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RE: Vampires (bunked or debunked) - 2/27/2008 3:13:36 PM

faerytattoodgirl

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CHOMP!!!!!

i wonder if the reason i like to CHOMP is because of having a half german sister....HMMMMM......my dad married a german at age 16...it lasted like a year.... wonder if it was because she liked to bite?

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RE: Vampires (bunked or debunked) - 2/27/2008 3:14:06 PM

Jeffff

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Oh! Another vampire movie that is da shit: The Hunger. Catherine Deneuve, David Bowie and Susan Sarandon. The esthetic is pure '80s, but it's quite beautiful.

Underworld, Kate Beckensale, nuff said

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RE: Vampires (bunked or debunked) - 2/27/2008 3:18:17 PM

Sweet1Maybe4U

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It's already a proven medical fact that there are genetic and environmental conditions that cause anemia and iron defecincy. The lack of iron in the body causes pale skin, a build up of calcium in the teeth, and can cause blood to bleed out through the gums. Most people with such a case of anemia, or lack of iron, will also tend to have long finger nails, be very thin, have slightly sunken in eyes, and are usually taller than your average person.

OMG FangsNFeet!!..i...i...i...have 7 of them....*blinks........
LOL...actually ive been picked on all my life for being pale skin and having naturally pointed fangs...uh, eye teeth? *shrugs ...and i...ii..i work in dialysis cleaning people's blood!...OMG...am i one and dont know it?

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RE: Vampires (bunked or debunked) - 2/27/2008 3:30:10 PM

Najakcharmer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

No not really. People who believe they are vampires are no different than people who believe they were impregnated by aliens. They're loons. I wasn't talking about people with emotional problems.

Neither was I. So what you're saying is that you are totally unfamiliar with any of the academic research on the subject, but you are quite sure that you are right and I am wrong? If you actually care enough to have an opinion on some subject, I do recommend making it an informed one.

If you look past the drama-boi Goths and deluded roleplayers who just want their lives to be more special, of which there are assuredly quite a number attracted to the "vampire" community, some very interesting data shakes out. It's too early to draw absolute conclusions, but the general academic opinion is that the condition is not a simple delusion.

It's not supernatural either, nor is it anything freakishly unknown to medical science. It is most likely a clinical condition with some pathophysiological aspects. It does appear likely to be related to a heritable condition. Rather than being heritable per se, "vampirism" itself may be a partial or synergistic expression of a known heritable medical condition - specifically autism - interacting with other conditions. The medical data on children that are born to couples where both parents self-identify as "vampyres" is tremendously interesting. A statistically improbable percentage of them are diagnosed with some form of autism. Now there is nothing surprising about two Asperger's parents having an Asperger's or fully autistic child, but in these cases the parents aren't diagnosable and the children are. That's the kind of data that makes clinicians start taking notes.

quote:

People who actually believe they are vampires or that vampires are walking around are loons however.

If you believe that you are the walking Undead and that you have special powers to turn into a bat or that you will die if you enter a church, then I'd say you had a serious delusional condition. In layman's terms, "loon" would just about cover it. If you are an otherwise sane and functional adult who is coping with the clinical condition of "vampirism" in a rational and healthy way, your condition is not delusional.

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RE: Vampires (bunked or debunked) - 2/27/2008 3:35:03 PM

Gwynvyd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild
Yes we can not prove nor can we disprove the existence of vampires. But someone to discount the possibility of their existence, then they might as well tell the millions of Muslums that Allah doesn't exist. Tell the millions of Wiccans that their Gods and Goddesses do not exit or tell the thousands of Celtic Pagans that druids are a figment of their imagination. Why stop there, tell the millions of Catholics that God is a delusion.

Spiritual beliefs are not the same as claims of physical reality. Ask many folk who have spiritual beliefs, including most of the other Wiccans and Pagans I know, and they will say that the spirit world is not the same as the material world. Believing in the spirit world is fine. Getting it confused with the material world, not so much.

I am a scientist first and foremost, but I also have a personal, spiritual relationship with the Goddess and the God. I do not believe in them as literal physical entities so much as archetypal metaphor for that which I hold sacred. Her great Mysteries to me are revealed best in science and medicine, and I have absolutely no patience for poor logic or a lack of good critical thinking on any subject, religion included.   I have a very deep suspicion of any manifestation of religion that insists on replacing, denying or contradicting the physical facts of science. They are two completely different things that can co-exist in the same intelligent mind without conflict.

As to "Celtic Pagans", I'm afraid that Druids *are* a figment of their imagination as they are generally believed in by the modern Neopagan movement. The actual, historical culture that is commonly referred to as "Celtic" or "Druidic" was a whole lot less romantically interesting than the fluff-bunny Wiccan revisionists would like to imagine they were. And from a scholarly perspective, the term "Celtic" is essentially meaningless unless you narrow down the specific time period and geographic area you want to discuss, as the cultures varied quite considerably with time and location over a span of several thousand years and across a good chunk of a continent.   In fact a lot of them hated each other, did their best to wipe each other out, and held diametrically opposing beliefs. So which "Celts" and which "Druids" are you talking about? If you're a modern fluffbunny Neopagan, the answer is most probably none of them; you're imagining a fictional romantic construct because you can't be bothered to crack a book on the subject that wasn't written by Tolkien.

Similarly anyone spouting New Age nonsense about how enlightened the "Indians" were had better be prepared to knowledgeably discuss whether they are referring to the matrilineal, nomadic Dineh sheep herders or the Algonquin scalp hunters, and understand how their cultures, beliefs and social structures changed over time and during their interactions with other conflicting cultures. Anyone who is spouting crap about how the "Indians" believed this or that, or how the "Celts" or "Druids" believed this or that, deserves to be hit upside the head with every textbook on the subject they obviously didn't bother to read. If you really don't know what you're talking about beyond foolish and mostly fictional cliches and platitudes, if you have never bothered actually researching what you like to blather on about, it's really better not to.

*just smiles*

I think this New Age rennasance has actualy made people dumber. Most take the Llewellyn Press style of books to be the honest to Gods ( and Goddess) history books. They have thier place... and can be great for learning.. but they are not history books. Any one who has read about the different tribes and clans over the Isles knows that it is often bloody, convulted, and some times a big mess. While the Romans were great record keepers.. they also had a tainted view of things so that needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Most times they did not respect a culture enough to get the full detail or understand it. Esp. if the locals were fighting back and pissy.

As to Native Americans. Ditto. It is hard to know them unless you are of a tribe. How we ( I am Cherokee) have explained things to others over time is not nessaringly how we refer to it with one another. We are a cliquish lot. Even my um's name has 2 meanings. One that is commonly told to Non Native Americans and those I do not know well.. and then the origional meaning. ( he has a Sioux name) Each tribe is different and there has been lots of infighting.. it is akin to saying all Christians think the same. *smiles*

Thank you for pointing this out.

I am interested to see what the scientific community comes up with in thier studies as you have mentioned.

Gwyn

< Message edited by Gwynvyd -- 2/27/2008 3:41:00 PM >

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RE: Vampires (bunked or debunked) - 2/27/2008 5:23:01 PM

christine1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LilMinxy1

Has anyone read the Lynsay Sands vamp books? The Argeneau Series? Quite entertaining!

do they have lots of nasty sex in them?

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RE: Vampires (bunked or debunked) - 2/27/2008 5:24:21 PM

Najakcharmer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: joanus
I aplaude you wishfulness but if Werewolves, Vampires, or the Frankistein Monster were real we would know by now.

That's not a particularly good argument. Mind you, I don't believe that the empirical evidence supports the existence of any supernatural creatures at all, but we are very far from having accurately mapped all life on this planet. New species are regularly discovered, including large land mammals. So yes, the evidence suggests that there certainly are still things out there that we do not know about by now.

That is not an argument for the existence of supernatural or fantastic creatures. We don't know the specifics of the species we have yet to discover, but we do know that they evolved in this biosphere and that they are going to fit in the same basic mold as all other mammals, reptiles, birds, insects, etc, on the planet. So no fire breathing dragons or shape shifting werewolves, but there could be some pretty nifty stuff out there that doesn't violate any known laws of biology or physics. There could be something as unique as a platypus, for instance, or a fungus that does photosynthesis, or another intermediate plant/animal group.

Scientific inquiry eventually got to the bottom of various legends and stories to find a classifiable species, like the pygmy hippo of Vietnam that had been the source of "dinosaur" stories. I do not believe we will find a "Bigfoot" or a "Werewolf" per se, but I have no trouble believing we may find an ordinary though previously undescribed and perhaps unusual species that may have been responsible for some exaggerated stories. There is always *something* behind a legend, though whether that something is a social institution, a religious icon or an ordinary animal can be hard to tell.

As for Frankenstein, medical science has progressed a bit since Shelley, but you could make a pretty legitimate argument that cloning human parts for transplant and building artificial hearts puts us around that ballpark. We aren't very far from taking it to that level, and I really wouldn't be prepared to swear that a human clone hasn't already been done somewhere. The part about lightning and bolts in the neck is a bit outdated, but the core of that particular story is a current ethical issue. So yes, Frankenstein's monster may well exist, and if he doesn't now, he probably will in the next few decades. Stem cell cloning, anyone?

quote:

Now there are the formentioned people who are covered with hair, the nuts who think they are Werewolve (cant remember the scientific name for than mental disorder) the freaks who think they need to drink blood and the gulible people who think they can suck out people's psyhic energy(BTW the arua camera was disproven when a french scientist put an electromagnet under it and took picture that matched identacly with so called Human Psyhic Energy)

The terms you want are hypertrichosis, lycanthropy and vampirism. The latter is not (yet) a diagnosable clinical disorder, but current research suggests that it does appear to show all the hallmarks of such and will probably be formally recognized. I would not refer to an individual with any clinical condition as a "freak".

Kirlian photography has legitimate scientific and clinical applications; its popularity in metaphysics is incidental, and some would say regrettable. It is not possible to "disprove" the principles of electrography as they have everything to do with physics and nothing to do with metaphysics. I am unsure of what you think this particular experiment proves or disproves exactly, other than that humans emit electromagnetic fields. I believe that seems to be the basic contention of Kirlian photography in any case. There is no evidence that this field has any supernatural meaning, merely that it exists in living things.

Perturbation technique, direct corona discharge and the biofeedback devices that are sometimes called "aura photography" are completely different things, just fyi. It would be helpful to cite which technique you are attempting to discuss.

quote:

But there is nothing unexplain able out the any more Science has replaced superstistion.

Well, you're half right. Science is better than supersitition at formulating good explanations for observed phenomena, but the human brain seems quite literally hardwired to prefer superstition. And there are certainly a good many unexplained things out there, at least with our current set of tools. How long they will remain unexplained has yet to be seen.

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RE: Vampires (bunked or debunked) - 2/27/2008 5:29:44 PM

LilMinxy1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: christine1

quote:

ORIGINAL: LilMinxy1

Has anyone read the Lynsay Sands vamp books? The Argeneau Series? Quite entertaining!

do they have lots of nasty sex in them?

Can be quite steamy, well Vampire sex is the ultimate isnt it?! The melding of minds, the bites, the blood ...oh um, you were saying?

Oh yes, the books. I like them for their humor, their explanation on how vamps came to be, and the mind bending sex.

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RE: Vampires (bunked or debunked) - 2/27/2008 5:32:26 PM

LilMinxy1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

CHOMP!!!!!

i wonder if the reason i like to CHOMP is because of having a half german sister....HMMMMM......my dad married a german at age 16...it lasted like a year.... wonder if it was because she liked to bite?

Im German, I like to bite. Well, I'm many things. Regardless, I like to bite.

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RE: Vampires (bunked or debunked) - 2/27/2008 5:53:44 PM

LilMinxy1

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I F'n Give the fk up. Not the right thread I know, nothing to do with vamps, well kinda maybe a little, but regardless, here I am, this page is open. This is where I am going to scream. I GIVE THE FK UP. DONE. AHHHHH.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

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RE: Vampires (bunked or debunked) - 2/27/2008 5:59:15 PM

faerytattoodgirl

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marry me

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RE: Vampires (bunked or debunked) - 2/27/2008 6:03:54 PM

LilMinxy1

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You are golden my sweet! Here I am, ready to smash my laptop and everything near me and you go and make me smile. Golden I say, golden.

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RE: Vampires (bunked or debunked) - 2/27/2008 6:16:12 PM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

One of my friends observed a werewolf up close in the winter of about 1976. He estimated it had a mass of 250 to 300 kilogrammes. I believe him.

Of course it could have just been a hairy, fat guy. I see them all the time.

Maybe it was Marlon Brando....

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RE: Vampires (bunked or debunked) - 2/27/2008 6:18:28 PM

faerytattoodgirl

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if you marry me and come to canada you get free health care and free dental.

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RE: Vampires (bunked or debunked) - 2/27/2008 6:54:00 PM

Dregg13

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

No actually I am 100% sure that vampires don't exist

Im just curious to know since you are 100% sure that Vampyres don't exist, why on your list of interests on your profile you have vampires listed as an interest you are curious about. Just wondering, that's all.

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RE: Vampires (bunked or debunked) - 2/27/2008 8:20:52 PM

LilMinxy1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

if you marry me and come to canada you get free health care and free dental.

I would LOVE to live in Canada! From what I have seen it is BEAUTIFUL! Would be quite a change from sunny Cali though! Here it is Feb. and I was outside dangling my hands in the pool. Tomorrow I plan to clean it (hasnt been used all winter because I havent put the heater in) and jump in then float around in the sun. It has taken for now to loose my tan so its time to get it back!\
But I think it would be worth the change!
Wish I could up and leave!!
~Kisses

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RE: Vampires (bunked or debunked) - 2/27/2008 8:26:45 PM

LilMinxy1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dregg13

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

No actually I am 100% sure that vampires don't exist

Im just curious to know since you are 100% sure that Vampyres don't exist, why on your list of interests on your profile you have vampires listed as an interest you are curious about. Just wondering, that's all.

OMG, you HAVE to be kidding me! Im quite interested to know the answer to that too!

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RE: Vampires (bunked or debunked) - 2/27/2008 9:11:09 PM

slaveboyforyou

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quote:

Im just curious to know since you are 100% sure that Vampyres don't exist, why on your list of interests on your profile you have vampires listed as an interest you are curious about. Just wondering, that's all.

I didn't know it was. I went through and clicked stuff when I joined several years ago. I haven't looked at those interests in quite sometime. It is possible I clicked a few by mistake. I do actually enjoy horror in literature and film. So it's possible that's why I clicked; I don't remember. I enjoy fantasy, science fiction, and horror; but I don't turn those enjoyments into a belief system. The forums aren't exactly the place to ask me personal questions. I told you that I was done with this argument. I'm not going to convince you, and you're not going to convince me. Let it go.

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 2/27/2008 9:16:39 PM >

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RE: Vampires (bunked or debunked) - 2/28/2008 6:18:26 AM

joanus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

Ok I was nice about this I stayed in my box and kept my mouth shut, but now Im letting this tiger out of its cage. Brace your selves this kitty has some nasty claws.

That is not an argument for the existence of supernatural or fantastic creatures. We don't know the specifics of the species we have yet to discover, but we do know that they evolved in this biosphere and that they are going to fit in the same basic mold as all other mammals, reptiles, birds, insects, etc, on the planet. So no fire breathing dragons or shape shifting werewolves, but there could be some pretty nifty stuff out there that doesn't violate any known laws of biology or physics. There could be something as unique as a platypus, for instance, or a fungus that does photosynthesis, or another intermediate plant/animal group.

Yes Science is expanding by leaps and bounds and every day more and more superstions and supernatural elements are explained or out right debunked.

Scientific inquiry eventually got to the bottom of various legends and stories to find a classifiable species, like the pygmy hippo of Vietnam that had been the source of "dinosaur" stories. I do not believe we will find a "Bigfoot" or a "Werewolf" per se, but I have no trouble believing we may find an ordinary though previously undescribed and perhaps unusual species that may have been responsible for some exaggerated stories. There is always *something* behind a legend, though whether that something is a social institution, a religious icon or an ordinary animal can be hard to tell.

Now "Bigfoot" I find a probabal animal. Why? Because for thousands of years people have told stories about a giant ape-man all over the world. With no way to communicate between them, Some how all of the desriptions of the animal are the same. Bigfoot (America) Yeti (west Asia) Yasha(japan), exept for the name the creature is discribed exactly the same way even though the stories and places are a great deal aways.

As for Frankenstein, medical science has progressed a bit since Shelley, but you could make a pretty legitimate argument that cloning human parts for transplant and building artificial hearts puts us around that ballpark. We aren't very far from taking it to that level, and I really wouldn't be prepared to swear that a human clone hasn't already been done somewhere. The part about lightning and bolts in the neck is a bit outdated, but the core of that particular story is a current ethical issue. So yes, Frankenstein's monster may well exist, and if he doesn't now, he probably will in the next few decades. Stem cell cloning, anyone?

Yes I believe that mans Immortality and the road to better living is laten in some far reach of the human genetic code but as long and we are held back but "moraly rightous" man kind is doomed to destroy its self.

The terms you want are hypertrichosis, lycanthropy and vampirism. The latter is not (yet) a diagnosable clinical disorder, but current research suggests that it does appear to show all the hallmarks of such and will probably be formally recognized. I would not refer to an individual with any clinical condition as a "freak".

Kirlian photography has legitimate scientific and clinical applications; its popularity in metaphysics is incidental, and some would say regrettable. It is not possible to "disprove" the principles of electrography as they have everything to do with physics and nothing to do with metaphysics. I am unsure of what you think this particular experiment proves or disproves exactly, other than that humans emit electromagnetic fields. I believe that seems to be the basic contention of Kirlian photography in any case. There is no evidence that this field has any supernatural meaning, merely that it exists in living things.

Perturbation technique, direct corona discharge and the biofeedback devices that are sometimes called "aura photography" are completely different things, just fyi. It would be helpful to cite which technique you are attempting to discuss.

Sorry I don't spend my time researching crackpot threories an so called scientific "experaments" I actually have a life.

Well, you're half right. Science is better than supersitition at formulating good explanations for observed phenomena, but the human brain seems quite literally hardwired to prefer superstition. And there are certainly a good many unexplained things out there, at least with our current set of tools. How long they will remain unexplained has yet to be seen.

No the human brain is more wired for stupidity (take a look at this thread) and denial. People williingly choose unrational things over rational. Take these paranormal shows (Ghost Hunters) they people go into old building in search of Ghosts and eveny time....Bingo! they find one, are they good? or just lucky? Mostly their just stupid, one creak of a floor board and they run screaming from the house calling it possesed. idiots.

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RE: Vampires (bunked or debunked) - 3/1/2008 6:39:12 AM

missfrillypants

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LilMinxy1

Oh, and as for psy vamps, I've had people tell me that I am one and thats my problem. They say thats why when I go in a room I can feel when someone is upset or angry or happy. Sometimes I feel like I cant breathe when there are angry people, eventhough they haven't shown that they are angry. I believe everyone has the ability to be sensitive to these things.....some dont realize its there and some block it out. PsyVamp? Idk, but I did read up on it a long time ago, and of course watched the doc on vamps. Love me some good vamp stories!! Interesting thought, these PsyVamps.

that sounds more like an empath to me if all you do is feel what other people feel or notice their feelings. i happen to know someone who's a psi vamp... if i'm around him for too long i start to get tired and he starts to get more and more energetic. i have observed this in other people also (before someone asks, i noticed it even BEFORE the psi vamp thing came up.), and other things about the way he behaves that make me believe it. i don't think vampirism is something i could scientifically prove to anyone, and i don't think there are any people walking around out there that have powers comparable to a bram stoker or anne rice character, but we're not quite sure of everything that's in people yet, their minds especially. i believe that eventually a lot of things that science is now saying is impossible will end up being at least partially true and having a scientific basis we can't get close to now... when you read things about quantum physics and stuff (i only have a basic understanding of a few concepts, but it's interesting!) that sounds really supernatural, too. these tiny tiny tiny teeny particles that move together to create bigger and bigger pieces of solid matter, for instance. that's at least as unbelieveable as psychic vampires or someone who is sensitive to light and feels there is some kind of nutrient or energy they can only get from the blood of other people. it's like the way people used to believe there were these giagantic tentacled monsters that attacked ships, dragons and all kind of beasties they had legends about... saying that the kraken is only a giant squid who's mistaken a boat for a whale doesn't mean that the thing is any less monstrous. saying that the legend of the lost city of atlantis is only a metaphorical retelling of the legend of a city off the island now called thera doesn't mean there is no lost city.

of course... i believe myself to be a faerie, so i'm not really the person to ask.

p.s. joanus... i've seen many episodes of the show "ghost hunters" where they said they were unable to prove or disprove a haunting or that the haunting was actually nothing more than weird energy that makes people nervous coming off of some faulty electrical equipment or some bad plumbing or something. but you're right. people are going to keep believing or disbelieving anything they want.

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