RE: Angry with Master

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ownedgirlie -> RE: Angry with Master (3/1/2008 10:53:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx HoneyMaster says that even saints get angry. There is such a thing as righteous anger. There is indeed. And I get angry at lot, trust me - ask my ex husband!. I just don't feel that way toward my Master. quote: Just because we are 'submissive' doesn't mean we are 'stepford wives' (His terms, not mine) Mr. Wonderful's terms, too. He likes me for my uniqueness. He's told his other slave - "If I wanted a duplicate, I would try to clone her." quote: I do get angry. I am allowed to express it, and I attempt to do so respectfully. (this is not always successful) The final say-so regarding an issue is His, however, unless it involves unmentionables, and then, it is a joint decision. Thanks for the recap on your relationship, and I'm glad you are in such a dynamic that works well for you. What that has to do with my dynamic, however, I really don't know. quote: I feel that sometimes we have a 'who's the twue submissive' thing going on here, and I just want to say that there is no such thing. Why do you see my relationship as a sort of competition? You have challenged my submission on another thread too, and I'm curious why my slavery bothers you so. I am who and what I am. I have no need to compete with anyone. I please my Master and I am living true to myself. Why does what I write affect and bother you so? quote: It's what works for you. Um...duh? quote: Obviously, someone in a long distance relationship, or an on-line relationship can be more 'submissive' than one who lives it day to day 24/7, and has done so for sometime. This is amusing to me in so many ways it's hard to come up with an appropriate reply. There are things you really do not know about my slavery, and in fact, are none of your business. Why the passive-aggressive dig? I don't understand that. quote: Another thing to think about is what is being given. Absolutely. Which is why your comments on my slavery are so peculiar. Because you have no idea. quote: If submission comes totally naturally to one, and they crawl behind their master begging for punishment and/or mercy, are they really more submissive than one who has to struggle against society's conditioning and other life experiences in order to submit? I don't know. Once again, submission is not a competition to me. Is it to you? Also, I don't know anyone who does what you just wrote. Do you? quote: What works for me, will not work for many. What works for many, may not work for me. I repeat: Duh! quote: I respect your opinion, and hope that you respect mine. No you don't. Or you wouldn't have spent time on two threads taking personal digs at me. Or is this how you demonstrate respect...? quote: Sorry, OP, for this mini-hi-jack. I felt the need to say what I said. I hope you feel better, and I hope you are over whatever is bothering you so much about me. Seriously, I would recommend you focusing on your own relationship and happiness, and not needing to compete so much. (Edited to fix a quote screw up)

AquaticSub -> RE: Angry with Master (3/1/2008 11:04:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: awakenednj Is being angry with your Sir a completely unacceptable thing? What do you do if your sub/slave is angry with you? (Especially if you know you could have handled something slightly better....) Any thoughts on the topic of anger towards the dominant would be welcome... It's a pretty acceptable thing in our house, provided I handle my anger like an adult. I'm his girl, not a robot. It's pretty unrealistic for any owner or master to think they will never make you angry. You just have to figure out how to handle it in your relationship. Valyraen prefers that issues come out and get discussed - even if it means a fight now and then. 'Sides, our fights usually end in giggling and cuddling. I don't think we'd want to give them up. They don't bring in any contempt or disrespect. It's all about what the people in a given relationship are able to handle and process in a healthy manner. Others will do things differently. It's about what works for you.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Angry with Master (3/1/2008 11:15:46 AM)
Awakened, I am sorry your quest for insight turned into posts between me and someone else. I won't post anymore toward that dispute on your thread. I do want to add, however, that my ability to channel my emotions is the product of a desire to do so, and a lot of effort toward achieving it. Last year I was reading on various Buddhist philosophies, and I read one that stated (paraphrasing): Unhappiness comes from desire, so if you are unhappy, change your desires. I just want to add that I am unhappy when angry at my Master, so I desire not to be angry at him. Training myself to prevent such anger was not just a snap of my fingers. There was indeed "screaming and gnashing of teeth" as I resisted my natural inclination to react to feeling hurt and confused by being angry...to something other than anger. When I learned to do that, I found a sense of peace I would rather not be without, and I like to share it with others, too. I wish you the best.

sblady -> RE: Angry with Master (3/1/2008 11:18:22 AM)
To the OP: I'm not sure how or why anger would be considered unacceptable. As others have stated, it's the way you express this anger. I've been angry with my Dom even when some of the things that made me angry were simply beyond His control. I'm careful how I express my anger as I know if I'm disrespectful, I'll have to deal with the consequences. We both realize that as human beings, we will have normal human reactions and emotions. We also respect each other enough to control our discussions when we're feeling emotional. I recently mentioned to Him that He's made me neurotic because I honestly cannot believe how emotional I am with Him (good, bad or otherwise). Take care and be happy!! Life is too short to hold on to anger....

CelticPrince -> RE: Angry with Master (3/1/2008 11:21:33 AM)
quote: Even if you know and have admitted you did not do something you really should have? If you have failed your sub in some way- doesn't that earn a degree of disrespect? awaken, Anger is not accelpted, disappointment is, If I have done something that was viewed as wrong by a sub, then she is expected to to advise me of such and why she is disappointed. After filtering that input, if she was correct in her view I would acknowlege that fact. CP

CelticPrince -> RE: Angry with Master (3/1/2008 11:24:51 AM)
quote: Anger and resentment toward my Master have never been acceptable. If I ever felt one of these things, I needed to figure out why, pronto, and get past it. It's very doable. Anger is an emotion that rarely enters our relationship. We both screw up as we are fallible humans. We deal with it and move on. We both trust that the other has the best of intentions for each other and the relationship we desire. With that in mind, benefit of the doubt is given and issues are dealt with. girlie, as always, I do like your style. CP

sweetwenchie -> RE: Angry with Master (3/1/2008 11:25:24 AM)
Feeling anger is not what i personally would consider improper. What you do with those feelings of anger however can be a different thing altogether. Allowing that anger to become a display of disrespect and lack of self control is something i consider childish. When i have felt anger i have taken some deeps breaths, and tried to analyze why i felt the way i did. Usually getting His imput helps a great deal, and can be done in a way that preserves the dynamic. i am just as human and falliable as the next person, however i will strive to act in a way that shows Him respect, as well as respect for myself. Not sure if any of my ramblings made sense, i do believe i need a few more jolts of caffeine.

littlesui -> RE: Angry with Master (3/1/2008 11:26:23 AM)
I get mad and blurt out what i am feeling...and usually regret it later. I am human and have feelings. On the flip I always apologise profusely. The way I look at it, the same impulses that make me angry also mean I'm frank and truthful.

DiurnalVampire -> RE: Angry with Master (3/1/2008 11:28:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: awakenednj Is being angry with your Sir a completely unacceptable thing? I am not a Sir, but my boys are allowed to be angry at me. It happens, they are human, as am I, and things I do might upset them inadvertantly. So, is being angry acceptable, yes. Is acting like a fool becasue you are angry acceptable... no. Handle it like an adult. quote: What do you do if your sub/slave is angry with you? We talk about it. I find out why they are angry. If it is something I legitamately did wrong, I will apologize. If it is something I didnt do wrong and they are just beign touchy about, I will tell them that. AS long as they are mature enough to discus things like rational adults, we are fine. If they are so angry they cant do that, they are made t takea time out, cool off and then they can come to me with their grievance. I will apologize for something I did wrong once. If they press the issue after I have eaid I am sorry becasue they want to hear how sorry I am, they will be sent away to grow up. Being angry happens, handling it well takes practice. DV

CelticPrince -> RE: Angry with Master (3/1/2008 11:31:24 AM)
quote: But how do you keep a submissive from ever feeling angry? and how do you deal with it when they do? tsatste The last 24/7 submissive I had lasted for 5 years, and would stil be going cept for an ageing mother she had to move back to. There are two secrets for that success, 1 I work hard at heading off doing something that might cause her a problem. The msecond was as I stated, before the move in it was explained in the clearest terms possible, I will not allow anger per say at it would be A DEAL KILLER ABOVE ALL ELSE.. CP

ownedgirlie -> RE: Angry with Master (3/1/2008 11:33:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CelticPrince girlie, as always, I do like your style. CP Thank you, CP. I appreciate the kind words.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Angry with Master (3/1/2008 11:40:46 AM)
I thought the following information would be appropriate to this thread. The site I'm linking it to is not the original place I learned it. I first read about it in the book "The Seven Principles to Making Marriage Work" by John Gottman of the Gottman Institute. But the philosphies are the same, wherever one may read them. The link provides some extra tips and insight: http://www.relationshipresourcecenter.com/html/fourhorse.html "The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse" are behaviors that, if they occur regularly, are very good predictors of either a failed or a terminally unhappy relationship. If you discover that any of these occur often in your relationship, you and your partner are most likely heading for trouble. The "Four Horsemen" are: 1. Criticism versus Complaint. A complaint addresses only the specific action at which your partner has failed. A criticism is global. It attacks the mate's character or personality. Here is an example: Complaint: "There is no gas in the car. I'm aggravated that you didn't fill it up like you said you would." Criticism: "You never remember anything! You can't be counted on for your word!" 2. Contempt. Contempt is composed of a set of behaviors that communicate disgust. It includes, but is not limited to: sneering, sarcasm, namecalling, eye rolling, mockery, hostile humor and condescension. It is primarily transmitted through non-verbal behaviors. It does not move toward reconciliation and inevitably increases the conflict. It is always disrespectful. Research shows couples that display contempt for each other suffer more illnesses and diseases than respectful couples. 3. Defensiveness. These behaviors convey the message, "The problem is not me. It's you." From this position you imply that, because your partner threw the first stone, they are responsible for the entire conflict. You avoid taking responsibility for your own behavior by pointing to something they did prior to their complaint about you. You do not acknowledge that which is true in what they are saying about your behavior. 4. Stonewalling. In relationships where intense arguments break out suddenly, and where criticism and contempt lead to defensiveness, and where more contempt leads to more defensiveness, eventually one partner tunes out. This is the beginning of stonewalling. The stonewaller acts as if he (research indicates that 85% of stonewallers in marriages are husbands) couldn't care less about what the partner is saying or doing. He (sometimes she) turns away from conflict and from the relationship. Any form of disengagement can be stonewalling. If either you or your partner regularly engages in ANY of these behaviors during fights, you have some work to do if you want to ensure the success and happiness of your relationship. The Four Horsemen corrode the love that is at the core of an intimate relationship.

ashling -> RE: Angry with Master (3/1/2008 11:56:55 AM)
Anger is a valid emotion just as happiness, sadness, fear and a host of others. If a relationship is to work both parties must be able to express what they are feeling. You need to find a way to express your anger, ideally in a non-judgemental way. Otherwise it is likely that you will carry it inside where it will grow and fester leading to further resentment, which is not good for you or your relationship. I hope this has been of some use to you and wish you all the best.

RCdc -> RE: Angry with Master (3/1/2008 12:11:26 PM)
Anger isn't really the issue - it is how it is dealt with and how one reacts that matters to Darcy. the.dark.

Maya2001 -> RE: Angry with Master (3/1/2008 12:29:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CelticPrince quote: Even if you know and have admitted you did not do something you really should have? If you have failed your sub in some way- doesn't that earn a degree of disrespect? awaken, Anger is not accelpted, disappointment is, If I have done something that was viewed as wrong by a sub, then she is expected to to advise me of such and why she is disappointed. After filtering that input, if she was correct in her view I would acknowlege that fact. CP Anger and disappointment are 2 very seperate feelings/emotions, sorry but people come equipped with a full range of feelings, we do not come with off/on switches, a person can feel anger and can choose to internalize it, or they can vent it or discuss it/ internalizing and venting in are unhealthy way to deal with it and over time can lead to problems in the relations either because the sub/slave has vented in a way that is disrespectful or hidden their honest feelings and eventually it becomes a wound that festers. The appropriate way to deal with is to discuss and if you dom is mature enough and respects your honesty would want to know, so that the issue can be resolved, he may not necessarily given in to the anger but at least acknowledges and accepts it so he learns your emotional limits, much like he learns to read and learn your bodies limits to physical pain, so he knows how far he can push you safely, emotions also have safe limits which can be pushed to, and a dom needs to know where those boundaries are if it becomes a topic that is not allowed to be discussed or you choose to internalize chances are the limits will one day be breached and the relationship will come to a bitter end. For a Dom to ignore and pretend they do or should not exist is foolhardy

RCdc -> RE: Angry with Master (3/1/2008 12:30:37 PM)
Goodness blushes - I'm not chasing you over the boards today honest![:D] But you are posting some interesting statements I wanted to comment on. quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx HoneyMaster says that even saints get angry. There is such a thing as righteous anger. Yes, but righteous anger only works upon those that follow the same morals as the saint. Else it is wasted. quote: I feel that sometimes we have a 'who's the twue submissive' thing going on here, and I just want to say that there is no such thing. Absolutely there is no such thing as a 'true submissive'. But there are many different relationships. quote: It's what works for you. In the relationship I am in, it is what works for us but that is because Darcy decided this is how it was to be. quote: Obviously, someone in a long distance relationship, or an on-line relationship can be more 'submissive' than one who lives it day to day 24/7, and has done so for sometime. I don't get this statement at all. Only just above did you claim there was no 'true' way, yet this statement defines a truism. LDRs or online can be more submissive? You are talking totally different dynamics for one and every relationship is different regardless. My submission was never any more or less when I was LDR with Darcy, than as I am with him now we are not LDR. It may evolve, even when I am instructed to move in with him, but it will not become more or less than it is now. quote: Another thing to think about is what is being given. If submission comes totally naturally to one, and they crawl behind their master begging for punishment and/or mercy, are they really more submissive than one who has to struggle against society's conditioning and other life experiences in order to submit? I'm not even sure where that came from - or why you used it and what example it was meant to explain. But again, if they are being themselves and happy - it's not up to anyone to say if either is less or more. the.dark.

Maya2001 -> RE: Angry with Master (3/1/2008 12:41:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie I thought the following information would be appropriate to this thread. The site I'm linking it to is not the original place I learned it. I first read about it in the book "The Seven Principles to Making Marriage Work" by John Gottman of the Gottman Institute. But the philosphies are the same, wherever one may read them. The link provides some extra tips and insight: http://www.relationshipresourcecenter.com/html/fourhorse.html "The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse" are behaviors that, if they occur regularly, are very good predictors of either a failed or a terminally unhappy relationship. If you discover that any of these occur often in your relationship, you and your partner are most likely heading for trouble. The "Four Horsemen" are: 1. Criticism versus Complaint. A complaint addresses only the specific action at which your partner has failed. A criticism is global. It attacks the mate's character or personality. Here is an example: Complaint: "There is no gas in the car. I'm aggravated that you didn't fill it up like you said you would." Criticism: "You never remember anything! You can't be counted on for your word!" 2. Contempt. Contempt is composed of a set of behaviors that communicate disgust. It includes, but is not limited to: sneering, sarcasm, namecalling, eye rolling, mockery, hostile humor and condescension. It is primarily transmitted through non-verbal behaviors. It does not move toward reconciliation and inevitably increases the conflict. It is always disrespectful. Research shows couples that display contempt for each other suffer more illnesses and diseases than respectful couples. 3. Defensiveness. These behaviors convey the message, "The problem is not me. It's you." From this position you imply that, because your partner threw the first stone, they are responsible for the entire conflict. You avoid taking responsibility for your own behavior by pointing to something they did prior to their complaint about you. You do not acknowledge that which is true in what they are saying about your behavior. 4. Stonewalling. In relationships where intense arguments break out suddenly, and where criticism and contempt lead to defensiveness, and where more contempt leads to more defensiveness, eventually one partner tunes out. This is the beginning of stonewalling. The stonewaller acts as if he (research indicates that 85% of stonewallers in marriages are husbands) couldn't care less about what the partner is saying or doing. He (sometimes she) turns away from conflict and from the relationship. Any form of disengagement can be stonewalling. If either you or your partner regularly engages in ANY of these behaviors during fights, you have some work to do if you want to ensure the success and happiness of your relationship. The Four Horsemen corrode the love that is at the core of an intimate relationship. Yes I am aware of that site , but this is not something that falls on the shoulders of one partner and that they are forced to do all the bending, it has to be a joint effort with both partners taking responsibility to making a relationship work. In many relationships were one partner is doing all the bending and the other keeps and continues pushing the limits and has no respect for limits it eventually will lead to an abusivess relationship which is not healthy either. If this OP dom is telling her that any feeling of anger is wrong and he keeps riding her hard and not respecting her emotional limits than the relationship is not going to be healthy no matter hides her feelings or not..... we do not have enough details about the OP relationship to make that judgement....so advising her to suppress all feelings of anger without knowing the circumstances may not be the wisest thing to do, she may have legimate cause to feel angry

ownedgirlie -> RE: Angry with Master (3/1/2008 12:49:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Maya2001 If this OP dom is telling her that any feeling of anger is wrong and he keeps riding her hard and not respecting her emotional limits than the relationship is not going to be healthy no matter hides her feelings or not..... we do not have enough details about the OP relationship to make that judgement....so advising her to suppress all feelings of anger without knowing the circumstances may not be the wisest thing to do, she may have legimate cause to feel angry The OP did not say her dom told her it was wrong. She asked others what their views are. The OP did not say her dom is riding her hard or disrespecting her emotional limits. The first accurate statement in your post is that we do not have enough information about the OP. No one advised her to suppress her feelings. In fact, since you are quoting my post, I didn't advise her anything. I told her how I get by, and suppressing my feelings doesn't even come into it. I have learned to choose what I wish to feel (if happiness is a choice, than isn't anger also a choice?) and how to attain it. She may indeed have a legitimate cause to feel angry. Maybe her dom is a complete careless asshole. I really don't know. That's why I didn't give her advice. My Master, however, is not a complete careless asshole. And he has put a lot of effort into teaching me to work my way out of the abyss of hell I used to live in, and to reach the happiness that I never thought I could achieve in my life. The Four Horsemen list that I posted just happens to be a piece of really good information that I found helpful to me over the years, so I thought I would share it. I'm not going to apologize for the things I find interesting or the way I live my life, and I will continue to share it as, from the looks of my email box lately, there are people who actually appreciate it. I wish you well.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Angry with Master (3/1/2008 1:16:08 PM)
OG, you may not get angry, but you certainly get catty. Blushes wasn't attacking you, and didn't merit "duh." Maya made statements beginning with "if." Conditional statements are neither accurate nor inaccurate. You said she was being inaccurate anyway. You are constructing a fight where there is none. I would prefer my sub got angry with me, instead of speaking to me as you are speaking to others on this thread.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Angry with Master (3/1/2008 1:18:15 PM)
Dark, what I meant was that it is easier to be submissive when your SO is not right there. I know it is easier for me when HoneyMaster isn't here sometimes because He is not micro-managing me the way He can tend to do when He is here. It's just very different and much easier. It's like imagining marriage and living it...In my imagination, we will live happily ever after, He will always be handsome, charming, kind and considerate, and I will be loving, dutiful, warm and beautiful.... Then along comes... bills sickness um's silly temper tantrums misunderstandings insecurity and any multitude of things that make up every day life... and that's when the hard work comes in. Girly, I totally agree with you regarding contempt. Imo, that is the one emotion, along with lack of caring that will break a relationship into bits. The reason why I disagreed with some of the things that you said is because imo, (and in psychiatry) it is not normal or good to hide anger even from yourself. Not everyone can be, or should be at a point where they do not feel anger for their SO. I wanted to let the OP know that it really is ok, to have anger, and, (depending upon the parameters of your relationship) to even display it and to discuss it. It's how relationships grow. I believe a Dom who expects no anger in a relationship, really expects the submissive to pretend or to channel that anger into something else. I don't believe that is healthy at all times. I believe that subs/slaves should know that they can be (at different times), angry, jealous, upset, selfish, sad, and a whole plethora of emotions just like any 'normal' person. Because we are people. We do attempt to temper our actions and reactions, and that is good. Most of us want more than anything to give to others and to help others, and that is good too. I just think that too many come into this expecting to be the perfect this, or the best that. And yanno....we can't. We can be perfect for the one we're with. (sort of) And we can be perfect for our own relationships. (kind of) But, I just don't want others thinking that in order to be submissive you have to totally subjugate all of your feelings and emotions. That's ALL I tried to say. I stand by it.

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