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Safewords - 3/3/2008 2:35:59 AM

chezzy52

Posts: 220
Joined: 6/26/2007
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I read about this a little bit in another thread that had more to do with the length one should wear a gag so i will askk all the Dominas out there..do you insist on using safewords and if you have your sub gagged,do you for example place a set of keys in his/her hand to drop on the floor as a signal to stop.Of course y'all might have wall to wall carpeting and that would shoot the hell out of that idea.Any thoughts please??

Post #: 1

RE: Safewords - 3/3/2008 2:43:01 AM

petpete

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i would suggest placing electrodes of monitoring the heart beats of the person who is under the torture test.. When the line stops bopping and all you see is just a straight continues sound and line then the session should be deemed as over.

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RE: Safewords - 3/3/2008 4:44:21 AM

DesFIP

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Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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I'm gagged a lot. Unless you're in a vacuum bed or a gas mask with a breathing tube, normal gags do not prevent all sound. So although keys or a clicker can work, you can also scream through the gag or just have a series of three grunts. Personally since I tend not to think about grunting, we've worked out a system based on my fists. If I slowly rotate my wrist, he knows that one is getting numb. If I open and close both hands quickly, he knows I have a problem and takes out the gag to ask me about it.

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RE: Safewords - 3/3/2008 4:58:07 AM

ItalianSMistress

Posts: 427
Joined: 1/19/2007
From: Niagara Region Ontario Canada
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I never have, and never will, have use for a safeword.

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Post #: 4

RE: Safewords - 3/3/2008 5:03:07 AM

MsSonnetMarwood

Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
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I don't really use safewords.

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Post #: 5

RE: Safewords - 3/3/2008 8:39:00 AM

aidan

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Joined: 5/28/2005
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I use safewords on a person-by-person basis.

When I first play with someone, there's a safeword, that's a non-negotiable. Price of admission, I'm afraid. It's for my safety and the safety of the person I'm with.

After that initial encounter, however, I'm perfectly willing to drop a safeword. If there's that connection and awareness between us, where she can gauge how much to lay on, and I can read what to present and how to flip her switches, then I see little need for one. Sometimes you get that connection immediately and sometimes it has to build and you have to learn each other.

My friend Skylar, who took me under her wing early on as a mentor of sorts, is one of those people I just had an instant chemistry with. We had talked and gotten to know each other for months before our first meeting, and yes, we had a safeword that first time. We still do today. But it's a formality at best. She can read my reactions and body language like a book, and she's always pushing me just past that point where I was last time.

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RE: Safewords - 3/3/2008 8:42:30 AM

SweetDommes

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We always give them a safeword, but we have never had a boy use it. Closest was when rob's arm was going numb from an odd twist in the chain - once we fixed that he was fine. We watch reactions, and so far have been very good at reading them. We have the safeword in case we mis-read. For non-verbal safe signals - typically it's just knocking on the wall 3 times. We've done the key thing, but since I have a history of losing my keys - searching for the damn things tends to kill the mood lol.

< Message edited by SweetDommes -- 3/3/2008 8:44:23 AM >

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RE: Safewords - 3/3/2008 8:43:42 AM

MisPandora

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From: Philadelphia, PA
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It depends on the person, the situation and the nature of our relationship or knowledge of one another. Early on, I'm more inclined to give the sub a safety net, especially if THEY are new. I also instruct my partners that we *always* have an open line of communication between us. I am not beyond them saying, "Ma'am, my fingers are tingling." That doesn't "offend" my dominance. (However, a necrotic arm or nerve damage would!)

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Ms World Leather 2004
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"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to chezzy52)

Post #: 8

RE: Safewords - 3/3/2008 4:56:44 PM

MsCfromMelbourne

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Joined: 2/15/2007
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I always use safewords now - for perverse, reverse reasons than you might think

If there's no safeword, I have to really carefully monitor the physiology and body language of the bottom and make my best guestimate when to stop/switch play.

As a sado-masochist, I therefore have to go lighter, because I will not be getting any verbal/visual stop/slow signs. Always better to err on the side of caution and not cause physical or psychological injury, right?

But if the other person has a safeword (and is lucid and sensible enough to use it), I can keeping going right to the very teetering edge. Safewords enable more extreme scenes for both of us. So safewords are not "soft" - quite the opposite. No safeword = soft play in my world. Only the toughest bottoms submit to being pushed all the way to their safeword. Usually we hit my limits before theirs and I don't feel short changed out of an extreme scene.

There's one other really selfish benefit for me. Whenever a sub/bottom bitches to me - or anyone else - they that didn't enjoy the scene for some reason, there's one simple reply:

So why didn't you safeword??

Works every time to shift responsibility back to the bottom. Where it usually belongs if he or she has failed to communicate during the scene and then tries to blame the Domme/Top.

Also sometimes people safe word for reasons you could never have guessed no matter how much a super-Domme you think you are. Things like sore knees or being too afraid to continue. Or Mistress is accidentally standing on my little toe in her stilletto boot (too true!!)

So my advice: beware the sub wanting "meta-consent" (no safeword). It makes the Domme's job much harder and detracts from the intensity IMO.

OP, safe signs can be use instead of safewords, usually just simple thumbs up (=OK) and thumbs down (=come round here and talk to me).

I suppose by making the bottom hold something like a ball, if it drops I know he has passed out. But frankly, you should be able to tell if someone is passing out without distracting gimicks like balls IMO.

Often eager newbies love to "help" a scene by being asked to stand nearby and help me watch for the safe signs. I also like inviting experienced Dommes to watch the face and front while I do the back if the bottom is going to drop so far down into sub-space they forget all safewords and safesigns....and even their own name (which is a great place to be!).

Other people are usually more than happy to join your scene in a helpful capacity. I return the favour whenever asked.

But if your scene is just one-on-one, you need to communicate very, very carefully, and the usual "traffic light" safewords are an easy way to do that.

BTW - I see no difference whatsoever between "red", "mercy" and "please stop, my (insert part) is numb/hurts". They are all safewords ie designed for safety.

< Message edited by MsCfromMelbourne -- 3/3/2008 5:32:58 PM >

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Post #: 9

RE: Safewords - 3/3/2008 9:05:33 PM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
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Safewords carry value because they help facilitate communication. If people have alternate means to achieve that communication, fair enough.

Cheers,

Sea

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Post #: 10

RE: Safewords - 3/3/2008 9:06:13 PM

chezzy52

Posts: 220
Joined: 6/26/2007
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I happen to agree with MsC 1000%.The number one priority should be the safety of the sub,afterall they are putting an enormous amount of trust in the Domina..it only seems logical.

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)

Post #: 11

RE: Safewords - 3/3/2008 9:08:58 PM

LadyHibiscus

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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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I'm not a safeword kind of gal....but if I have a person in a predicament situation, there is a signal or something set up---drop something that they have to hold on to if everything is okay, for instance. Ms C's method is spiffy, too!

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Post #: 12

RE: Safewords - 3/4/2008 12:47:55 AM

KindLadyGrey

Posts: 358
Joined: 11/6/2007
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I always make sure all the subs I play with know they have a safeword. That's for their peace of mind. I've never had a sub tell me they didn't want one, although I have had a few tell me they would never use it. In all fairness, none of them ever did.

Honestly, if a sub told me he/she didn't want a safeword, I'd be tempted to ask them to sign a liability waiver. . .*

*I kid, I kid!

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 13

RE: Safewords - 3/4/2008 10:55:01 AM

MisPandora

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chezzy52

I happen to agree with MsC 1000%.The number one priority should be the safety of the sub,afterall they are putting an enormous amount of trust in the Domina..it only seems logical.

As a domina who has had several subs in 12 years fail to use a safeword after numerous checkins, or become unable for whatever reason (space, pride, stubborn or stupid) to use it, I've found that whether they are there or not, *I* need to be responsible for my own actions whether they use the safeword or not -- and if that means I have to pull back or check my actions, then so be it. If I find I'm having to check my swing or pull back, there is part responsibility for me that *I* may have misjudged this person's capabilities. And, it's not just the bottom enduring whatever I can toss at them -- it's how they're coping that day to what I'm dishing out that day -- and that varies. While it's nice to be able to say "You didn't tag out", they're still fucked up physically and/or emotionally. Not on my watch, thanks.

Safewords are a nice safety net, but they should not be the be-all end-all to safe SM play. A sane head on your shoulders, experience under your belt, and a first aid kit and training to go with it should something go wrong might get you further.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to chezzy52)

Post #: 14

RE: Safewords - 3/4/2008 3:04:09 PM

MsSonnetMarwood

Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chezzy52

I happen to agree with MsC 1000%.The number one priority should be the safety of the sub,afterall they are putting an enormous amount of trust in the Domina..it only seems logical.

Having a safeword doesn't ensure safety; not using safewords isn't inherently dangerous. It depends on the folks involved and the situation.

_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to chezzy52)

Post #: 15

RE: Safewords - 3/4/2008 4:13:00 PM

LadyJeelys

Posts: 99
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline

I require a safeword or safe "action". I'm just too well acquainted with Ms. Murphy and her law to do without them.

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Post #: 16

RE: Safewords - 3/4/2008 5:14:32 PM

DelilahDeb

Posts: 429
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline

When working with a sub I know, we rarely establish a formal safeword, *because* we do not do role-play scenes. We both know, and will use, the traffic signal "default" system at need (green, yellow, red), and have not ever needed to use it. I do not generally use gags (there are better things to put in a sub's mouth), so it isn't an issue.

Now, when working with a sub that I do not know, I make sure to have a solid discussion with him that establishes the limits of the scene as well as a safeword or the default safeword. And in a recent instance, a service sub gave me considerable pleasure by stretching his normally silent submission to express both his pleasure and his pain during the scene, and did actually use the signal system when a fuller power flogger stroke was more than his ill-fleshed frame could handle.

Delilah Deb

(in reply to LadyJeelys)

Post #: 17

RE: Safewords - 3/4/2008 8:23:46 PM

ShaktiSama

Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
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Safeword is for psychological safety, for the most part. Once again, I have to agree with Pandora--I have had people be unable to safeword when they probably should have, simply because they were too euphoric to realize they were taking too many marks. It is not a real failsafe against physical harm--some masochists can't self-monitor during things that are "doing it" for them. I need to be in full control and make rational decisions about when they are in danger, no matter how "topspacey" I'm feeling.

Nowadays I tend to be careful to keep a first session in a socially safe regions of the body (i.e., nothing that shows wearing jeans and a t-shirt), to discuss what is wanted first, and to keep a careful look-out for where people are at. I still would much prefer that people use the safeword than damage the relationship, so what I really hope is that people know that the safeword means that I care about them.

< Message edited by ShaktiSama -- 3/4/2008 8:25:03 PM >

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Post #: 18

RE: Safewords - 3/5/2008 12:45:24 AM

MaamJay

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Joined: 9/2/2005
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I agree with Ms C in that I use a safeword, generally the traffic light system, but I am just as open to a sub saying "i'm feeling faint in this position" or "my fingers have gone numb/cold/tingly" or whatever! That's invaluable information that I want and need to hear. I explain in advance that I am not looking to accidentally create "sideline pain" so if that develops, tell Me! I also tell subs (especially boys who seem to think they can be stupidly macho sometimes) that I intend to play till I hear a call of orange, but that I'd rather not hear a sudden call of red unless there has been an unfortunate sudden accident. So they know if they keep their mouths shut that the intensity is going to continue to build ... which tends to encourage them to call orange when they need to! This is very much My approach with subs new to Me, and doubly so if being a sub is new to them so they have no idea of their tolerances. These are often exaggerated in their minds LOL!

However, I would never assume that a safeword is a failsafe system. Being a sub also, I am well aware that when one floats off into subspace, it's hard to utter a sound let alone remember a safeword. So as a Domme, once I see signs of a subby going into that space, I no longer rely on (or even expect to hear) a safeword and I stop totally on My own judgement and recognisance. And I'd always rather err on the side of caution and leave them wanting (and believing they could have taken) a little more, especially in the early days. Later, there might be opportunity to push through a barrier if they are willing.

I'm not a fan of gags, but if I was to use one (or to verbally gag someone which is fun!) ... they would have an agreed and obvious signal, or a kiddies writing slate (the sort where you pull a lever to erase!) in order to communicate.

And yes, to Me, the fact that I offer and will respect a safeword, is a sign both of My trustworthiness and My care.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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Post #: 19

RE: Safewords - 3/5/2008 4:58:43 AM

Kirren

Posts: 580
Joined: 9/5/2007
Status: offline

I dont use a safeword per say with kitten, but that is also because I am constantly talking to her, and asking her questions...always asking is she okay...if I know Ive been particularly harsh, I will stop, stroke her bottom a bit and then ask if she needs a break. She has to be gagged because she is so vocal.

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Post #: 20

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