RE: Dean Says Florida, Michigan Must Solve Primary Issue

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RE: Dean Says Florida, Michigan Must Solve Primary Issue - 3/12/2008 7:09:46 AM

SinergyNstrumpet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

IF this is such a private internal affair why are the public courts being used?

We are laughing at your party domken. Its hillarious. Hillary's staff is comparing Obama to Ken Star, and saying Mc Caine is more qualified.

Keep up that forcefull response, <paraphrase>, "Your not allowed to say anything!!! It's not fair" . That pretty much is the boiler plate Democratic response to everything, and why you keep getting smashed in elections. Along with impossible coalitions like Pro and Anti Isreal.

My response is just to say this.. McCain has more experience flip flopping than any other politician in modern history..

He flip flopped on the religious right

He flip flopped on torture

He flip flopped on his opinion of Bush

He flip flops on Iraq regularly

What disturbs me most about the man is that after the Bush machine and the religious right went after his family when he ran against Bush, his response was to embrace Bush. I have to tell you, my opinion is just this, if a man will embrace those who attack his family for political gain, just can't trust that man. He will not stand up for his family, why would he stand up for the rest of us?

julia
PS, I may vote Obama, but I will not vote for any old asshole that a political party presents,.... I will not vote for Clinton. I am not a partisan hack. I actually liked McCain at one point, that was until he cried about what the Bush Machine did to his family in South Carolina... and then he literally embraced him! Now he is accepting support from the Evagelicals, the same ones that went out on a mission calling everyone and informing them that McCain had a little black bastard for a UM.... oh these people are just pillars of strength, morality, and character

< Message edited by SinergyNstrumpet -- 3/12/2008 7:26:14 AM >

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RE: Dean Says Florida, Michigan Must Solve Primary Issue - 3/12/2008 7:23:31 AM

SinergyNstrumpet

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quote:

This really puzzles me. The Democratic party and its state affiliates are private entities. As private entities are they not allowed to establish and enforce whatever rules they see fit? Is it not long established in the US that a group's internal affairs are no one elses business unless laws are being broken? Is it not abundantly clear that celticlord started this thread in an attempt to ridcule Democrats in what is a fairly standard tactic of Republicans of all stripes?

You really can come up with a better retort than "it isn't your business". It is in the news, people are speculating about it, and it is everyone's business because this is the process that picks the president.

quote:

As an aside I've long been active in progressive politics and am quite liberal politically so I deal with questions of party loyalty and the party moving to the right on a fairly regular basis. Why not vote for the Green's? In a race the Green candidate could win sure vote that way. Vote for Nader? Never. If by this point it is not clear to you that Nader has become a willing stalking horse for the GOP I'd question where you've been the last 8 years.

I really believe in democracy. Too bad I do not live in one. I really wish I lived in a country where candidates felt they had to really run on issues, wouldn't narrow the debate, and that they had to listen to me and people like me to get my vote. Where are the candidates that want to leave Iraq immediately? They are frozen out of the democrats. Where are the candidates that will support socialized medicine, frozen out by the democrats. Where are the candidates that do more than lip service about protecting trade and jobs? Frozen out by BOTH parties. They are both owned by the corporate pay masters. They do not have to listen to you DK, they already own you. You will never have a voice within the party because they consider you a loyal voter.

You even attack people who want representation by voting for someone like Nader, because you think my vote belongs to your party. My vote belongs to me.

The older I get the more touched I am about the fact that we can all be partisan hacks... loyal voters, in touch with the issues, out of touch with the issues. We can vote third party, we can demonstrate in the street. We can do all these things as Americans.

quote:

How do we as progressives/liberals reclaim the Democratic party?

By showing them they have to earn our vote.

You do realize a majority of the people do not want to be in Iraq, if we lived in a country where we were represented, then they would have to take our troops home. They don't have to because they think we have no where else to go.

If Obama is not presenting himself as a clear choice against McCain, well I will not vote for him.

and I am a single issue sort of person... there is no other issue for me besides what is going on in Iraq.. until we get that addressed we can't address anything else. We just do not have the economic wherewithall to do so...

julia

(in reply to DomKen)

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RE: Dean Says Florida, Michigan Must Solve Primary Issue - 3/12/2008 10:17:34 AM

luckydog1

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"What disturbs me most about the man is that after the Bush machine and the religious right went after his family when he ran against Bush, his response was to embrace Bush. I have to tell you, my opinion is just this, if a man will embrace those who attack his family for political gain, just can't trust that man. He will not stand up for his family, why would he stand up for the rest of us? "

Sounds like you are describing Obama and Clinton here. If Obama hugs Hillary (after her trashing his familly and calling him unqualified) are you going to reject him?

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RE: Dean Says Florida, Michigan Must Solve Primary Issue - 3/12/2008 12:33:50 PM

Stephann

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'd be more sanguine if people who aren't democrats would butt out of party business.

This is Presidential politics. It's AMERICAN business.

Nope. This is democratic party business. We make the rules. We cast the votes. You're welcome to poke your nose in it as soon as I'm welcome to start poking around in how the various state GOP's change their primary rules every 4 years in an attempt to favor their prefered candidate. Of course I could start posting the ballot access rules the GOP has that prevent candidates they don't approve of from ever even getting on the ballot. Why did Colbert only try and get on the democratic ballot in SC? I already know the answer but its really none of my business so I have stayed out of it. Just as this matter is none of your business.

The assumption that only registered Democrats have a vested interest, or a right to express an opinion in how their primary is operated is as absurd as the suggestion that the comedien Stephen Colbert had genuine political aspirations.

Fortunately, it won't be the Party that presides over the country. There was no 'law' regarding how the primary was run, though; it's protocol set up by the party bosses. How a party works, is (in fact) in the hands of the members of this party (this statement shouldn't be confused with stating that the business is only the concern of people in the party! I can say anything I like, but unless I'm willing to register as a Democrat, and work my way up the political food chain, all I have to offer is whatever sway I might pull with the random reader/listener.)

Seems to me that the people hurt most in this are the voters in Michigan and Florida. It's not a question of who's names were on the ballots; the voters were told, ahead of time, their votes wouldn't count. Thus, I don't see any reason a new vote, where they are told their vote will count shoudn't be in order. I'm sure the DNC could scrounge up a few million bucks to enable their party members the chance to weigh in; it's not like Hillary or Obama won't/don't have the opportunity to campaign there again (their time having had been spent elsewhere during that time frame.) To suggest it's 'cost prohibitive' suggests that there's a numerical value to maintaining Democratic party membership; if I was an independent or conservative democrat in either state, I'd think twice about voting for either candidate in the upcoming election.

My suggestion has nothing to do with demanding the democratic party behave as I think it should, as I'm a registered Republican. It has everything to do with saying that everyone, everywhere, has the right to let their vote be cast and counted, regardless of party affiliation. It doesn't make sense that the party, given the amount of time between now and November, can't come up with a suitable plan to resolve this matter, that enables everyone who is eligble to cast a ballot to do so.

Stephan

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RE: Dean Says Florida, Michigan Must Solve Primary Issue - 3/12/2008 4:15:31 PM

SinergyNstrumpet

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quote:

Sounds like you are describing Obama and Clinton here. If Obama hugs Hillary (after her trashing his familly and calling him unqualified) are you going to reject him?

How exactly did she trash his family? I was unaware that calling him "unqualified" was out of bounds... his qualifications are very relevant. I may not support Obama regardless, but if Clinton went around calling Obama's kids bastards or something like that and he made nice with her... um, no, I wouldn't respect that.

julia

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RE: Dean Says Florida, Michigan Must Solve Primary Issue - 3/12/2008 10:25:42 PM

luckydog1

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Talking about how his familly are Muslim, and he attended a mosque sometimes as a child...stuff like that.

BTW, was there ever any sort of evidence that Bush had anything to do with the bastard campaign in SC? Real evidence, not just people saying, "It had to be him."?

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RE: Dean Says Florida, Michigan Must Solve Primary Issue - 3/13/2008 2:17:41 AM

subboi3382

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Florida not counting votes again...hmmmm. They should count them, why are people being shut out because of some stupid decision by the party?

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RE: Dean Says Florida, Michigan Must Solve Primary Issue - 3/13/2008 8:42:26 AM

SinergyNstrumpet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Talking about how his familly are Muslim, and he attended a mosque sometimes as a child...stuff like that.

BTW, was there ever any sort of evidence that Bush had anything to do with the bastard campaign in SC? Real evidence, not just people saying, "It had to be him."?

Please cite evidence that Clinton was involved with the "Muslim" thing... I saw her interviewed and she denied it and Obama has not ever accused her of it...

On the other hand, McCain accused Bush of being behind the South Carolina thing. I suppose it does not matter if there is evidence or not, seeing my point is that McCain made nice with someone he believed trashed his family...

julia

< Message edited by SinergyNstrumpet -- 3/13/2008 8:43:07 AM >

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RE: Dean Says Florida, Michigan Must Solve Primary Issue - 3/13/2008 8:44:40 AM

SinergyNstrumpet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subboi3382

Florida not counting votes again...hmmmm. They should count them, why are people being shut out because of some stupid decision by the party?

Actually it was not the party's decision to not have the vote count, it was the state that moved the primary up and risked the votes not counting.

julia

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RE: Dean Says Florida, Michigan Must Solve Primary Issue - 3/14/2008 3:46:11 AM

MmeGigs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Isn't it odd how folks see things differently. I would feel more sanguine about a McCain presidency if the RNC hadn't stepped in to choose the candidate.

And just how did the RNC do that?

Same way they did in the last senate race here - they picked their candidate and talked the others into dropping out before the rank-and-file Republicans in the state had a chance to really get a good look at the field. One of the hopefuls complained about it, but it didn't get much attention. I imagine that they offered Romney some plum or another to drop out - support in his next race or an administration post or something. There was no reason for him to drop out so soon. The race was far from settled.

It's good strategy - their candidate isn't getting all bruised up in the primaries, and the party's contributors aren't getting tapped out before the real race begins. I'm surprised that more rank-and-file Republicans don't holler about the process ending before they have a chance to make their voices heard, though.

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RE: Dean Says Florida, Michigan Must Solve Primary Issue - 3/14/2008 10:34:11 AM

luckydog1

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"On the other hand, McCain accused Bush of being behind the South Carolina thing. I suppose it does not matter if there is evidence or not, seeing my point is that McCain made nice with someone he believed trashed his family... "

That is not true, please give a cite of Mc cain saying that....

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RE: Dean Says Florida, Michigan Must Solve Primary Issue - 3/14/2008 10:35:40 AM

luckydog1

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"Actually it was not the party's decision to not have the vote count, it was the state that moved the primary up and risked the votes not counting. "

The risk was that the party might make the decision to not count the votes....It was certainly the parties decision.

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RE: Dean Says Florida, Michigan Must Solve Primary Issue - 3/14/2008 3:51:00 PM

Level

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quote:

WASHINGTON - Michigan Democrats agreed Friday to push a do-over primary in early June to give them a say in the close presidential race between Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080314/ap_on_el_pr/primary_scramble

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