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RE: US is the world's #1 incarcerator - 2/29/2008 6:16:43 AM   
aviinterra


Posts: 208
Joined: 11/3/2006
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quote:

Yet we're also #1 in immigration, both legal & illegal, so some people think we're the greatest.


To be honest, 99.5% of those people don't give a rat's ass about the U.S., they are coming just to work a few years and return to their own country, which they will readily defend and admit that they like much better ( see all the foreign flags in windows of any major immigrant neighborhood ). The U.S. has done a great propaganda job of marking themselves as the land of flowing rivers of cash. Unfortunately, now that the dollar is declining, so is the immigration- embassies take visa applications without the wait lines that used to be so usual. And all of that is kind of scary, because no matter how unloyal, etc. the new immigrants are/were, they were the ones driving this country forward, not the average Americans who are way to comfortable living in debt. So I would really not point out immigration as a barometer of how others see us. A lot of good scientists, engineers, businessmen are going to China because it is the most booming market- does that make China so great?

quote:

"Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time."


That is a dangerous statement. Going fully by this logic, the U.S. should still be a British colony and no change to the law should ever occur- because we should all be obedient sheep and swallow all that is fed to us, living in fear of incarceration. Hmmm...the U.S. population is actually not far off from that. Kind of scary.

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: US is the world's #1 incarcerator - 2/29/2008 6:18:01 AM   
MichiganHeadmast


Posts: 726
Joined: 8/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

But it's got nothing with guns. Nope.





I can't see how it can have anything to do with guns; if people have respect for one another, they don't go 'round shooting.


Guns don't incarcerate people, people incarcerate people. 

Or something. like that.

Anyway, one thing is for sure.  You can't simultaneously release the violent from the jails, and ask the law-abiding public to be disarmed and defenseless.  Not morally, anyway.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: US is the world's #1 incarcerator - 2/29/2008 6:39:58 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Those are lies.
Are they?  Or is he simply mistaken?  There is a difference.
 
The United States does not have the highest murder rate in the world, there are no metal detectors in any schools around where I live,
He did not say all schools.  I will not say that you are a liar but I will suggest that you are mistaken.  Boise is close to where you live and they have metal detectors in schools there.

and most Americans don't give a rats ass what you think.
Since you can't possibly know most Americans or what they think this would seem a rather presumptuous statement.
So it would appear that the person whom you have called a liar is in fact, mistaken on one point and correct on all of the others.  It would follow that you are mistaken but not a liar.
I do hope this has been enlightening and informative.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed
Highest murder rate in the world, highest incarceration rate in the world, legalized torture, metal detectors in schools ... and Americans have convinced themselves that we envy them their standard of living.




(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: US is the world's #1 incarcerator - 3/2/2008 10:51:26 AM   
Termyn8or


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Joined: 11/12/2005
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thompson, I think thee missed it, that was sarcasm I think, actually I HOPE !

Here is the problem. The main root of the problem. We have more criminals here.

Now let's quick get straight on my position here. There should be no drug laws, except as in the case of administering them to another. When a doctor writes a prescription there must be culpability, but I should be able to just go get any drug I decide I want or need.

So if we let all the drug dealers out there will still be a hell of alot of people locked up. We still have plenty of murderers and rapists here. And thieves.

Don't even get me started on thieves, almost everyone has stolen something at least once. Many people make a habit out of it. Many do not get caught for a long time. And some, the lucky ones, some of them I know personally, stopped before the odds caught up with them. But many don't. They of course wind up behind bars. The ones who stopped in time are sitting at bars instead.

You take our youth in this country and interact with them, you will find many are about as sharp as a bowling ball. Let me tell you, if you are smart enough to steal and get away with it long term, you are smart enough to work and make a good living. Look at the average age of those who become incarcerated. They are at a time in life when they are grown physically, but not mentally.

First of all there is no respect for another's property rights, they think they can just take what they want. Another given is that they don't think they will get caught, but are incapable of analyzing the situation correctly and possibly not do it. Last but not least, they do not even think about what will happen to them if they do get caught.

All this adds up to what happens to our younger population. Some steal to get drugs, some steal to make a living, some actually do it for sport.

Those formative years in this country are,,,,well they are fucked up. People too much want their kids to have a good time, to have fun. That is the time they need to learn values. Instead they are watching movies and playing video games. Christmas and birthdays teach them to be materialistic, and they have a penchant for shiny things.

Stealing for sport ? Let me tell you about this one guy. He always ripped off the same place. He had some sort of vendetta against the owner. It was a head shop. He would go around with briefcases of jewelry, pipes, bongs and sell them. One time he finally got something of value, a gun, he threw it away. There is something wrong with this guy's brain.

There is something wrong with alot of people's brains. Although I do not hang with that guy at all anymore, he was named Trinketina. A joke, but an appropriate one. This guy has been in and out of the joint so many times they just stamp his card. The only useful thing he stole other than money is a bunch of steaks from a restaurant. A long time ago he stayed with me for a short time. He's got these steaks and he almost got me busted with him.

I can understand his extreme morality because of not paying me any rent he wanted to contribute, but he got the damn steaks from the restaurant in the same building ! Then the fuckhead breaks into the rental office and makes off with not only the cash, THE CHECKS. He gives me a bunch of money, and then my rent check I had written a few days before ! I looked at him and said "Are you fucking crazy ?". I had to throw him out.

Got my key back all that, but not too long later my apartment got broken into and they stole my stereo, guitar and a few other things. The doorjamb was pried, the wood damaged, and there was the evidence. A screwdriver. But the twist is that it was my screwdriver and came from inside the apartment. Upon further examination, the damage caused was not able to allow the lock to be jimmied.

He wound up in prison, and if he didn't I probably would have kicked his ass. I did not charge the guy a dime for living there. I supplied all the food, drugs and beer. He did not need to steal. Here I think I am helping a brother out and he jeopardizes me in that way, and stealing from the rental office is pretty much shitting where you eat.

I call myself a sociopath, but I was never like this guy. It's like a disease. It did not all go for drugs, he also wanted a nice jacket, this and that.

And with no skills how else was he to get what he wanted ?

There is a factor in our society also, that makes young guys horny but does so before they have any great degree of self control. Having sex too young is actually sociopathy, but rapists have it in spades. The need is so great that they discard any human thoughts or feelings to get what they want. They will objectify a certain Woman and lay in wait to catch her. Again they, for some stupid reason, think that they will not get caught, and in that case, the need is so great that the consequences do not matter.

Object. You know that word has many meanings, and by that I don't mean the definitions of different objects. "The object of your desire", "Objectification". People are obsessed with objects. In fact I believe the word obsession shares roots with the word object. There is a good reason for that apparently.

So on the whole I agree that we do lock up the wrong people, but I have to admit that we lock up the right people as well. It is all going downhill. Childrearing seems to be a thing of the past. Just let them play, the schools will take care of the teaching. That attitude over the last few generations has led to this.

And I do not think there is any easy way out. Got any ideas ?

T

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: US is the world's #1 incarcerator - 3/2/2008 11:15:19 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Those are lies. The United States does not have the highest murder rate in the world, there are no metal detectors in any schools around where I live, and most Americans don't give a rats ass what you think.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed
Highest murder rate in the world, highest incarceration rate in the world, legalized torture, metal detectors in schools ... and Americans have convinced themselves that we envy them their standard of living.





Heh heh heh heh  You're proud of having a murder rate less than the countries on that list? However, you do have the highest murder rate in the developed world

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: US is the world's #1 incarcerator - 3/2/2008 2:17:11 PM   
Griswold


Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

According to a new report, 1 out of every 100 Americans are in prison. It's even worse for minorities. 1 in 15 blacks are in prison and 1 in 36 hispanics are in prison. The statistics show the United States incarerates more people than any other country in the world. In 2008, more than 2.8 million Americans were in jail. That is more than Russia and China combined.



Highest murder rate in the world, highest incarceration rate in the world, legalized torture, metal detectors in schools ... and Americans have convinced themselves that we envy them their standard of living.




I never believed that...but I have it on very good authority that you do envy our Tupperware.

(in reply to Loveisallyouneed)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: US is the world's #1 incarcerator - 3/4/2008 8:25:05 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

thompson, I think thee missed it, that was sarcasm I think, actually I HOPE !

Here is the problem. The main root of the problem. We have more criminals here.
Please consider that 70% of those in prison are there for drug related crimes.  If we do not consider these people as criminals then the 30% left in the joint do not constitute any larger percentage of the population than any other nation. 


(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: US is the world's #1 incarcerator - 3/4/2008 8:31:40 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Those are lies. The United States does not have the highest murder rate in the world, there are no metal detectors in any schools around where I live, and most Americans don't give a rats ass what you think.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loveisallyouneed
Highest murder rate in the world, highest incarceration rate in the world, legalized torture, metal detectors in schools ... and Americans have convinced themselves that we envy them their standard of living.





Heh heh heh heh  You're proud of having a murder rate less than the countries on that list? However, you do have the highest murder rate in the developed world

Please define "developed world".
Are you suggesting that Uruguay,Russia,Poland,South Africa, Lithuania,Latvia,Estonia and Ukraine are not developed countries?
thompson






(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 28
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