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Do as I say, not as I do! - 3/6/2008 7:27:29 PM

KindLadyGrey

Posts: 358
Joined: 11/6/2007
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Does anyone else ever find themselves having this dilemma with their subs? Are there rules you expect them to follow that you yourself do not follow?

I started thinking about this because I am always late these days. Either my children make it difficult to get out of the house or my husband doesn't get home when he says he's going to or I am just too much of a flake to get it together with so many distractions in my life.

I hate hate hate hate when a boy is late all the time. I even make my position on the matter very clear up front (see profile). If you can't get your shit together and be considerate, I'll be happy to give you the proper encouragement to do so, and it might hurt a tad.

But now I'm the one late all the time. Does this mean I don't have the right to insist on punctuality from others?

I can think of several other examples that might apply. Perhaps a well spoken Lady forbids her sub from cussing, then she has a bad week and drops an F-bomb herself. Perhaps a Lady carefully controls her sub's diet but does not eat well herself. Perhaps she punishes her sub for driving recklessly but is 2 points from losing her license herself.

Etc etc etc.

What's the best way to handle situations where you break one of your own rules? Does it matter at all? Is "Do as I say not as I do" a perfectly valid philosophy for a Dominant in a D/s relationship?

Post #: 1

RE: Do as I say, not as I do! - 3/6/2008 7:39:50 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KindLadyGrey
Is "Do as I say not as I do" a perfectly valid philosophy for a Dominant in a D/s relationship?

I can't see it as healthy in any relationship. Would you want to give such an example to a child, for example? Kinda the ultimate D/s relationship there.

So you're in the wind right now, and never know when or where you'll land. Say less. Only commit to what you know for sure you can do. If that means you can commit to absolutely nothing... well, then you know what you have to work on.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to KindLadyGrey)

Post #: 2

RE: Do as I say, not as I do! - 3/6/2008 7:40:05 PM

hopelesslyInvo

Posts: 522
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: the future
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controlled diet? i have found a new limit!

no one's perfect, but hypocrisy is a bit distasteful. that of course doesn't reflect my views of everything a person or dominant says, but regarding the right and wrong, good or bad sort of things~

(in reply to KindLadyGrey)

Post #: 3

RE: Do as I say, not as I do! - 3/6/2008 7:42:24 PM

darchChylde

Posts: 5279
Joined: 9/28/2006
From: Warm Springs, GA but i live in San Francisco.
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Way i look at it... LIFE HAPPENS!!! A submissive should understand this. So long as you're not being actively hypocritical, then the submissive can just DEAL. If you're feeling guilty over those things, be more patient with your submissive; if they have a serious problem with them, you're the dominant and sometimes things aren't fair. A good relationship should have its' expectations balanced with understanding. You're not required to be understanding, but a submissive should be or look elsewhere.

< Message edited by darchChylde -- 3/6/2008 7:54:12 PM >

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(in reply to KindLadyGrey)

Post #: 4

RE: Do as I say, not as I do! - 3/6/2008 7:42:30 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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I find that I am developing some terrible habits that I fight against all the time! I have become a terrible procrastinator, and it makes me think twice about what I would ask of someone else.

All we can do is strive to improve, and be a better example. Why are you becoming late all the time? Poor time management, or a hidden desire to not leave the house?

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Post #: 5

RE: Do as I say, not as I do! - 3/6/2008 7:49:07 PM

RedMagic1

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It is not productive to think about this like hypocrisy, or "hate hate hate hate hate hate hate." Your life's in the spin cycle. Any routine will be hard or impossible to develop. Treat the situation pragmatically. What can you actually do? NOT: what could you do in the past; what "should" you be able to do. Given your material situation, what can you do? Commit to that. Then do it.

It's a way to maintain self-respect.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 6

RE: Do as I say, not as I do! - 3/6/2008 7:50:36 PM

ShaktiSama

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Joined: 8/13/2007
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I think that being late all the time, when you do not intend to be, is a sign that you are overscheduled. As for whether it is equal or the same for a sub to be late all the time--I suppose that depends on whether he has a spouse and a new baby at home. I would assume if he/she did, you would probably cut a little more slack.

As for rules followed equally by both partners--some are, and some are not. The lack of absolute equality between partners is part of what makes a relationship D/S, rather than just top/bottom. Or so I've always thought.

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 7

RE: Do as I say, not as I do! - 3/6/2008 7:55:01 PM

darchChylde

Posts: 5279
Joined: 9/28/2006
From: Warm Springs, GA but i live in San Francisco.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
Would you want to give such an example to a child, for example? Kinda the ultimate D/s relationship there.

While there are similarities to a parent/child relationship, there's a major difference. A submissive should be an adult and have the maturity and reasoning skills to see beyond the event to what is behind it.

Alot of times a dominant will put strictures on a submissive because a submissive actually has a problem. So if a submissive has a problem with drinking too much, should that make it an absolute necessity that the dominant quits drinking herself?

Also a dominant is entitled to demand things on a whim, where parents shouldn't. If a dominant decides to put a contraption on her sub so they can't masturbate, do you really think that she should not pleasure herself if she desires? THAT'S BAD MATH.

Submissives aren't children, even those involved in age play.

_____________________________

I'm the man your mother warned you about...
if only to keep me to herself.

I'm a male dominant switch whose experienced as a poly sub to a dominant woman
.
Where the fuck do I post?

Proud Owner and Protector of chyldeschylde.

(in reply to ShaktiSama)

Post #: 8

RE: Do as I say, not as I do! - 3/6/2008 8:01:02 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde
So if a submissive has a problem with drinking too much, should that make it an absolute necessity that the dominant quits drinking herself?

Vanilla couples do that all the time. One spouse develops a heart condition. No more fried chicken for either of them.

Chastity control is mixing apples and oranges. The OP was expressing a dissatisfaction with her own inability to engage in a practice that she requests of others. I was speaking to the importance of her being able to trust herself.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to darchChylde)

Post #: 9

RE: Do as I say, not as I do! - 3/6/2008 9:45:37 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Here's the funny thing:

I'm sitting here, with My husband beside Me, and we have the same issue. I'm very much of the same mind as you. If I say I'm going to be at a certain place at a certain time, it ticks Me off to no end if someone else makes Me late. I literally tell people it's his fault that we are not on time. I am of a very firm mind that if I say I'm going to be there at a certain time, it's breaking My word if I'm not there at that particular time.

In My husband's defense, he isn't the only one who makes us late. I'm a culprit, too. Sometimes, it's just easier to blame him. <wink>

_____________________________

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(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 10

RE: Do as I say, not as I do! - 3/6/2008 9:50:43 PM

KindLadyGrey

Posts: 358
Joined: 11/6/2007
Status: offline

I really appreciate the specific address of my current situation, but what about the issue generally speaking? I really wanted to see what kind of discussion it might generate.

A few replies about the me specific stuff:

quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde

Way i look at it... LIFE HAPPENS!!! A submissive should understand this. So long as you're not being actively hypocritical, then the submissive can just DEAL. If you're feeling guilty over those things, be more patient with your submissive; if they have a serious problem with them, you're the dominant and sometimes things aren't fair. A good relationship should have its' expectations balanced with understanding. You're not required to be understanding, but a submissive should be or look elsewhere.

Oh the boy is incredibly nice and understanding and hasn't once given me grief about it. He, actually, is very punctual and always has been. I don't want anyone to think that he's the one laying a guilt trip.

quote:

Original: LadyHibiscus
Why are you becoming late all the time? Poor time management, or a hidden desire to not leave the house?

Well, it's usually because I'm working on adjusting to having the new baby. It took me about a year to get a "leaving the house" routine down after the birth of my first, and now I have a second and have to start all over. . .Also, my soon-to-be-ex-husband is not always punctual himself, so him being late results in me being late. This actually happens pretty frequently, but I usually just blame the kids because I am trying to keep the crappy divorce stuff as far away from the boy as possible. I have good reasons for often being late, but the general question is still worth discussing.

And yes, ShaktiSama, if I had a boy with a new baby I would cut him way more slack :)

(in reply to darchChylde)

Post #: 11

RE: Do as I say, not as I do! - 3/7/2008 1:57:51 AM

AtlantaMistress

Posts: 276
Joined: 6/14/2007
Status: offline

I feel very much the same way - especially about punctuality. I do not like a hypocrite, and certainly do not live my life as one. Unfortunately, shit happens. I do expect a submissive to be more understanding, however - it does diminsh the role as a Dominate to be human and make mistakes. If I am late though, I do appologize. I believe a submission is a gift, and both roles should be given and shown RESPECT. If I am a stickler about time - and will punish a boy for being late or wasting mine, I have no problem letting him know that I had not intended to be late, and I am sorry. I have felt in the past that the ability to still be strong and confident, yet humble and willing to show that I can admit when I am wrong has earned me even greater respect.

_____________________________

Mistress Sandy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'd rather be hated for something I am than loved for something I am not.

(in reply to KindLadyGrey)

Post #: 12

RE: Do as I say, not as I do! - 3/7/2008 4:35:47 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

Seems to me that there's a built in double standard in the lifestyle. I do as I feel is right...they do as I tell them. As long as no damage is done, it's a match.

Master Fire

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(in reply to KindLadyGrey)

Post #: 13

RE: Do as I say, not as I do! - 3/7/2008 6:00:44 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

I think part of a an ongoing DS relationship is recognizing that the rules are not the same for the dominant as for the submissive unless you've negotiated that they are.

So if the rule of not being late is for both of you, then you too need to live by it. If it is for your sub, you just need to enforce it for him in a consistent and reasonable fashion.

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(in reply to KindLadyGrey)

Post #: 14

RE: Do as I say, not as I do! - 3/7/2008 7:24:00 AM

AtlantaMistress

Posts: 276
Joined: 6/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtlantaMistress

I feel very much the same way - especially about punctuality. I do not like a hypocrite, and certainly do not live my life as one. Unfortunately, shit happens. I do expect a submissive to be more understanding, however - it does diminsh the role as a Dominate to be human and make mistakes. If I am late though, I do appologize. I believe a submission is a gift, and both roles should be given and shown RESPECT. If I am a stickler about time - and will punish a boy for being late or wasting mine, I have no problem letting him know that I had not intended to be late, and I am sorry. I have felt in the past that the ability to still be strong and confident, yet humble and willing to show that I can admit when I am wrong has earned me even greater respect.

Too late to EDIT - but meant to say does NOT diminish the role

_____________________________

Mistress Sandy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'd rather be hated for something I am than loved for something I am not.

(in reply to AtlantaMistress)

Post #: 15

RE: Do as I say, not as I do! - 3/7/2008 7:36:53 AM

Dnomyar

Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
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Mmm I did'nt read this post soon enough to be first to post so is it to late to post to it now?

(in reply to AtlantaMistress)

Post #: 16

RE: Do as I say, not as I do! - 3/7/2008 8:51:22 AM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KindLadyGrey

Does anyone else ever find themselves having this dilemma with their subs? Are there rules you expect them to follow that you yourself do not follow?

What's the best way to handle situations where you break one of your own rules? Does it matter at all? Is "Do as I say not as I do" a perfectly valid philosophy for a Dominant in a D/s relationship?

Howdy,

I hold my slave to a healthy number of expectations that I have no interest in incorporating to myself. In fact, there are rules she positively thrives under, that I have no interest in. I reason that if we had the same expectations, she wouldn't be the one locked in the cage from time to time.

We've discussed that having different rules and expectations helps to reinforce her status as my slave. She adores being held to high standards. I don't feel the need to apologize for, say, being late when she knows she'll be soundly punished if she's late. She's here for my enjoyment, not vice versa. In fact, you and your slave might even derive some enjoyment from having you set a rule, that you intentionally break, just to make the point that you can to him.

I say this with a strong caveat: I don't intentionally do things that are against rules for myself. I don't intentionally make her late, knowing she might risk her job, for example. I do my best to treat her in a decent and humane way, not because she deserves it as a slave, but because it would make me feel badly for her to be harmed. This doesn't derive from her power or expectations of me, but rather expectations of myself.

Ultimately, the enjoyment you receive from your slave's service is something you have to determine for yourself. It isn't really up to the slave (or anyone else) to decide how you should or shouldn't treat your slave.

Regards,

Stephan

_____________________________

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"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to KindLadyGrey)

Post #: 17

RE: Do as I say, not as I do! - 3/7/2008 2:30:09 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelesslyInvo

controlled diet? i have found a new limit!

You must eat this double fudge brownie with ice cream. Still a hard limit?

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Slave to laundry

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(in reply to hopelesslyInvo)

Post #: 18

RE: Do as I say, not as I do! - 3/7/2008 2:41:39 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KindLadyGrey
Does anyone else ever find themselves having this dilemma with their subs? Are there rules you expect them to follow that you yourself do not follow?

It's not a dilemma, it's how it works. Ds = Double standard

I get to enforce the authority, they don't.

quote:

But now I'm the one late all the time. Does this mean I don't have the right to insist on punctuality from others?

Not from others, from those you have authority over.

And you might use him to help you be more punctual.

quote:

What's the best way to handle situations where you break one of your own rules? Does it matter at all? Is "Do as I say not as I do" a perfectly valid philosophy for a Dominant in a D/s relationship?

You have authority over yourself. If it matters to you, then do something about it. But just because you make a rule for someone else doesn't mean you need to follow it. If you want to follow a set of rules made by a dom, then you'd be a sub.

Now, it's good to recognize these things when they come up and ask yourself if you are following the standards you find important or not. But for double standards, well that's kinda the point.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1435807/mpage_1/key_double%252Cstandard/tm.htm#1435915
Do you practice what you preach?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_220370/mpage_3/key_double%252Cstandard/tm.htm#220942
Double standard for doms and subs?

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 3/7/2008 3:11:34 PM >

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(in reply to KindLadyGrey)

Post #: 19

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