to be taken on both parts. Hello, I wanted to put my $0.02 cents in on this, focussing on the word "victim." Cemetaries are filled with victims. The fact that the person who endured something as horrible as rape or assault is still here makes them a survivor in my eyes, and I have nothing but respect for that person. Sinergy

pixieunleashed -> RE: Should he die for this? (7/18/2004 1:06:39 PM)
quote: Cemetaries are filled with victims. Cemetaries are filled with dead bodies. The word "victim" now only becomes a word the survivors use to label that person so they can deal with their own grief. Granted, I don't know how a dead person feels, since I do not remember being dead, but in my opinion, I don't think a dead person cares what you call them nor do they care about anything, anymore. thank you for reading this, have a great day, pixie

Sinergy -> RE: Should he die for this? (7/18/2004 1:30:47 PM)
quote: Cemetaries are filled with dead bodies. The word "victim" now only becomes a word the survivors use to label that person so they can deal with their own grief. Granted, I don't know how a dead person feels, since I do not remember being dead, but in my opinion, I don't think a dead person cares what you call them nor do they care about anything, anymore. thank you for reading this, have a great day, Thank you for focussing on the word victim. I guess listening to hundreds of women's horror stories about rape, abuse, incest, etc., etc., ad nauseum that they have experienced, that I have issues when they describe something they experienced that makes my hair curl and can still get through the day, hold a job, have a relationship, raise children. After all that, I get to hear them refer to themselves as a victim. I dont see them as victims. I have nothing but the utmost respect for somebody who can SURVIVE a traumatic experience and is still with us. Perhaps I am sharing too much of my personal issues with the emotional detritus of what I do, but I will say that I could be wrong, and it is just my opinion. Sinergy

pixieunleashed -> RE: Should he die for this? (7/18/2004 2:47:02 PM)
quote: Thank you for focussing on the word victim. You're welcome. I believe that language is a very powerful tool, and it is important to be choosey in the words you use, especially if they are in written format. quote: I guess listening to hundreds of women's horror stories about rape, abuse, incest, etc., etc., ad nauseum that they have experienced, that I have issues when they describe something they experienced that makes my hair curl and can still get through the day, hold a job, have a relationship, raise children. After all that, I get to hear them refer to themselves as a victim. I dont see them as victims. I have nothing but the utmost respect for somebody who can SURVIVE a traumatic experience and is still with us. People see themselves at victims because it is alot easier to be a victim than it is to accept responsibility. Neither way is right or wrong, it is just an example of how people work. I think when people are knocked down, sometimes it is just easier to stay down. Awful things happen to other people and to ourselves, and when we hear about them/experience them they affect us and cause us a degree of pain. Our own emotional reactions to these situatoins is our buisness. When I hear something terrible that has happened, I cry, partly because of my own emotional issues, but also because of the pain the other person's involved are feeling. What happened to cause the pain, is irrevelant to me as that act is now over and done with. It is the pain that enters the forefront of my mind because that is where the healing happens. As I percieve, you are in an awesome place. You can look at these women and celebrate them being survivors, even after you hear their horror stories. Do you ever wish you could show them how you see them? I ask that, because if I were in your place, that would be what I would want to do. I think it would be very beneficial for all of us that have issues we are not comfortable with, to be able to feel how other people think about us. ( and in a perfect world.....) smiles quote: Perhaps I am sharing too much of my personal issues with the emotional detritus of what I do, but I will say that I could be wrong, and it is just my opinion. You shared what you felt you needed to share, how could that be too much? I thank you for shareing what you did. Shareing our experiences shares knowledge and promotes understanding. Thank you also for reminding me.....Things I say here in this forum are simply my viewpoints based on my personal experiences. I am not all knowing, even if I come off that way. Being biased of course, I think I have a good handle on things, but my opinions do not necessarily fit in with other people's lives. Just because someone has a different opinion than me, doesn't mean that I consider them to be wrong. I realize that this world is filled with INDIVIDUAL human beings who each have their own take on things. I am just shareing mine. runs to change her "signature" thank you for reading this, have a great day, pixie

sub4hire -> RE: Should he die for this? (7/20/2004 12:04:56 PM)
I was molested at the age of 4. I was a victim. There was nothing I could do to stop it. The difference between a victim and a survivor is the mere fact a survivor has been educated. Ignorance makes victims. I don't think there are many of us out there who don't wear an occasional dress. Some men excluded of course. That should not make us a victim. We all share a certain sense of security in the good of our fellow man. Nobody can ever be careful enough not to fall victim of a crime. If you are that careful you have a mental illness. Constantly looking over your shoulder not being able to live in the real world without fear. Proud in my opinion has right to be angry. I am as well. The camera dude preyed on people’s ignorance. Everyone does however need to stand up and take control of his or her lives. Educate themselves as best as they can. Without fear. Learn to protect themselves by whatever means possible.

pixieunleashed -> RE: Should he die for this? (7/20/2004 2:01:44 PM)
quote: I was molested at the age of 4. I was a victim. There was nothing I could do to stop it. personal background I was molested by every man that spent more than 8 hours alone with me from the time I was 2 till I was 14. After 14 I was still molested and raped through my teen years only not quite so often. I am shareing this because I don't want to come off like someone that hasn't ever had hardships or hasn't ever been involved in situations where I was victimized. As long as I felt like I was a victim, I was a victim, I had no personal power. The second I realized that even as a child, I took part in the molestation (teasing the molesters after the initial contact, teasing potential new molesters etc...) I could accept my responsibility, and all my power came back. As a child, I liked being molested, I didn't know I was a victim untill somebody told me I was. Now, granted, there are things that freak me out, and sometimes during sex I have flashbacks and everything has to stop, I still have "issues", but they are my issues, I asked for them. And, some of me wonders, if nobody would've ever told me I was a victim, would I have been? Would I have flashbacks feeling yucky at certain points, if nobody told me it was yucky? How much of this victim thing is "programming"? thank you for reading this, have a great day, pixie

Sinergy -> RE: Should he die for this? (7/20/2004 2:11:07 PM)
quote: Do you ever wish you could show them how you see them? I ask that, because if I were in your place, that would be what I would want to do At the close of the 20 hour class, we all share what we feel needs to be shared, well, at the close of class. When it is my turn, I pretty much share the same things I have said here. That I have nothing but respect for their facing the day regardless of what paths they have walked, that I have nothing but respect for their being able to put aside their own person issues and walk through the door each week to face whatever new horrors (mock assaults get more and more intense each week) we assailants throw at them. Then I thank them for allowing me to be a part of their process in the way that I know how, and wish them all the best in their future. Sinergy

muse -> RE: Should he die for this? (7/20/2004 2:19:17 PM)
walking everyday shouldering the burden of past sexual abuse is an immense struggle for me...but i know each second/minute/hour i dwell on it then he wins. letting him win would be worse than anything he did physically to me.

trueneutral0 -> RE: Should he die for this? (7/20/2004 7:00:03 PM)
all rapists deserve to die i've let some i've known of get away in the past for fear of being raped myself(in jail) but that wont happen again any girls out there that still know their rapists name should take revenge, if you can remember so can I and "they" and I want "them" out of the gene pool asap. In my experience the USA is the rapinest place around. I cant even recall all the girls I knew that were raped, but i will always remember my shame in letting those rapist continue on in this world. That which goes unpunished will go on. Not many will punish themselves. edited for violation of forum guidelines

MistressDREAD -> RE: Should he die for this? (7/21/2004 6:38:38 AM)
quote: This is an issue of Publicity, or privacy if you prefer. The invasion of the press and the effect it has on ordinary people. He is not a ordinary person. He is a kinkster. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander and I do believe in a eye for a eye and if He has invaded these womans skirts then I am sure that as the true victums here they are feeling pretty much the same way as he is and think about this, not only did they suffer the humiliation of his actions but must also now relive it when the public eye gets the story of his actions. So in essance while he only faces the consiquence of his actions once, they must suffer thru it twice and in the news. His being shown publicly of his actions of such is simply the turn around of the same action . Whats that old saying............ If you cant take it dont give it? Id have no mercy on him and would be sure to take a pic of his privacy area and put them in the most public of places. His choosing to take his own life is just that, an adult making a choice. If he was truly sorry for what he did he would not be taking actions to gain attention to himself but br doing sumthing that was truly in sum way repaying all these woman whom he invaded and be thinking of thier security and not his. The press might not always protray things as they happen nor as they should but I can be garunteed that most anything thats mentioned has sum truths around it and its up to the readers to gain those facts and follow up to what they read thats a third party source if anyone desires the truths. It is also up to the one that the story is about to make sure that it speaks the truths of the matter. Its time to pay the pied piper. JMO

MistressDREAD -> RE: Should he die for this? (7/21/2004 7:06:04 AM)
Id like to add to this post because I just took the poll and seen the results of it and it does bother Me to know that there are at least 4 persons out there whom feel that this is not such a bad crime. You in My opinion are Dead wrong. What it is is the beginning of a cycle of preying. Now if he had gotten the permission of these ladies he would of been concidered simply a kinkster and would of been acting with in the bounds that a adult should in such actions but by not he has invaded, which makes him a preditor. This is just a first step and fortunatly for woman out there was caught at the beginning of his preying. Think in terms of sumone whom smokes. Its been a proven statistic that smoking leads to more aggresseve uses such as ganga and then even harder drugs . This is a process and progression if you will. His preying is such the same and all tho it was just pics whats the next step? a hand that touches a thigh and a piic took with out permission then what? hmmmmmmmm, I vision a victim tied against their will on a bed with a camera tuned to the site and a preditor invading in who knows what kind of way and maybe even to death. If a person is capable of taking their own life they are most assuradly able to take the life of others for they care not. Are either the lesser of crimes? hmmmm its very hard to give sumone a concience and takes many years of therapy to get them to that point if they have never had one. The words of the freind of this man is sad to Me because he in effect is between a rock and a hard place because it is obvious he cares about his freind bot does not since associated with him want to have to deal with such a issue and have it allso effect his own back yard.(guilty by association) To you freind Id say either get your freind sum professional help or get as far away from him as possible or you too will be sucked into the issue and scene. I allready see you as one of the people whom clicked off the first choice on the poll. I hope this is quite clear to you freind of the preditor. JMO

MistressDREAD -> RE: Should he die for this? (7/21/2004 7:47:01 AM)
Oneee more thing ........ Might I suggest that you read this little tidbit freind of the preditor and gain a little inside into just one sample of the end of a preditor that started with just simple Voyeurism and please read the whole story. Those whom have been asaulted or abused please do not waste your time reading this article, it is not sutible for you. No need in getting your self upset or depressed. Where Voyeurism Can Lead

Sinergy -> RE: Should he die for this? (7/21/2004 10:03:47 AM)
quote: all rapists deserve to die i've let some i've known of get away in the past for fear of being raped myself(in jail) but that wont happen again any girls out there that still know their rapists name should take revenge, if you can remember so can I and "they" and I want "them" out of the gene pool asap. In my experience the USA is the rapinest place around. I cant even recall all the girls I knew that were raped, but i will always remember my shame in letting those rapist continue on in this world. Hello, Frodo: Gollum deserves to die. Gandalf: Yes he does, but many who die deserve life, can you give it to them? Consider carefully before dealing out death in judgement, for not even the wise can see all ends. My opposition to the death penalty is I dont think letting 10000 or more guilty people live out the rest of their natural lives is worth even the possibility of 1 innocent person being put to death by mistake. We are all human, mistakes are made, with new technology many people incarcerated for crimes years ago are being set free based on DNA evidence. I would ask that before you flame my point of view, consider to yourself "what if I was unjustly accused and sentenced to death?" Would you be willing to "take one for the gipper" because you believe the State should put people to death for their crimes? Sinergy p.s. On a related note, stating that you would go out and kill somebody is technically premeditation of intent to commit a capital crime. Might want to rethink how you word that post.

muse -> RE: Should he die for this? (7/21/2004 10:41:08 AM)
i don't wish my wrong doer dead. i hope one day he wakes up and looks at himself in the mirror and it dawns on him what he has done. death would be too easy. let him live with himself the way he left me to live with myself and to look at August 24th on the calendar every year with a knot of apprehension in HIS stomach. let him live with himself.

pixieunleashed -> RE: Should he die for this? (7/21/2004 11:08:00 AM)
quote: This is a process and progression if you will. His preying is such the same and all tho it was just pics whats the next step? a hand that touches a thigh and a piic took with out permission then what? hmmmmmmmm, I vision a victim tied against their will on a bed with a camera tuned to the site and a preditor invading in who knows what kind of way and maybe even to death. If a person is capable of taking their own life they are most assuradly able to take the life of others for they care not. Are either the lesser of crimes? hmmmm its very hard to give sumone a concience and takes many years of therapy to get them to that point if they have never had one. In another post, you talk of hate crimes, and violence issues. You have the slogan "Erase the Hate" under your posting there. The way I am reading you, is that you "hate" criminals, and I ask, how far of a leap is that, to hate criminals, then to hate certain races of people, or people with differet orientations. Erase the Hate....it applys to everything, if you talk about not hateing people, then it is hypocritical to hate anybody, even if they deserve it. To a hater, whomever they hate deserves it. Also, in your generalizations stateing that certain statistics "prove" smoking makes heavier drug use, and perving up someone's skirt leads to rape and/or murder. They don't leave much room for individuality. And I question the source, as I know many people who started smoking young, and didn't touch anything else, I also know boys that used to stalk a girl and didn't go further than that one time, and she didn't even know it was going on. I know people who have done a lot of "questionable" things that were just one time occurances. I think putting everybody in boxes like that, causes things such as.....9/11 happens...and now everybody hates Arabs.....Pearl Harbor happened....so everybody hated Japanese..etc. Talking generally, such as that, feeds hate, it doesn't erase it. thank you for reading this, have a great day, pixie

sub4hire -> RE: Should he die for this? (7/21/2004 11:23:00 AM)
pixie, I'm truly sorry to hear of your tales of molestation. At least you can talk openly about it at this point in time. You've done some healing. Sometimes it does take years and even lifetimes to truly heal. Myself..I was molested as I said. Attempted rape at 13. I knew then it was not right and fought back. Nobody who I have not wanted to lie a hand on me since has. When you find the right man he will walk through life with you being patient. You will eventually be totally healed.

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