For the Pro's out there... (Full Version)

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Kirren -> For the Pro's out there... (2/24/2008 7:03:11 PM)

I have a few questions...Basically I would like some other Dominant input and some ideas on a few varying things..

1..theres a great deal of trash talking that gets done when it comes to Professional Domination..Male Doms thing we shouldnt charge because we dont. Female subs gripe because they dont realize they have an untapped resource. Male subs seem to be repulsed, or view us as a last resort....does this ever influence you? Does it make you look at what you do and question if it is the right thing for you? Or make it harder for you in some way?

2....How do you go about locating professional dungeons? I had a cousin who went into Pro Domination and she said that there was a Pro Dungeon in Louisville Kentucky that was called House of Pain, but I cant find it. And since I live in a more rural area, and getting an established clientel is harder in this area, I had considered driving the three hours to L'ville to work in a Pro Dungeon a few days a week.

3....As a Professional Domme how do you think you would feel about working with a second Domme full time. Not as just a once in a while thing? Is it something that would work for you? How hard do you think it would be?


4...Should you, in a Professional Session, require some sort of legally binding contract stating that what happens is consensual...and that no charges or compensation for injury should be sought?


5....In the same turn...should you also have a contract stating that the client is not affiliated with the police or if they are then the session and the occurances with in the session would not be used for prosecution purposes?


6....In your opinion...what is the best way to get your name out there...aside from web sites...and magazines...?



In advance, I thank all of you  for your answers and look forward to reading each reply...
Kirren



DarkLovelyDomme -> RE: For the Pro's out there... (2/25/2008 7:22:18 AM)

For every person that talks trash, someone else calls to make an appointment. Do what makes you happy and don't worry about the naysayers. Pro Dommes serve a purpose: if we didn't, there wouldn't be the daily influx of clients.

I don't know anything about dungeons in rural areas, since I've always lived in NYC. Really can't speak as to whether it would be better to move closer to a dungeon or drive to your clients, or what.

You would need a fantastic gimmick in order to pull off the two-Mistress thing. Most people are not going to want to pay for two Dommes every time they come to visit, unless you offer a really deep discount. (And probably, it wouldn't be worth doing in the end.) There are definitely Pro Domme duos out there who will do double sessions at a slightly discounted price, and advertise together often, but in the end, they still have to do sessions on their own to make anything.

Some places have mandatory waivers, but they actually don't mean very much. The law considers a lot of play to be assault. There is no legal way to consent to being assaulted. The best policy is to refuse unsafe sessions.

Web sites and magazines are probably your best bets in terms of getting known, particularly in rural areas. Most clients are very discreet, so they won't be telling their buddy at work about the great session they had with you as a word-of-mouth endorsement. Make yourself visible: get your own domain, list yourself in directories and buy ad space at your local eros.com.

Good luck!



Kirren -> RE: For the Pro's out there... (2/25/2008 8:03:43 AM)

Thats for that reply....It was very helpful...and I look forward to more....

Kirren



Dnomyar -> RE: For the Pro's out there... (2/25/2008 10:26:54 AM)

If your seeking to be a Pro which looks like your not yet. Go visit a Pro in person and ask them questions. Like DLD says waivers are'nt worth the paper that they are printed on. Don't try to charge a undercover cop.



Kirren -> RE: For the Pro's out there... (2/25/2008 11:05:17 AM)

I have done a few pro sessions...and they seemed to go okay...but I wanted to move into something more stable, versus the "here and there" type that I have been working with thus far.

I have also been emailing back and forth with Princess Spider, who is a very famous UK Domme, I dont know if any of you know her...and while I am not tutoring under her, I am learning a great deal from her.

These things are mainly so that I can find out a better way than what I have been doing it.

Thanks again...
K.



xxblushesxx -> RE: For the Pro's out there... (2/25/2008 12:00:12 PM)

Hi Kirren;

I'm not a pro, but I can play one for HoneyMaster![:-][8|] *lol*
I did a quick search for the house of pain in Louisville, and the closest I could find was one of those Halloween things.
As has been said, a contract will not cover you in the least.
I'm not sure playing with a police officer is illegal unless you are playing sexually. In that case, if money changes hands, you've got serious problems.
You could advertise on Craigslist, here, the 'b' site, and some other femdom sites I've seen. You already know someone who would set up a website for you...
You just need to move to Louisville and get it over with.
That way you'll have your kitty, you have good friends here as well, and you can set up shop without the travel! win/win/win!!

~Christina

*edited to say that I hope you are your kitty had a very happy birthday celebration!*



MsSaskia -> RE: For the Pro's out there... (2/25/2008 12:03:15 PM)

Maxfisch.com is a very good pro domme board.  You can learn a lot there.  As to going pro, do you have any training or other resources (equipment, wardrobe, advertising funds, etc) to start out your own dungeon?  Will you keep another job for your primary source of income or do you have reason to believe the town you're in will be able to provide you with consistent and enough income to make a living? 



HeavansKeeper -> RE: For the Pro's out there... (2/25/2008 1:24:02 PM)

Are you talking about opening your own dungeon or joining one?

Opening your own is a HUGE investment.  After all your expenses would be planned out, you can safely double that.

Joining an established pro-domme dungeon is worlds cheaper to do than creating one.  (Although being the owner of a classy functioning dungeon probably does rake in serious cash)

DarkLovely brings up a good point, that contracts are worthless in this regard.  But get them anyway.  Any court in the US will see you as an abusive hooker if you can't prove your bottom wanted it.  A carefully written contract (i.e. specific terms of agreement) can help you.  ... Maybe a humiliating experience for him or her... ANYWHO...

My point was this:  A good dungeon will have you protected as an employee, assuming you don't cock it up, ya dig?



MadameTakhisis -> RE: For the Pro's out there... (2/25/2008 2:07:50 PM)

Great questions! Let`s bottom line it "Time is Money" , "You get what you pay for" and "garbage in garbage out"! I first am a martial artist so calling someone Master was not foreign to me when I recognized the lifestyle. I do not believe you can lead without first following, nature herself dictates this! You may not follow with out falling low (taking a child like position). You may not understand without standing under the teacher (Tech-Her). Tech knowledge is having tools. Tools cost money! We love to beat words as well if you could not tell just yet. Smile... The teacher Herself is a tool that has been crafted by someone who has learned. I only see immaturity when I hear people complain about Pro Dominants. No one is living for free other than children. My M.A. Master needs to pay the bills in order to keep the enviroment he teaches from. He has a family who desires his personal time just as much as his students if not more. Why do people think that they are so special that all in life must come to them freely?

As for finding dungeons, "build it and they will come". Most dungeons in Vegas are in garages still! We have just gaind 3 public places with in the last two months.You would think this is Vegas and there should be tons, but nay. Lol... In fact the brunt of the action is ran by escort services with prostitutes pretending  to be Dominant usually hurting or disappointing true subs/slaves. Which leaves most who come to Vegas unaware of the huge experienced community that resides here.

Working with other Dommes is great if there is a mutual respect but that means one usually earns more than the other due to experience. If you're the student take the pay cut graceously. This should be true no matter who sets up the experience.

Legally? There are successful Doms and unsuccessful Doms, most are not successful and end up in jail or hurting someone. The only way to avoid the big house is to not get snitched on! That means handle all bussiness with class not emotion. If the cops want to bust you they will and thats where contracts come in handy, they can not save you but they can reflect your intent. How do we handle these situations? We follow the steps of a successful Master. We have earned these steps by placing a value on his time.

As far as having a cop for a client,on purpose is not good, as a result of searcing for cleints? Hmm how can I say? His title must be changed, hire him before he pays you! I can explain more in detail if you would like to speak more privately. Having the best lawyer in town helps too! This contact you can earn from those who have been successful as well. Successful tools are passed down from teacher to student. Those who choose not to be students and find good teachers usually find these tools through TRIAL and error. To me trial and error cost more than respect and HOMAGE >>> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/homage

In my opinion the best way to get your name out is by doing the dirty work! Find those like you willing to learn at your level and take a student position rather you pay those who guide you or bring them revenue through those you bring to them. Your talent will speak for itself and it will take time to develop. You may not teach what you do not know and if someone is paying you only experience holds value. I am always willing to bring QUALITY (not the immature with more EGO than learning space) people to those who have shown me the way. Hope this helps. The potential to prosper as a Pro Domme is limitless that's why I believe so many speak against it so just like any other profession, stay humble to learn and do the home work.

Good luck







MsCfromMelbourne -> RE: For the Pro's out there... (2/26/2008 2:08:20 AM)

Hi Kirren

I am not a pro-domme but I have friends who have gone into the business and absolutely love their career change.

For example, I think you would learn a lot reading "Private Theatre" by Mistress J (aka Dr Jodie Hanson).  Dr Hanson was a university academic who decided to go into business for herself as a Dominatrix. Her book is fascinating, detailed and well written
http://www.mistressj.com/Author.htm

This interview gives you a taste of her style:
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/05/06/1051987689668.html


I know J's Melbourne dungeon was not expensive at all.  All she needed was builder's scaffolding painted black, a sling, lots of rope, cane, crop and whip, dark curtains and an old cupboard.  The whole thing dismantled quickly if the landlord was coming over. 

The hardest part- I suspect - will be convincing one of the commercial dungeons to give you an apprenticeship.  You don't get paid much as an apprentice, but IMO it is vital to get that hands on training with real clients in a real dungeon before you go out on your own.   There's only so much you can teach yourself by reading. 

Good luck



 



Kirren -> RE: For the Pro's out there... (2/28/2008 6:44:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSaskia

Maxfisch.com is a very good pro domme board.  You can learn a lot there.  As to going pro, do you have any training or other resources (equipment, wardrobe, advertising funds, etc) to start out your own dungeon?  Will you keep another job for your primary source of income or do you have reason to believe the town you're in will be able to provide you with consistent and enough income to make a living? 


My own dungeon is not possible, because I live in a very rural area...I would love to have one...but its not possible.

I do have floggers, paddles, and various other here and there things...I had a chest full of things, but....they were...destroyed when I moved in with My mom three years ago while house remodeling. She found the box and burned the contents. She is the devil.



Kirren -> RE: For the Pro's out there... (2/28/2008 6:45:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper

Are you talking about opening your own dungeon or joining one?

Opening your own is a HUGE investment.  After all your expenses would be planned out, you can safely double that.

Joining an established pro-domme dungeon is worlds cheaper to do than creating one.  (Although being the owner of a classy functioning dungeon probably does rake in serious cash)

DarkLovely brings up a good point, that contracts are worthless in this regard.  But get them anyway.  Any court in the US will see you as an abusive hooker if you can't prove your bottom wanted it.  A carefully written contract (i.e. specific terms of agreement) can help you.  ... Maybe a humiliating experience for him or her... ANYWHO...

My point was this:  A good dungeon will have you protected as an employee, assuming you don't cock it up, ya dig?



I would LOVE to join a pro dungeon...but...there isnt one in My area.



Kirren -> RE: For the Pro's out there... (2/28/2008 6:50:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

Hi Kirren

I am not a pro-domme but I have friends who have gone into the business and absolutely love their career change.

For example, I think you would learn a lot reading "Private Theatre" by Mistress J (aka Dr Jodie Hanson).  Dr Hanson was a university academic who decided to go into business for herself as a Dominatrix. Her book is fascinating, detailed and well written
http://www.mistressj.com/Author.htm

This interview gives you a taste of her style:
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/05/06/1051987689668.html


I know J's Melbourne dungeon was not expensive at all.  All she needed was builder's scaffolding painted black, a sling, lots of rope, cane, crop and whip, dark curtains and an old cupboard.  The whole thing dismantled quickly if the landlord was coming over. 

The hardest part- I suspect - will be convincing one of the commercial dungeons to give you an apprenticeship.  You don't get paid much as an apprentice, but IMO it is vital to get that hands on training with real clients in a real dungeon before you go out on your own.   There's only so much you can teach yourself by reading. 

Good luck







Thanks for the articles...I have been looking over them...and cross referencing everything.

I love what I do...dont get Me wrong...I would do it for free all day, but I love it sooo much I want to make it a job. I have so much fun and I am so adicted to it...Its almost like air.



Kirren -> RE: For the Pro's out there... (3/5/2008 5:10:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

Hi Kirren;

I'm not a pro, but I can play one for HoneyMaster![:-][8|] *lol*
I did a quick search for the house of pain in Louisville, and the closest I could find was one of those Halloween things.
As has been said, a contract will not cover you in the least.
I'm not sure playing with a police officer is illegal unless you are playing sexually. In that case, if money changes hands, you've got serious problems.
You could advertise on Craigslist, here, the 'b' site, and some other femdom sites I've seen. You already know someone who would set up a website for you...
You just need to move to Louisville and get it over with.
That way you'll have your kitty, you have good friends here as well, and you can set up shop without the travel! win/win/win!!

~Christina

*edited to say that I hope you are your kitty had a very happy birthday celebration!*


I wish I could move to L'ville...I hate where I am.



Cradyn -> RE: For the Pro's out there... (3/5/2008 12:14:17 PM)

hehe, my family is from L'ville... And they wonder why i'm the "freak" of the family >.>



mnottertail -> RE: For the Pro's out there... (3/5/2008 12:16:42 PM)

..theres a great deal of trash talking that gets done when it comes to Professional Domination..Male Doms thing we shouldnt charge because we dont.

You wanna waltz that past me one more time please?
Male Dom
Ron



Kirren -> RE: For the Pro's out there... (3/5/2008 1:52:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

..theres a great deal of trash talking that gets done when it comes to Professional Domination..Male Doms thing we shouldnt charge because we dont.

You wanna waltz that past me one more time please?
Male Dom
Ron


I think if a male dom has exceptional skills then he should charge as well...I dont see why they cant.

I mean lets be honest about it...If you have a skill that many have, but that few offer, then it should be acceptable to make money off of it...

Just what I think...

Ive decided I dont want to do the Pro Domme think...I just want to be a professional Sadist....Its not the domination I like...Its the screaming and the blood.



solvr70 -> RE: For the Pro's out there... (3/6/2008 6:43:55 AM)

Western Kentucky could make it tough. i'm sure there are subs/bottoms out there as in Louisville or other places. but just not as densely populated so You are cutting down Your potential client base.

then there is all the legal stuff associated with when tributes change hands to make sure You are well versed in. Ex-strapon play in some states is no problem, in other states could be considered sex



camille65 -> RE: For the Pro's out there... (3/6/2008 6:50:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirren
Female subs gripe because they dont realize they have an untapped resource.
 Since you are open to explaining your post would you please explain the above? As far as I know not many femsubs gripe about pro dommes & I really do not get the 'untapped resource' bit. Being a pro sub, from all that I have read can be a chancy and dangerous venture when on ones own.It feels like you are implying that because someone is a female submissive that they are obligated to 'play for pay'.   
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

..theres a great deal of trash talking that gets done when it comes to Professional Domination..Male Doms thing we shouldnt charge because we dont.

You wanna waltz that past me one more time please?
Male Dom
Ron



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