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KindLadyGrey -> RE: Female Tops and Sex (3/11/2008 12:52:55 PM)
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A lot of good things have been said here, so I'm just going to quote them and add my .02. (rubberpet, make yourself useful and adjust that for inflation[:D])
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Original: darchChylde
Actually, i've found the exact opposite to be true; male submissives are generally not allowed to even admit to wanting sex. Enjoying sex seems to be the first sign of a "do me bottom" if you're a male submissive.
I actually agree with darch here, and I've also been guilty or perpetuating this. Nothing is more annoying than being poked and pawed at by a man who claims to be submissive. The man who does this to me is going to get ignored from that point on, regardless of his lifestyle orientation. I HATE feeling like I am being pressured for sex and I HATE feeling like most men think it's their right as my partner. (I'm getting a divorce, so I've got a little baggage there. . .)
Verbal declarations of desire can go either way. "Are you ever going to fuck me?" will get a boy slapped and then ignored. "I would like to please you sexually too" will probably get a smile and a pat on the head, but still no sex until I am ready for it. Regardless, a hard cock on occasion communicates his desire just fine. We ladies aren't blind. . .we notice.
It's not so much about expecting boys not to ENJOY sex, as it is expecting them not to expect or pressure us for sex. I expect my boys to be perfect gentlemen until I decide I want them to be wanton sluts FOR ME. If I ask a boy if he wants me, his answer better be something along the lines of: "Yes [Grey], I want you oh god please I want you!" On the other hand, if I send a boy to retrieve my laundry from the dryer, he better not return and start pawing me waiting for his "reward." That shit generally only happens once [sm=paddle.gif]
We women are very good at telling whether a man is here with us in the moment or whether he is just waiting patiently until he can have the orgasm that he believes is his due. I think it behooves all submissive men to simply assume they will not be allowed orgasm or intercourse and learn to deal with that. Even if a Lady does want to use a boy for sexual purposes, or leverage his orgasms for control, it should never be considered inevitable. Hell, I'd give the same advice to vanilla men, but I'd be shouting into the wind. . .
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Original: MsIncontrol
Also, I think many/most of the submissives I have had the pleasure of being with...are much more submissive/agreeable/service oriented when their dick is hard. So, keeping him in that state and denying release is beneficial to service at times.
I can't believe more Ladies didn't mention this. Yes, yes, and YES, MsIncontrol. My boys are so much more mouthy and cocky after I've allowed them an orgasm, and so much more service oriented before. One of mine ends up hard practically the entire time he's around me; I actually asked him if he popped a viagra every time he saw me and he swore he didn't. How's that for a compliment, eh?
Also, if it goes on long enough, there will be begging, and I adore begging.
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Original: AtlantaMistress
I believe woman think more with what is between their ears than what is between their legs...Often, it is said that women are more emotional about sex, their hearts and gentials are more connected.
Yeah, everyone hates generalizations, but I'm going to jump on board with this one. Even the women I know who enjoy their promiscuity tend to ascribe more meaning to the act of sex than men do. It's never about just getting our jollies for women, there's always more to it than that. Hell, half of us can't even orgasm from vaginal intercourse, so if it was all about that we'd be at home making love to our vibrators.
I don't want to shortchange men here, especially male submissives. Most submissive men I've met have a more romantic view of sex than other men. They tend to prefer sex with someone who has earned their trust, their submission, and often, their love. See, rubberpet knows what I'm talking about:
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Original: rubberpet
Sex, for me, is a further connection with Mistress. I must love my dominant before I will ever serve her, therefore sex is an expression of my love for her.
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Original: SunNMoon
I really do fit into the withhold sexual contact and sex at the beginning of the relationship with my partner stereotype. Then again to me this is the same thing I would do if I was with someone who was vanilla or dominant. It has more to do with my emotional connection in regards to sex then it does to power play; along with certain requirements that I need to have met before entering into a sexual relationship with someone.
I am exactly the same way, but I do not believe this is necessarily the case for most dominant ladies.
In my case, I feel so strongly about the need for a committed emotional relationship that I include it in my list of hard limits when I have the initial negotiation chat with new potential partners. I will not have sex in the absence of a committed and loving relationship. My definition of "committed" is somewhat flexible, being poly and all, but there should be no doubt that if I have sex with you it means I LOVE YOU. I will often ask potential partners to veto sex if I attempt to engage and they are not interested in a serious relationship.
This ties in to what LadyHibiscus has to say to ShaktiSama. . .
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ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
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ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama
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ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
I'm glad this works for you. For me, fucking a submissive goes utterly against the chain of command. Letting a submissive give me an orgasm? Unthinkable.
Lol...I think some of us think of it more as "taking" the orgasm.
I'm just sayin'.
Well I take THEIRS! <G>
I know that my view is just plain wacky. Believe me, I have tried to make the whole sex-slave thing work. The last time, the excellence of the sex and the slavelike qualities of the slave were in inverse proportion... With Aidan's help [8|] I am working on rethinking my ways, and expanding my horizons to not just having sex with other dominants.
Working on it. I might try sex with a switch next.....
I'm actually with LadyHibiscus on this one. I will bring my boys to orgasm long long long long before I allow them to do it to me. For me, it's the emotional connection issue again. Having an orgasm is a very emotional experience for me, and I won't allow it to happen unless I am positive the boy in question shares my feelings. I know that's not your issue, LadyHibiscus, I'm just adding my take on it. I do agree about TAKING a boy's orgasms. Few things make me feel more powerful than being the ultimate source of pleasure in a man's existence.
Which gets us down to the actual question: Does having sex with a submissive deplete the power dynamic. The answer is both yes and no. Sex makes me, as a woman, more vulnerable both emotionally and physically, so in that way I do give a boy power over me too, whereas before he had almost none. Despite the change in the power dynamic though, I think the ultimate gain is a strengthened relationship in general, and for the submissive, a greater appreciation of his submission. After all, it's one thing to submit to a woman who is always in control, but to be given the opportunity to take that control and willingly continue to submit is a deeper kind of submission.
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Original:ShaktiSama
Hallelujah, sister. Can I hear an AMEN?
Seriously, I am a big fan of the cock. Just not a big fan of male domlitude, at least of late. Believe me, I've tried vanilla men and dominent men. Love their equipment, can't deal with the attitude.
Male subs are my current attempt at better living through D/S. Here's hoping.
Jesus Christ, ShaktiSama, you read my mind! This is exactly why I decided to give my dominant side more time in the light and relegate my sub-side to an occasional playdate now and again(Tangent: Holy crap I rope bottomed this past weekend and it was frackin awesome!). I really am a pretty natural sub, but I just can't deal with all the things that come with having an actual relationship with a dominant man. It just seems impossible to get them to grasp the concept that I am their equal, even if they give it lip service and claim to respect me and so on. There is always the constant infantilizing and almost neurotic need to assert their superiority. In scene? Ok. In life? I will kill you.
;)
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Original: LadyHibiscus
Ah, the confidence of the man-veal....
Personally, I am fond of beefcake!
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