Animal rights group,not FDA behind million dollar beef recall (Full Version)

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Owner59 -> Animal rights group,not FDA behind million dollar beef recall (2/27/2008 7:01:22 PM)

Another example of how the republicans/Bush has failed the US.

So it takes the F`n Humane Society to do the government`s job?


"The action came nearly three weeks after the Humane Society of the United States released a video showing workers at the plant using forklifts and water hoses, among other methods, to rouse cattle too weak to walk. In addition to issues of animal cruelty, the video raised questions about whether so-called downer cattle were entering the food chain in violation of federal regulations.
Although the Humane Society said at least four non-ambulatory cattle had been slaughtered for food, the USDA had repeatedly said it had no such evidence. On Sunday, federal officials said for the first time that they had evidence such cattle from Hallmark had been processed for food."

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/18/7127/

and

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-beef18feb18,1,3896598,full.story?ctrack=1&cset=true




dollparts85 -> RE: Animal rights group,not FDA behind million dollar beef recall (2/27/2008 7:49:02 PM)

PETA has been showing videos of similar things for years...




Sanity -> RE: Animal rights group,not FDA behind million dollar beef recall (2/27/2008 8:12:29 PM)

Are you going to blame every bureaucratic blunder on Obama, if he's elected President? Anything that isn't absolutely perfect in government. Obama's fault?




DomKen -> RE: Animal rights group,not FDA behind million dollar beef recall (2/27/2008 8:49:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Are you going to blame every bureaucratic blunder on Obama, if he's elected President? Anything that isn't absolutely perfect in government. Obama's fault?

Consvertives will or have you somehow forgot 1993-2000?

In this case GWB has reduced the FDA budget and taken no action to improve oversight of the meat packing industry so yes, GWB is to blame as chief executive and as a decision maker who has made the problem worse.




pahunkboy -> RE: Animal rights group,not FDA behind million dollar beef recall (2/28/2008 5:36:18 AM)

fox reported the system works.[per the recall]and it was overkill.
we have saftest food supply in world. [bullshtt]

it was a whistle blower who trigger the recall- this when bush stipped whistle blower protection law. 

i am discuted that we probaly wont pull away from the war for life mode-  i might not vote in the primary.   if i dont go to the mall the mall will come to me.

if i dont go on a drive by- a drive by will come to me.




Sanity -> RE: Animal rights group,not FDA behind million dollar beef recall (2/28/2008 5:44:13 AM)

So you're saying that Owner is acting exactly like a Conservative.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Are you going to blame every bureaucratic blunder on Obama, if he's elected President? Anything that isn't absolutely perfect in government. Obama's fault?

Consvertives will or have you somehow forgot 1993-2000?

In this case GWB has reduced the FDA budget and taken no action to improve oversight of the meat packing industry so yes, GWB is to blame as chief executive and as a decision maker who has made the problem worse.




Jeffff -> RE: Animal rights group,not FDA behind million dollar beef recall (2/28/2008 6:01:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dollparts85

PETA has been showing videos of similar things for years...


Great.... Those poor protein deprived people. If they would just have a really good steak they would be alot less cranky

Jeff




OrionTheWolf -> RE: Animal rights group,not FDA behind million dollar beef recall (2/28/2008 6:27:30 AM)

Yeah and imagine how it will be if they are in charge of all of our medical care. More evidence that the government cannot do a good job at much of anything.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Another example of how the republicans/Bush has failed the US.

So it takes the F`n Humane Society to do the government`s job?


"The action came nearly three weeks after the Humane Society of the United States released a video showing workers at the plant using forklifts and water hoses, among other methods, to rouse cattle too weak to walk. In addition to issues of animal cruelty, the video raised questions about whether so-called downer cattle were entering the food chain in violation of federal regulations.
Although the Humane Society said at least four non-ambulatory cattle had been slaughtered for food, the USDA had repeatedly said it had no such evidence. On Sunday, federal officials said for the first time that they had evidence such cattle from Hallmark had been processed for food."

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/18/7127/

and

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-beef18feb18,1,3896598,full.story?ctrack=1&cset=true




Owner59 -> RE: Animal rights group,not FDA behind million dollar beef recall (2/28/2008 6:48:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Are you going to blame every bureaucratic blunder on Obama, if he's elected President? Anything that isn't absolutely perfect in government. Obama's fault?


There`ll be no need to do that,because Mr. Obama will actually run and fund the FDA as it should be and once was.

Mr Obama will place people in charge of the FDA who actually know about FDA stuff and not one of his frat buddies.He won`t cut the budget and staff,with that stupid "get the gov. off people`s backs" BS.

All Mr. Obama has to do is his job and that particular agency will run right again,all on it`s own.He just has to let the competent professionals do there job.

Same with NASA,the CDC,the military and FEMA.Get out the political hacks,put in the pros and manage/provide oversight.

Though Clinton fibbed about a BJ,he at least staffed the important and sensitive positions of government with competent people.




Owner59 -> RE: Animal rights group,not FDA behind million dollar beef recall (2/28/2008 7:12:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Yeah and imagine how it will be if they are in charge of all of our medical care. More evidence that the government cannot do a good job at much of anything.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Another example of how the republicans/Bush has failed the US.

So it takes the F`n Humane Society to do the government`s job?


"The action came nearly three weeks after the Humane Society of the United States released a video showing workers at the plant using forklifts and water hoses, among other methods, to rouse cattle too weak to walk. In addition to issues of animal cruelty, the video raised questions about whether so-called downer cattle were entering the food chain in violation of federal regulations.
Although the Humane Society said at least four non-ambulatory cattle had been slaughtered for food, the USDA had repeatedly said it had no such evidence. On Sunday, federal officials said for the first time that they had evidence such cattle from Hallmark had been processed for food."

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/18/7127/

and

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-beef18feb18,1,3896598,full.story?ctrack=1&cset=true



lol well,lol, if you put people who are against government and who say that the gov. is no good in charge of government,then you`re pretty much guarantied to get bad gov.

That`s obvious as realizing rain makes you wet.

Is it any surprise that if you put a beef lobbyist/ex-soon-to-be-again beef industry CEO in charge of checking our meat supply,that you`re going to get these kinds of results?

This is a product of the anti-regulation crowd and an example of what business will do if left un-checked and without scrutiny.

The USDA seal on a steak used to mean something.Now,under Bush it means industry self regulated and good luck.




Archer -> RE: Animal rights group,not FDA behind million dollar beef recall (2/28/2008 7:55:43 AM)

Self regulation can be done and done well in two words Underwritters Laboratories.
Might be time for someone to start the same idea for the food industry.






Owner59 -> RE: Animal rights group,not FDA behind million dollar beef recall (2/28/2008 8:11:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Self regulation can be done and done well in two words Underwritters Laboratories.
Might be time for someone to start the same idea for the food industry.






Archer,very true.But inspectors are needed too.The "pro-business"let-them-harm-us types,don`t even want things to be UL listed.

It`s the heavy hand of government.Ya know?

Did you watch the vid?

Would you want a company to sell that cow meat,from that cow to the public?

They would if we didn`t continually check them.

Government regulators protect us from dangerous carnival rides,unsafe cars and boats,bad food, un-healthy drugs/additives,etc.

When it comes to protection of the food supply and regulation,less is not more. 

And besides,the UL doesn`t do beef.




Archer -> RE: Animal rights group,not FDA behind million dollar beef recall (2/28/2008 8:32:52 AM)

Wow where did the idea that I though the UL would do beef come from?

UL isn't Government, it's those terrible insurance companies. LOL

I would prefer that the Government was least involved possible beyond setting minimum standards.
UL (Private industry) standards exceed Consumer Product Safety Commission (Government) and they do a better job in my view. So my proposal was we need a UL type group to be formed by the Business Insurance providers to protect themselves from suits as well as protecting the consumer. I'm sure that the company that wrote the business insurance for that meat processor will be canceling that policy as soon as they possibly can. (and they should).
So rather than accepting that the company will self regulate (something that evidence points to the contrary) I say have the industry regulate it through a UL type group. Hell have UL (the insurance companies) open up a food divission.

Proposing a solution rather than pointing a finger at the problem or who's responsible.

BTW saw a couple differnt reports on TV that showed the vids and was appalled. I'm not saying don't have inspections I'm saying a private insurance based inspection tends to get a businesses attention faster than the off chance that one of the handfull of government inspectors will catch them. Same way that Insurance companies catch more occupational safety problems and enforce the fix by holding the insuranc hammer over the heads of management. And they do this much more efficiently than OSHA inspectors.





Sinergy -> RE: Animal rights group,not FDA behind million dollar beef recall (2/28/2008 8:35:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Are you going to blame every bureaucratic blunder on Obama, if he's elected President? Anything that isn't absolutely perfect in government. Obama's fault?


[sarcasm]

One cannot absolve the complicity of the Carter administration in all this.

[/sarcasm]

To clarify for you, Sanity, one of Congress' jobs is oversight.

The only thing the Republican controlled Congress actually tried to oversee for years was Clinton's sex life.

This is not really the Dipshit In Chief's responsibility, it is, however, Congress'.

Despite having a Democratic control of both houses, there are enough of the former Republican obstructionist incompetents to prevent Congress from doing anything, and not enough people to make Congress do the job we elected them to do.

Sinergy

p.s.  I have to ask, are you wearing Charlie Brown's shirt in your picture?




dollparts85 -> RE: Animal rights group,not FDA behind million dollar beef recall (2/28/2008 9:42:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

quote:

ORIGINAL: dollparts85

PETA has been showing videos of similar things for years...


Great.... Those poor protein deprived people. If they would just have a really good steak they would be alot less cranky

Jeff


LOL The Humane Society are a bunch of vegans as well. :) As is pretty much any animal rights group. It would be speciesism for them to value a dogs life over say a cow or pig's life.

Google will find you dozens of videos on the meat packing industry. The best is probably "Meet your Meat"...you can find it on google or youtube. It's very graphic though




pahunkboy -> RE: Animal rights group,not FDA behind million dollar beef recall (2/28/2008 10:02:24 AM)

cavemen ate rocks. now we eat chemicals




Termyn8or -> RE: Animal rights group,not FDA behind million dollar beef recall (2/28/2008 10:04:07 AM)

The issue of the UL is valid, but we can't really go that way. Cattle too weak to make it to the chopping block are not necessarily diseased, they may be just malnurished. Proper supplements are given by the "good" places. But then some "places" lobbied to be allowed to stop giving the supplements to pigs and hogs for the last month before slaughter. Somehow, and this surprised me, they (the gov) would not allow it.

Now if the cattle are diseased, that shows up pretty fast, there is a paper trail. Lawsuits could happen, but the effects of malnutrition do not show up for a long time, so there is little chance for any consequences.

And that is the crux of why the UL works. I work in electronics and I understand it just a bit. Sometimes I must do things not quite by the book, but I have to bear in mind that if I do anything that makes the product unsafe, I could be held liable. But that is not necessarily the same concept, the UL is in place because, if for no other reason, people have life insurance. If your toaster shorts out in the middle of the night and burns the house down, kills you, you are just as dead. Life insurance must pay off. Thus it is in their best interest to fund the UL.

The food industry therefore does have some motivation to assure their product is disease free, but they have no such impetus to assure that it has the nutrients it is supposed to have.

Take the case of houses, in some parts of the US that are like 40 years old or less. They fall apart. The thought now is make it outlast the mortgage and there will be less trouble. A five year warranty is a joke, and any longer is a lie because all they have to do is go out of business and open up under a new name. I live in a 100 year old house built by a Man, not a company.

Did this Man think he was going to live another hundred years ? no, he built several and sold them. But the ethic then was to build things to last. Now business is so shortsighted they would literally cut open the goose that laid the golden egg, if he , err, she existed.

And the FDA doesn't want evidence, they are probably staffed by industry officials who are basically moonlighting, or actually might be getting paid for their ability to attain such a post. The USDA is certainly that way, or is was a few years ago. I have a list of who sits on the USDA board, but it is a few years old, this list was unique in the fact that it had beside each name, the company who each of them workS for, not workED for, workS for.So why would the FDA be any different. I might have the names mixed up but you get the idea.

But I find this an interesting situation to say, it's a sort of irony that I like to uncover. Here we have an animal rights group most likely that wants people to be vegetarians, showing a graphic account of actual malfeasance (IMO) on the part of a slaughterhouse.

Ironically, IMO the proper response by the authorities should be "Yes, they should only be slaughtering HEALTHY animals".

Of course there is one other thing, those sick cattle, the meat may not have been meant for sale to the public, it may have gotten used to feed other cattle. That doesn't make sense to me, but it does to an accountant. It's like "Cousin Fred is very sick, let's kill him and eat him". Does that seem logical from a nutritional standpoint ? Want to eat something that is sick ? Would eating something that is sick make you healthy ? Doesn't make any sense, until you concern yourself with stockholders and the quarterly report.

As long as the old adage applies ; 'Money talks, bullshit walks' applies we are going to have these situations.

BTW, have you ever seen the video of the old time ritual slaughter method ? It is outlawed in quite a few countries. Ostensibly mandated in the Bible, many governments have found it too cruel to allow.

That would be enough to make most people opt for the chicken.

And in closing, I know someone who works for one of the largest meat packing plants in the US, it's in Kansas but I forget the name right now. Even normal operations would disgust most people, and the kid, one of their youngest executives, wants out. The kid did great in school, but they made him work every job there before he was allowed one of the big chairs. He is quitting this year, as soon as his contract is up.

At best it is gross. The mechanism by which meat is delivered to our table has a darkside. A very dark side indeed. And that is under the best of conditions.

Of course the flipside of this is ; Try to feed 300,000,000 people and coddle the cattle. Try to do that and spend millions fertilizing the soil so even the grain and veggies have the proper nutrients. I don't think it can be done. Insure that all of our food is nutritious and healthy, with this kind of volume that is hard to do.

We would be paying five bucks a carrot and thirty bucks a pound for meat. That is not all that feasible. The reality is your market share in the business depends on price and your production capacity. You are charged with the job of maximizing profits. What do you do ?

Y'know it just occurred to me that there is another old way the was better than the new way. Ranchers used to have cattle drives, the cattle would literally walk to market and be sold. Sometimes this was more than a few miles. It never occurred to me before that this inherently assures the quality of the beef. They probably have also walked off some fat, so when they weigh in, you get more meat per pound.

And they were able to walk. I think that a good sign.

Sweet progress.

T




Archer -> RE: Animal rights group,not FDA behind million dollar beef recall (2/28/2008 11:54:13 AM)

It is precisely the money talks aspect that makes the insurance companies and a UL type program viable.
Money talks (Cancel your liability insurance and force you to find another carrier, that's a HUGE hammer to hold over a company)
Loss Control Specialists (people who inspect the insured business to make sure they are playing by the rules) have been used to deal with worker safety. They can be used to check for product liability as well the way UL does.
UL works because of product liability insurance moreso than life insurance.
And food is a product that has liabilities they simply have not been handled the way many other products have been.
I'm saying it's time for the Insurance companies to be looking at doing this, sending out loss control specialist trained in Food safety, and make sure that the insurance companies are not left paying out huge claims because the meat packers have been playing fast and loose.





SugarMyChurro -> RE: Animal rights group,not FDA behind million dollar beef recall (2/28/2008 12:14:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
The only thing the Republican controlled Congress actually tried to oversee for years was Clinton's sex life.

This is not really the Dipshit In Chief's responsibility, it is, however, Congress'.


This is a digression, so I'll keep it brief: while congress may pursue oversight as a part of its legislative function, it is absolutely the responsibility of the executive to enforce the laws as enacted. Obviously, there are some shared functions in both creating laws and enforcing them.

Just sayin'...





SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: Animal rights group,not FDA behind million dollar beef recall (2/28/2008 12:31:02 PM)

im a cafeteria manager at a school.  we were notified of this on about the 1st of feb.  a hold was placed on patties and beef crumbles, waiting to see what came of the investigation.

eventually, the only thing we were not permitted to serve was some crumbles, with one specific production date.

i think they should have shot the sick cows in the head and moved the carcass with the forklift.  that woulda been more humane.  if you eat steak, a cow gets hurt.  period.

but i have yet to see any credible evidence that any of the meat from the sick cows was put into the food supply.

and in the meantime, theres a gazillion pounds of the stuff in the warehouse, awaiting 2 health dept folks to come escort it to the dump.




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