RE: 'hard limits?'

RE: 'hard limits?' (Full Version)

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adaddysgirl -> RE: 'hard limits?' (2/26/2008 1:00:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble I agree 100%. Hard limits need neither be compromised nor discussed. "Because I don't like it" is a perfectly valid 'reason' to have one in place and, as far as I'm concerned, is 'nuff said on the issue. I had a submissive male contact me and explain that while needles were a hard limit for him, he'd enjoy belonging to me as long as I didn't go there. I explained that having a play partner who had needle play as a hard limit was a hard limit for me. He didn't understand why I wouldn't compromise and got a bit ticked about the whole thing. I tried explaining to him that we just weren't compatible and ended up having to cut off communication because of his inability to respect that 'my' hard limit was just as valid as his own. My reason for my hard limit? I like needle play. Of all the activities available in SM it's my favorite so my reason is 'because I like it'. Because I don't like it is just as valid a reason. Celeste Wooooo.....eeee! Great answer Celeste. Too bad more people (on both sides) didn't understand this simple concept. Would make finding compatible partners a heck of a lot easier! DG

ThunderRoad -> RE: 'hard limits?' (2/26/2008 1:11:07 PM)
But at the same time, I'd like to think a line of conversation could be revealing. Why don't you like needle play? Well...I really don't like the sight of my blood. Ahh, so are you saying it's not needles that give you hard time, but the blood aspects of it... Er right. So what if you were blindfolded... See, the actual limit might not be related at all to the actual think. Perhaps it is. But there's no reason, especially in more-commited partners, that asking "why" isn't warranted. My grandmother once told me many moons ago "When someone says no, ask Why five times". Sage advice that often reveals either other issues or many times, more commonalities.

Justme696 -> RE: 'hard limits?' (2/26/2008 1:33:30 PM)
quote: Too bad more people (on both sides) didn't understand this simple concept. the problem might be in your words; more people <> didn't understand simple that means often that is not that simple..or just not understood..lol to some it might be simple..to others..not. (wish I knew how that worked)

adaddysgirl -> RE: 'hard limits?' (2/26/2008 1:35:20 PM)
Well, i can't really guess how others' conversations go when it comes to discussing hard limits but as for me, i have never had a problem with saying "because i tried it and realized i never wanted to do that again" (which has usually been the case for me). And i consider that sufficient. Maybe others prefer more explanation, perhaps not. But it really still boils down to what Celeste referred to in her post as in "that's just the way it is" and pestering someone about it will be more annoying than anything (unless of course it turns out to be a soft limit, or not-so-hard limit, or whatever). Then that may open the door to further conversation. And BTW....as a grandmother myself, i would tell my grandkids if they ever asked someone why 5 times, they'll probably get a whack in the head (or worse!)...lol. DG

SailingBum -> RE: 'hard limits?' (2/26/2008 1:39:18 PM)
Yanno after reading yet another topic on limits. I have one. She had better obey me the first time. BadOne

CalifChick -> RE: 'hard limits?' (2/26/2008 1:44:31 PM)
Yes Sir, Mr. Bad Sir. Cali

adaddysgirl -> RE: 'hard limits?' (2/26/2008 1:47:12 PM)
i liked Celeste's example of the needle play but for me, i like to use playing with other females. i am not bisexual and have no interest at all in playing with, servicing, having sex with, etc, another female. Sounds simple, doesn't it? What i really respect is someone who can say "Well, i really need that in a partner so i guess we would not be compatible', rather than someone who either has to keep asking why, or who tries to convince me to try it, or who acts like it's okay when it really isn't (been there, done that). So i guess i do see it as pretty simple but true enough, others perhaps just could not see it that way. DG

Justme696 -> RE: 'hard limits?' (2/26/2008 2:13:38 PM)
quote: What i really respect is someone who can say "Well, i really need that in a partner so i guess we would not be compatible', rather than someone who either has to keep asking why, or who tries to convince me to try it, or who acts like it's okay when it really isn't (been there, done that). So i guess i do see it as pretty simple but true enough, others perhaps just could not see it that way. I try it plain and simple too...but lol..mostly the opposite happens. Even when my answers are clear then..they still keep comming with ..Why?

BitaTruble -> RE: 'hard limits?' (2/26/2008 3:30:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThunderRoad But at the same time, I'd like to think a line of conversation could be revealing. Why don't you like needle play? Well...I really don't like the sight of my blood. Ahh, so are you saying it's not needles that give you hard time, but the blood aspects of it... Er right. So what if you were blindfolded... See, the actual limit might not be related at all to the actual think. Perhaps it is. But there's no reason, especially in more-commited partners, that asking "why" isn't warranted. My grandmother once told me many moons ago "When someone says no, ask Why five times". Sage advice that often reveals either other issues or many times, more commonalities. No harm, no foul. I tend to believe people and don't make assumptions that I know better than they do what they like and don't like but, to each their own. The conversation you presented as your hypothetical sounds like one of the parties is new and, perhaps, a bit naive. Do you think the conversation would go the same way if you were engaging with someone who had been around the block a time or two? When someone says 'no' to me, that's good enough. I will say, that I disagree with grandma's advice though and wouldn't call it sage. If, after I said 'no' an adult continued to pester me with a 'why' question over and over, I'd start to get ticked and, just like I did with the male submissive to whom I was speaking, I would cut off communication. I don't like being pestered and I really don't like someone trying to manipulate consent from me. Celeste ::removes an extra 'd' and puts it in her pocket to save for later::

ThunderRoad -> RE: 'hard limits?' (2/26/2008 4:07:37 PM)
Fair enough. I guess I use everything as a way to get to know a person better. I'm not trying to disrespect the limit; far from it. Just trying to understand what makes them tick a little bit. That's my nature to be inquisitive about people, not my intent to be rude.

SubbieOnWheels -> RE: 'hard limits?' (2/26/2008 5:43:16 PM)
That conversation could have gone in another direction: Why is needle play a hard limit? I have diabetes, and I don't want to do anything that will break the skin; it won't heal quickly, and it might get infected. Then I'd have to do some explaining to a doctor - explaining I'd really rather not do. I have a reason for every one of my hard limits. And I respect a Dom who says, well, if that's a hard limit, then I'm sorry; I can't take you on. No harm, no foul. We've both been honest.

MissLily -> RE: 'hard limits?' (2/26/2008 5:48:25 PM)
Nah, don't feel bad. If they can't respect you then they can go look someplace else. BUT, it IS up to you to stand your ground and move on it someone is not respecting you. You're on the net and you get to meet all sorts of people.... Miss Lily

Missokyst -> RE: 'hard limits?' (2/26/2008 7:00:13 PM)
That's fine where partners are more committed. By that time more than likely my partner knows enough about me and my background to understand why I might have that limit. AND respect me enough not to push what I consider a hard limit. Hard limits are just that. Hard. Put in place because I know who I am. Those other limits, those that are icky, but I don't know if I like them or not because I havent done them.. those are my negotiable limits for my partner until I know and trust him well enough. Hard limits are mine. Negotiable untried limits are mine for a partner for whom trust may still be an issue. Normally I am very open with my reasons. But no amount of pestering me for an answer I just don't want to give you is going to suddenly open up a floodgate of relief where I will just cry out.. YES YES YES.. I am ready for YOU to take that limit. Some of us know ourselves that well. In a committed relationship people probably know that about their mate. In a beginning, exploratory thing, where no one is committed, than "that is my limit" should be accepted. Kyst quote: ORIGINAL: ThunderRoad But at the same time, I'd like to think a line of conversation could be revealing. See, the actual limit might not be related at all to the actual think. Perhaps it is. But there's no reason, especially in more-commited partners, that asking "why" isn't warranted. My grandmother once told me many moons ago "When someone says no, ask Why five times". Sage advice that often reveals either other issues or many times, more commonalities.

angelic -> RE: 'hard limits?' (2/26/2008 7:17:02 PM)
~fr~ Without reading more than just a few of the responses and knowing I am echoing many others here, I really have a problem with differentiating 'limits'. When I say no, I do not mean "maybe". Perhaps it is the mom in me, but quite frankly if I say no, I f***kin' mean no. If I am discussing my limits with a potential partner, I may say I am squishy about doing something. This to me leaves the door open to the possibility of doing x y or z. If you ask me if I am in to needle play...that would be a no....not a maybe, not a let's go along with her and then try to change her mind, that means no. And, I may or may not be comfortable enough with you to explain why that means no.

eyesopened -> RE: 'hard limits?' (2/27/2008 1:18:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dnomyar eyesopened. How many of these calls did you get? Simple explanation for the photos. I have a huge file of them. Exibitionist. Some women like to show what they have either thru photos or cam. Do you feel that makes to much competition for you. Why does any of this bother you anyway. WTF? i got my share back in the day and because i'm a sick twisted individual they never bothered me i thought the whole thing was hilarious. Competition???? When have i ever exhibited a need compete with anyone? i was just trying to point out that some of the emails are really no different than the 'obscene phone call' from yesteryear and that it shouldn't bother anyone. Harmless stuff really. How you got your nasty comment in response to my posting about the parallel between some emails and IMs with the 'obscene' phone calls is bizarre. If you were making that comment to the OP then i am still just as confused because i'm not her. Sheesh.

soul2share -> RE: 'hard limits?' (2/27/2008 6:27:14 AM)
I had an experience with someone who wanted to use a hard limit as a form of punishment....long story short, I boogied FAST! He never did tell me what his motivation was, mindfuck, just being a bastard, whatever, but I wasn't giving him a chance to try it. I explain my hard limits at the start of every discussion.....if I get any vibe that the guy is going to push them, then I am outta there. It's only one that seems to be the problem, but it's something that will NEVER change for me, no how, no way. And as far as them needing an explanation as to the background of any limit, hard or soft...bull! The fact that it's a limit for me should be reason enough. As far as your "shreds of sanity".....sounds more like they are standards and/or morals.....stick to them....just because you are submissive does NOT mean that you are not allowed to have them. I don't send pics, I don't do the cam thing, and I don't cyber. Chatting prior to meeting is the time that should be used to learn about each other.....the rest comes in to play later. You are in control, and can walk away at any time....remember that! Don't let some idiot trolling for wanking material color your thinking about the majority of people both here and in the lifestyle.

ruthiexxxx -> RE: 'hard limits?' (2/27/2008 6:50:51 AM)
Coming back to this today, after what seems to have been a overnight furore, i would just like to take this opportunity to thank those who were supportive of my views on the hard limits of safe sex and compromising photos. Frankly i'm feeling a little bruised by this. it seemed such an innocent plea for safety. [though last night's partying cant have helped!]

SubbieOnWheels -> RE: 'hard limits?' (2/27/2008 8:40:49 AM)
Ruthie, some people don't find the idea of some anonymous troll using their pics as wanking material icky. After all, the pics are not the person, and whatever is going through the alleged brain of the troll while he is wanking is probably very far removed from the reality. That being said, to me it's still icky. As for the safe sex part - anyone who tells me that it isn't a problem not to use protection, or that protection 'spoils the sensation' of the experience (and besides they're d/d free, so what's my beef) will get the sharp side of my tongue.

RedMagic1 -> RE: 'hard limits?' (2/27/2008 9:09:18 AM)
If your method of communication "seemed innocent" to you, that might be part of the reason you end up taking trolls seriously in the first place. You spent quite a few posts arguing with people who were not disagreeing with you. Not the #1 way I would recommend to make friends with serious people. There's another "limit" thread going on right now, about anal sex and kidney infections. No one is telling that OP to do anything other than to respect her health limits. Everyone here told you hard limits are hard limits. You were getting mad at people anyway, asking for a "truce," saying you'd be less "pedantic" in the future. Lots more examples I won't bother quoting or mentioning. If you think it is normal for men to be similarly aggressive to you, no wonder you end up getting trolled. Sometimes the subs who shout the loudest, "I am not a doormat," are the ones who most let themselves be walked over. Ya might want to think about that, kiddo.

OmegaG -> RE: 'hard limits?' (2/27/2008 9:13:07 AM)
I caught the rest of the story on the health and safety board. OP, why would you be arguing with an "uber-dom" over a condom? If it's his strong desire to go bareback then it's his preference and it's yours to walk away.

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