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RE: Religion and D/s - 3/10/2008 3:39:41 PM   
xoxi


Posts: 1066
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TracyTaken

You could add those who belief in the Torah to your list (Jewish people).

It's really, really bad to challenge people's beliefs, especially really destructive, hatefilled doctrine involving the abuse and murder of children and homosexuals, along with genocide, patricide, matricide and homocide in general.  Then there's the lovely bit about the punishment for denying the "holy spirit" (eternity in hell). People who challenge others like that are really making a hate-monger list to which good people have to defend themselves.  Religion is sacred and should never be criticized or questioned, no matter what, because it's really *rude* to put good people in the position of having to defend their beliefs!


Hi Tracy,

I fully support your right to question religion.  However I stated in my OP that I did NOT create this thread to question what religion is good and what religion is bad. I said ANYONE has the right to disagree but that the thread is NOT saying Christianity is better or worse than any other religion.

I would appreciate it if you would keep the focus of the thread I started on how YOUR religion affects YOUR views of D/s, and if you want to start a thread criticising Christianity/Judaism for not supporting homosexuality then I will be happy to chime in my (unpopular) views on the subject.  I just ask that you respect my thread and stick to the purpose it was created for - if you are belittling others beliefs they might be more hestitant to respond honestly and openly and that stunts discussion of a topic I consider interesting enough to have created a thread for.

Thank you,
Soshi

(in reply to TracyTaken)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Religion and D/s - 3/10/2008 3:43:50 PM   
TracyTaken


Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline
quote:

As I said in my last post. I am not hijacking the thread any longer or participating in your attempt.


I am attempting nothing, and I bowed out too ... you are the one continuing, Darcy, not me.

I guess it's the "last word" thing, eh?

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Religion and D/s - 3/10/2008 3:49:33 PM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		the world changed since the bible and other religious works were written. They are centuries old...lets not forget that. So they contain things that are not of this time.

_____________________________

~Been there, done that, got the t-shirt

(in reply to TracyTaken)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Religion and D/s - 3/10/2008 3:58:01 PM   
xoxi


Posts: 1066
Status: offline 		Yes it is your right. I'm not a moderator so I can't force you to stop.  I was just asking you nicely if it might be possible for you to stick to positives, and discussion of your own personal experiences, rather than negatives and discussion of other people's experiences.

I am both willing and able to defend my religious views.  I just didn't want to turn this into a "vs" or "debate" thread when my intent was to create a "sharing" thread.

I don't know how my OP was misogynistic and anti-homosexual. I didn't even mention homosexuality. I would be happy to continue this discussion in another venue, just so this thread can maintain the original spirit it was created with.  If you are willing to discuss the merits of Christianity with me I will go make a thread in the politics section for us to play in...I'll even make the first post and sum up my own views, if you want.

-Soshi

(in reply to TracyTaken)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Religion and D/s - 3/10/2008 3:59:56 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Bible, oh, that thing, the book that was written by man, translated by man, I hardly think what is written in there is much relevance in our modern society and to think there are chapters missing, whole parts of it removed by various religous leaders, as not fit for the sheeps consumption, like who are they to decide.

The bible, word for word, nah, I won't take it on board, maybe look at it as ancient text  like the Egyptian hieroglyphs, a scholarly article perhaps, but certainly not a rule book for life.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Justme696)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Religion and D/s - 3/10/2008 4:05:25 PM   
xoxi


Posts: 1066
Status: offline 		OK just to clarify:

This thread is NOT called "Christianity and D/s"

This thread is called RELIGION and D/s.

I put my experiences with Christianity since it is the closest representation of the religion I live my life by.  I then asked if other people wished to share THEIR experiences with THEIR religions and THEIR D/s relationships.

If I were a Buddhist I would have put "as a Buddhist I feel..." and kicked it off that way. This thread is NOT an endorsement of Christianity - it was just one religion I gave as an example to start the thread.

If you don't have any religious beliefs, and just came in here to insult other people's religious beliefs, you are acting contrary to the spirit of the thread.  I know I can't just sit here and police the posts because everyone is more caught up with the fact that they have the "right" to be demeaning and belittling toward others' beliefs than whether or not it is productive.  So yes, you have the 'right' to post whatever you want in here. You can post about your new pet poodle if you want...I can only *ask* you to stay on topic and not insult other people who actually bothered to share something personal, like the thread was created for.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Religion and D/s - 3/10/2008 4:07:39 PM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		lol the only thing beeing proved here is...religions cause war :    

_____________________________

~Been there, done that, got the t-shirt

(in reply to xoxi)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Religion and D/s - 3/10/2008 4:09:17 PM   
KaraLady


Posts: 36
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline 		Ignoring all the drama in this thread, I'd just like to say:
I'm an agnostic switch. Obviously this is because I can't make up my mind about anything!

(in reply to Justme696)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Religion and D/s - 3/10/2008 4:09:55 PM   
xoxi


Posts: 1066
Status: offline 		*laughs*

As does fervent lack of religion.  Both devout faith and devout atheism are strong beliefs that penetrate to the deepest level of a person's psyche. Those are the beliefs they are willing to lay down and die for...to save the world from sin, or to save the world from religion, either way.

(in reply to Justme696)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Religion and D/s - 3/10/2008 4:12:28 PM   
TracyTaken


Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

I don't know how my OP was misogynistic and anti-homosexual.   I didn't even mention homosexuality.


Let me help you out then:

quote:

The Bible states clearly that the natural order is for a wife to submit to her husband.  That is something that I personally believe...


Homosexualiy is automatically *not* the "natural order."  Look up Aristotle for more about "the natural order."  Any wife *should* submit to her husband - that includes everyone who identifies as wife, me and my daughter included.  Where do you get off pronouncing belief about what I should be, or what my daughter should be, or how women should be, or how men should be?  How the heck do you think people will react when you state that it is your personal belief that roughly 1/2 of the population should be submissive to the other half?  You could state more clearly that you think ____ is your job in your role of wife.  But then you couldn't quote the Bible ... hmm, problematic.

quote:

I would be happy to continue this discussion in another venue,


I wouldn't.  I did bow out of this thread, so why do you keep bringing up what you insist you don't want to talk about?



(in reply to xoxi)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Religion and D/s - 3/10/2008 4:15:49 PM   
TracyTaken


Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Both devout faith and devout atheism are strong beliefs that penetrate to the deepest level of a person's psyche. Those are the beliefs they are willing to lay down and die for...


As a devout atheist from the school of Richard Dawkins, I can assure you that I would not lie down and die for my beliefs.   Go figure (edited to add - because I think present company will miss it - THINK ABOUT IT!!!).

< Message edited by TracyTaken -- 3/10/2008 4:16:44 PM >

(in reply to xoxi)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Religion and D/s - 3/10/2008 4:24:34 PM   
xoxi


Posts: 1066
Status: offline 		I see your point.  I suppose it would have been better to say something like "the Bible states that a wife should submit to her husband" which would mean that it is only applicable for people who follow the Bible as a spiritual and moral guide. I do apologize for that - I never meant to imply that the rules in the Bible apply to anyone who doesn't accept the Bible as an authority.

It is my personal belief that homosexual thoughts and homosexual acts are two separate categories.  Homosexual thoughts are thoughts like any other...impossible to control as we are imperfect beings with free will and equal ability to do good or do bad. Homosexual acts on the other hand are what the Bible prohibits.  It doesn't say "don't be a homosexual" but rather "no man shall lie with another man" - focusing directly on the action itself.  I would compare a homosexual impulse with an impulse to do anything else...just because you *want* to slap your mother doesn't mean you *will* slap your mother. The Bible also says "honour thy mother and father" and I'm sure there are plenty of innate responses that say "I want to talk back."  Innate responses don't inevitably lead to the act - our free will lets us choose whether or not to commit the act.  And in my personal moral code, homosexual acts are improper and sinful.  YMMV.

I know you did bow out of this thread, and I guess it's my own personal desire to defend that which I hold dear when it is attacked that makes me want to reply.  I know you think my beliefs are 'crap' but they're just different than yours. I hold them for myself, as my own moral code. I don't try to force them on anyone else.  I've never hit anyone over the head with a Bible and said "do this or you will burn" - but at the same time I refuse to endorse anything that I consider immoral.  Call it a spiritual embargo

Now it's my turn to apologise to the thread...I was unable to just let this attack stand. However let it be known that what I posted here is just my own belief and that I'm not saying anyone should subscribe to it.  I just wanted to explain a bit further, and also I wanted to fix that 'natural order' comment.

Soshi

(in reply to TracyTaken)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Religion and D/s - 3/10/2008 4:26:07 PM   
xoxi


Posts: 1066
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TracyTaken

quote:

Both devout faith and devout atheism are strong beliefs that penetrate to the deepest level of a person's psyche. Those are the beliefs they are willing to lay down and die for...


As a devout atheist from the school of Richard Dawkins, I can assure you that I would not lie down and die for my beliefs.   Go figure (edited to add - because I think present company will miss it - THINK ABOUT IT!!!).


Fair enough. I wouldn't die for my religious beliefs either. But the Crusaders did, just as willingly as atheist Communists fought to eradicate religion from Russia and China. I guess that's the point I was making - that *some* will, not *all*.

(in reply to TracyTaken)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Religion and D/s - 3/10/2008 4:28:02 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TracyTaken

Homosexualiy is automatically *not* the "natural order."  Look up Aristotle for more about "the natural order."  Any wife *should* submit to her husband - that includes everyone who identifies as wife, me and my daughter included.  Where do you get off pronouncing belief about what I should be, or what my daughter should be, or how women should be, or how men should be?  How the heck do you think people will react when you state that it is your personal belief that roughly 1/2 of the population should be submissive to the other half?  You could state more clearly that you think ____ is your job in your role of wife.  But then you couldn't quote the Bible ... hmm, problematic.



Tracy, Tracy, Tracy. You're arguing the wrong point. Xoxi wrote
quote:

The Bible states clearly that the natural order is for a wife to submit to her husband. ...
which is false.  The truth is the bible quite clearly states that a wife will submit to her husband as punishment for eating from the tree of good and evil. Hence, the wife to submit is 'not' the natural order but the consequence of an action. Two different things, yes?

::winks::

Celeste


_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to TracyTaken)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Religion and D/s - 3/10/2008 4:30:39 PM   
SixFootMaster


Posts: 829
Joined: 9/27/2007
Status: offline 		All right, stop, collaborate and listen!

This thread is meant to ask "How does YOUR religion affect or reflect in YOUR day to day life and your lifestyle" - this thread is entirely NOT about Christianity, it was started out of curiosity to see how other religions are reflected in the relationships of their practitioners.

Now that said, and for the record:

A religion is any system of beliefs and practices. Atheism is a religion, Agnosticism is not.

I'm Christian. I do however take the Bible quite literally when it says "God is infinite" - neither male nor female but possessing all characteristics and traits of both. The assignment of Father is a human one, just as the assignment of Goddess is. In my belief, Jesus did not become flesh just to tell everyone to be nice to each other, but explicitly to die, and in dying to rewrite the rules and open the way.  Life is a burning searing forge of suffering and joy, what we do matters little, how we live our lives matters little. The end result will always be the same.

Six.





_____________________________

How-so oft fresh injurious deed
Doth turn Janus' petulant gaze
'pon the rocks and storm rift sea
And littered wood of broken days
disregard for toil shown
no ground broken, no seed sewn.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Religion and D/s - 3/10/2008 4:32:09 PM   
xoxi


Posts: 1066
Status: offline 		Actually Celeste, my primary inspiration for this thread was Ephesians 5:22-24:

22 Wives, obey your own husbands. In doing this, you obey the Lord. 23 For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of the church. It is His body (the church) that He saves. 24 As the church is to obey Christ, wives are to obey their own husbands in everything.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Religion and D/s - 3/10/2008 4:34:02 PM   
KaraLady


Posts: 36
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline 		Atheism is a religion,

It most certainly is not. Atheism is a LACK of belief, not belief. There is no core tenet of atheism. There is no book of atheism. The only thing that unifies atheists with other atheists is a lack of belief in a god.

(in reply to xoxi)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Religion and D/s - 3/10/2008 4:36:08 PM   
TracyTaken


Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
The truth is the bible quite clearly states that a wife will submit to her husband as punishment for eating from the tree of good and evil. Hence, the wife to submit is 'not' the natural order but the consequence of an action. Two different things, yes?


LOL.  Yes.  The "natural order" came later. 

Where is that tree.  I have a terrific craving for an apple.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Religion and D/s - 3/10/2008 4:36:41 PM   
xoxi


Posts: 1066
Status: offline 		Kara,

Just to clarify atheism isn't the LACK of belief in God, but rather the explicit belief that there is NO God.

Agnosticism is both the lack of belief in God and the lack of belief that there is no God.

Soshi

(in reply to KaraLady)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Religion and D/s - 3/10/2008 4:37:44 PM   
TracyTaken


Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Now it's my turn to apologise to the thread...I was unable to just let this attack stand. However let it be known that what I posted here is just my own belief and that I'm not saying anyone should subscribe to it


Just anyone who choses to "follow the Bible as a spiritual and moral guide."  You really aren't gaining ground here, ya know?

(in reply to xoxi)
Profile   Post #: 100
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