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RE: Mind Fucks - Unhealty or simply Sadistic play?? - 9/25/2005 9:38:44 PM   
EvilGeoff


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Joined: 8/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKnottynNice

Dom/mes, subs, What do Y/you think about mind fucks?
Unhealthy, or acceptable "play"?



Mindfucks are absolutely acceptable, great for kicking the "fear factor" up a notch....

If you'l excuse the analogy here, it's rather like slowly cranking your sub to the top of the roller coaster letting them hang there at the top for a few exquisite moments.... Then unleashing them for a heckuva thrill ride.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
I don't believe in mindfucks because they're fake. If I whispered something like that into someone's ear, it would be true.


Mindfucks are fake? I guess it depends on how you look at it. They are a 100 foot fall without the nasty splat at the end. They are cold steel being slid along the skin and warm thick liquid dripping "pat.....pat....pat..." on the floor. They are smell of smoke and the crackle of the fire, the sizzle of metal searing skin.... and no scars tomorrow. Mindfucks are how you do the unthinkable, the unbearable, the unspeakable. And don't harm your partner and don't go to jail.

Works for me!
- Geoff

(in reply to SirKnottynNice)
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RE: Mind Fucks - Unhealty or simply Sadistic play?? - 9/25/2005 10:56:30 PM   
ElektraUkM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I don't believe in mindfucks because they're fake. If I whispered something like that into someone's ear, it would be true.


This is the way I look at it, too.

When I used to read about the idea of 'mindfucks' I thought... oh NO! NO! NO! I've been manipulated mentally in a non-bdsm, regular relationship (i.e. NON-consensual) and the whole idea of someone doing that kind of thing for a thrill just turned me cold.

Then I found out that, as Lordandmaster says here, it's not 'real'... it's a trick, and you're meant to be agreeing to it. So, then I thought... where is the fear? When you know it's not real..? I'm not meaning to knock anyone's fun, but it would do nothing for me. Hmm... maybe just pee me off.

~ Elektra


(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Mind Fucks - Unhealty or simply Sadistic play?? - 9/25/2005 11:17:48 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElektraUkM
Then I found out that, as Lordandmaster says here, it's not 'real'... it's a trick, and you're meant to be agreeing to it. So, then I thought... where is the fear? When you know it's not real..? I'm not meaning to knock anyone's fun, but it would do nothing for me. Hmm... maybe just pee me off.

~ Elektra



If I KNEW it wasn't real, absolutely, and that's why not many doms are good at it. You have to sustain the headspace of "He wouldn't do that...would he?" and constantly maintain that REAL sense of doubt..

It doesn't have to be real or fake...it just has to be unsure from the perspective of the sub. As long as you can maintain TRUE doubt...you can inspire TRUE fear.

(in reply to ElektraUkM)
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RE: Mind Fucks - Unhealty or simply Sadistic play?? - 9/26/2005 12:28:27 AM   
Jasmyn


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From: New Zealand
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilGeoff

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKnottynNice

Dom/mes, subs, What do Y/you think about mind fucks?
Unhealthy, or acceptable "play"?



Mindfucks are absolutely acceptable, great for kicking the "fear factor" up a notch....

If you'l excuse the analogy here, it's rather like slowly cranking your sub to the top of the roller coaster letting them hang there at the top for a few exquisite moments.... Then unleashing them for a heckuva thrill ride.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
I don't believe in mindfucks because they're fake. If I whispered something like that into someone's ear, it would be true.


Mindfucks are fake? I guess it depends on how you look at it. They are a 100 foot fall without the nasty splat at the end. They are cold steel being slid along the skin and warm thick liquid dripping "pat.....pat....pat..." on the floor. They are smell of smoke and the crackle of the fire, the sizzle of metal searing skin.... and no scars tomorrow. Mindfucks are how you do the unthinkable, the unbearable, the unspeakable. And don't harm your partner and don't go to jail.

Works for me!
- Geoff



Below is an excerpt from a piece of writing I did about a night out with a newbie sub in which an impromptu mindfark scene happened...

Our bodies were close and I noted the sweat forming on his brow. I allowed him a sip of his drink and he thanked Me, once again asked if there was anything else he could possibly do for Me instead? My no drew more begging and protestation and I once again picked up the glass and threatened to pour wax over his cock; only this time telling him it would happen regardless of whether he asked or not and roughly trapped his cock in My hand pulling him in closer.
I assured him he was a good slut but My patience was wearing thin.
“Please Mistress I beg you. Something else? Anything else?”
“NOW SLUT!”
His body trembling he stared at the candle, then Me, then the floor, then back to the candle before a jerk on his leash reminded him to hurry up. To My surprise he in resignation stammers the words.
“Please Mistress I beg you to pour hot molten wax over My cock.”
His face is pained as I hover the glass over his cock and his body stiffens in readiness.
“Louder.” I say.
“Please, Please PLEASE Mistress pour hot molten wax over My cock.”
“Louder.” I repeat.
“PLEEEEAAASSSSEEE Mistress POUR HOT MOLTEN WAX OVER MY COCK!”, he begs breathlessly.
“No I can’t be bothered” I say, flippantly placing the candle down on the table and reached for My drink.
In tears he fell to his knees kissing and hugging My boots, thanking Me over and over again for being such a kind Mistress and not hurting Her slut. I just about came on the spot!
I leave him be. He was right where I wanted him. Physically and mentally.
I had had similar reactions before from slaves in various scenes, but for some reason this night stands out in My memory. Perhaps it was the public environment, perhaps it was because he so rarely let himself completely submit, perhaps it was a combination of both, but I learnt a very valuable lesson that night. Sometimes there is more power in doing nothing at all.


At the beginning of this little adventure, it was my intention to drip wax on his penis, but as things progressed it became clear to me that he was so not ready to go down that track yet ,despite what his 'wish list' said... very green, just been in the adult club, something he begged me to take him too, was pushing his limitations as it was.... his fear was real, he was beside himself, begging, pleading I not do it...and those tears, man those tears were horny...totally unexpected... and when I saw the fear and did *it* anyway.. the mindfark that is... he was utterly convinced his penis was going to be toast and my indifference to his concerns only fuelled his terror... so I will readily refute anyone who states mindfarks are 'fakes' and somehow not real, and thus pointless...the mindfark is the point...to fark with their heads, suspend their disbelief, alter their reality...and is an art, and like Emerald elluded to, it is difficult for many to effectively master the fear/reality balance and pull it off in a scene.

Mindfark's don't always 'fear-based' and can be as simple an act of trailing the prongs of a dinner fork over a blindfolded sub...and laughing off their requests to know what that 'toy' is... it was funny watching this one particular forked one rummaging through the toy bags later trying to find out what it was...

Or making someone believe they are in a public environment, ie play party, on a collar and leash and they are been watched and appraised, and other doms are commenting on my fine property, and playing into their bi-kick, telling them a growing lists of doms are wanting him to attend to their boys, and he should really consider lubing himself up...and so and so on...and reiterating how he is my property, to do with as I wish...for that moment, in that time, they believe it all to be true... and he later tells you, he feared the power I had over him in that scene, and that if I had asked him to get rodgered by a 100 men, crawl across coals and fall to his death over the edge of a cliff he feared he would have...

I think every scene we do wwiiwd has some element of suspending belief and reality.

Anyway, my two cents ;)





_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


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(in reply to EvilGeoff)
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RE: Mind Fucks - Unhealty or simply Sadistic play?? - 9/26/2005 1:02:15 AM   
NewlyBruised


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The sweet memories that evokes Jasmyn... I agree completely.

Mind fucks can be as real in contributing to a scene as a real fuck can be - it's all about wondering, like Emerald mentioned... "He wouldn't, would He?" Seeing the look of satisfaction on my Master's face when I look at Him in shock as the thought of something He's mentioned stirs my mind makes me see that He just might. I wonder, thinking to myself just how it would feel and how I would feel about it. He can see fear creeping into my eyes, see my mind spinning and He knows He can use that.

And He does - because He knows it's going to make whatever scene it gets incorporated into a helluva a lot hotter. And He knows I trust him with everything about me and that whatever He decides is right would only be done if He felt I was ready to experience it.

(in reply to Jasmyn)
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RE: Mind Fucks - Unhealty or simply Sadistic play?? - 9/26/2005 3:24:14 AM   
Lordandmaster


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But you're not really doing the unthinkable. You're just pretending--and one of you knows that it's all make-believe, while the other has to figure it out. Sorry, that's not for me. Either you do the unthinkable or you don't.

I never say anything I don't mean, and I never mean anything I don't say. So mindfucks are out of the question for me.

Edited to add: That doesn't mean I won't let a sub imagine things that aren't true, at least for the time being. For example, I'll never forget blindfolding one of the first subs I ever had and then tying her to a chair. I took out one of those old-fashioned letter-openers and ran it all over her body, probing her pussy lips with it, and finally running it across her neck. (At that point, she whispered, "Do it!") After it was all over and I had fucked her good in that position, I took off the blindfold and showed her the letter-opener.

Some of you might think that qualifies as a mindfuck, and I guess it all depends on your definitions, but I didn't do anything like whisper "This is a knife; get ready to be cut!" into her ear. I definitely wouldn't approve of that (unless it really WERE a knife).

quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilGeoff

Mindfucks are fake? I guess it depends on how you look at it. They are a 100 foot fall without the nasty splat at the end. They are cold steel being slid along the skin and warm thick liquid dripping "pat.....pat....pat..." on the floor. They are smell of smoke and the crackle of the fire, the sizzle of metal searing skin.... and no scars tomorrow. Mindfucks are how you do the unthinkable, the unbearable, the unspeakable. And don't harm your partner and don't go to jail.



< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 9/26/2005 3:28:46 AM >

(in reply to EvilGeoff)
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RE: Mind Fucks - Unhealty or simply Sadistic play?? - 9/26/2005 3:29:43 AM   
TexasMaam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsPurrmeow
When we play with humiliation, we need to follow the rules of respecting limits, but knowing where there is a desire for growth.

It can be a razors edge, and is not for the inexperienced or insincere. Growth and damage, unfortunately look surprisingly similar at times. The context, the motivations, and the people are what make the difference.

Purr


Thanks Purr, for your eloquent post! I couldn't have said it better. Texas Maam

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)
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RE: Mind Fucks - Unhealty or simply Sadistic play?? - 9/26/2005 4:00:48 AM   
imtempting


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
Either you do the unthinkable or you don't.




I agree with that.


As for the tooth brush example I think most people would not do that as its un-healthy and personnally id refuse to put it in my mouth.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Mind Fucks - Unhealty or simply Sadistic play?? - 9/26/2005 4:25:42 AM   
TexasMaam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElektraUkM

...Then I found out that, as Lordandmaster says here, it's not 'real'... it's a trick, and you're meant to be agreeing to it. So, then I thought... where is the fear? When you know it's not real..? I'm not meaning to knock anyone's fun, but it would do nothing for me. Hmm... maybe just pee me off.

~ Elektra




I was an apprentice to a Domme and was eager to learn about the powers of suggestion when scening a sub. The lesson of the day concerned just such suggestion.

Just before being blindfolded I was given a glimpse of a sleeping cat in a box. I guessed it was sleeping. It was curled up, motionless, in a box. Only a fraction of a second of a glimpse, but it was enough.

I was bound, and gagged, and laid across a table. "Hand me that cat..." were the only words spoken. A sub in the room presumably 'handed the Domme the cat', (I was blindfolded), and a series of eerie and bizarre sounds ensued. A soft tearing sound, thumping, the clank of ice on ice....and occasionally ice was dripped along My body.

A metallic smell, not unlike the scent of freshly wrapped meat, permeated the room.

A warm fur was rubbed across each arm, leg, breast, and the metallic smell in the room made my breath stop cold. I kept telling myself 'this isn't real, they're faking me out', but in the darkness and the silence fear gripped me as a sharp object was drawn across my skin. Suddenly, I heard "put it in the freezer and let's leave her".

A heavy, rubbery 'thunk' like the sound of a large ice chest closing followed. Then a door thudded closed. Silence. Darkness. That eerie metallic scent. Worst of all, I never heard that cat.

Now, I knew this woman to be an animal activist and knew she would never harm her own beloved pet. I also knew that harming any cat, or any animal, was a hard limit that she would never breach. I KNEW these things with certainty, but in that room, as the air got increasingly colder, in the darkness, unable to move, unable to see, a primal fear began to gnaw at me. As the hours wore on, I drifted in and out of fitful sleep, waking once to feel a soft blanket covering my shivering feet. Without a sound in the room I was certain that who ever had come had left just as quietly.

Finally, after what seemed an eternity, She returned. Doors opened and closed, metal objects clinked and clanked together on what I knew was a tabletop to my right. Chunks of block ice were rubbed across my skin until it burned. I heard chipping sounds, muted hammering sounds, and an ice cold chunk of something was rubbed across my...well, you get the picture.

By the time I orgasmed repeatedly on this cold, wet piece of who knew WHAT it was, I was screaming for release but of course the gag stopped any sound.

I was suddenly covered in warm blankets, untied, un gagged, and was assisted by several sets of hands to sit up while I sobbed and shivered uncontrollably. A soothing voice kept quietly insisting that I open my eyes to see.

On the table were a series of peices of fake fur, some dry, some wet, two frozen. There was a cooler of block ice, in pieces. There was an open plastic tub of defrosted chicken liver off in the corner.

The white persian cat was sitting quietly, staring at the liver, waiting to be fed.

The nefarious object that had gripped me with such fear, that I was convinced was some horrible piece of something gruesome and unspeakable, that had given me such horriffic pleasure was a semi frozen partially green banana, still in it's darkening skin, wrapped in a single layer of cellophane.

To quote Jasmyn: "for that moment, in that time, they believe it all to be true... and he later tells you, he feared the power I had over him in that scene, and that if I had asked him to get rodgered by a 100 men, crawl across coals and fall to his death over the edge of a cliff he feared he would have..."

A truly successful mindgame can lead your imagination to places you never thought it would go. It is 'that moment, in that time' that you believe it MIGHT be true, when primal fear begins to grow and feed on itself and becomes so gripping it leaves you completely paralyzed. That is 'where the fear' is.

I still remember to this day what that felt like. I know, and understand, as a result of that lesson, just how overwhelming terror can be. It's a dangerous razors edge indeed. Having a Dom, or Domme, who knows how to pull you safely back from the brink without permanent psychological or emotional impairment is paramount.

I'm sure that I'm a better Domme for having learned what it is to be in fear's unrelenting grasp.

Texas Maam


(in reply to ElektraUkM)
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RE: Mind Fucks - Unhealty or simply Sadistic play?? - 9/26/2005 6:33:10 AM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
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quote:

I'm sadistic & I like humiliation play, but c'mon!
There is line drawn somplace.

Dom/mes, subs, What do Y/you think about mind fucks?
Unhealthy, or acceptable "play"?


If you trust your partner, anything is possible.

Mind fucks are totally yum in my opinion.

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to SirKnottynNice)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Mind Fucks - Unhealty or simply Sadistic play?? - 9/26/2005 6:49:26 AM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
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quote:

Then I found out that, as Lordandmaster says here, it's not 'real'... it's a trick, and you're meant to be agreeing to it. So, then I thought... where is the fear? When you know it's not real..? I'm not meaning to knock anyone's fun, but it would do nothing for me. Hmm... maybe just pee me off.


You sound like all the experience you have is theoretical. Have you actually ever engaged in a mindfuck scene?

When Sir takes me into a room that's decorated like a bunker, puts on an accent and begins to interrogate me as if I've tried to cross into an Eastern European Country with drugs, do I know that I'm in western NY and that this isn't real? Sure. Does it mean that when he orders me in that hideous accent to strip and a bag that looks like coke falls out of my dress (but is really Aunt Jemima pancake mix) and I am treated like a criminal by this man who now only has shades of Sir because the accent and the clothing and the way he treats me begin to seep into my brain and mess with it, having the 'Is it live or is it Memorex' effect on me fake? The fact that I'm breathing heavy, have no idea what's next, and when I mouth off get a slap across the face fake?

Part of the contract that you enter into when you allow yourself to bottom to someone is (or sure as hell ought to be) trust. Sir and I negotiate limits, but certainly not step by step what he has planned. He asks if I trust him, I tell him I do, and we are off. And he can take me to incredibly interesting places if I just let him.

Sometimes I read these boards and wonder if I'm missing something; Is there some kind of intellectual contest going on, where a handful of naysayers have to continue to hammer away at whether things like "mind fucks' are real? Is there some prize I've missed somewhere?

Mind fuck play isn't for everyone. I think you have to have a certain amount of suspension of disbelieve, a certain element of wonder to allow yourself to let go and immerse into something that is, for all intense and purposes, fake as you say.

I knew I wasn't in a foreign country, I knew I didn't have any coke on me, and I knew that somewhere in the bastard that was treating me roughly was Sir. But he set the stage, he controlled the scene and I about shit myself when that baggie of 'drugs' fell out of my dress. I knew that his threat of a "Gulag' was empty, but my heart raced, the perspiration collected on my brow and at one point I cried and begged for mercy because he'd created a world in that room that I accepted and was real enough for that hour for me.

I don't think the issue is whether mindfuck is fake or not. I think the real issue is to what degree a Top is skilled at weaving a believable story and to what degree a bottom is willing to immerse themselves in it and have their mind blown.

If you think about it, everything we do is fake. We aren't 'really' beating people; if we were really sadists and masochists, there would not be any safe words. So this 'Fake' argument could be applied to everything we do.

But that would take all the fun out of it, wouldn't it?

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to ElektraUkM)
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RE: Mind Fucks - Unhealty or simply Sadistic play?? - 9/26/2005 6:52:10 AM   
ProtagonistLily


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Ooo...that's a good one. I'm glad Sir doesn't read these boards LOL.

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to TexasMaam)
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RE: Mind Fucks - Unhealty or simply Sadistic play?? - 9/26/2005 7:08:45 AM   
night101owl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKnottynNice
Dom/mes, subs, What do Y/you think about mind fucks?
Unhealthy, or acceptable "play"?


Mind fucks are just like whips and knives-- they can be used for "acceptable play", and they can be unhealthy, it all depends on how they're used, and the balance struck between fun and harm.

And by the way, chances are, some people will play a whole lot harder and way past the boundaries of the majority of people here. The fact that someone plays harder than you does not make what they do "unhealthy". The toothbrush game you describe sounds incredibly tame, to me.

(in reply to SirKnottynNice)
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RE: Mind Fucks - Unhealty or simply Sadistic play?? - 9/26/2005 7:18:03 AM   
thetammyjo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKnottynNice

I read once at another BD/SM forum...

quote:

Mind fucks, I love mind fucks.
Like telling a subbie to scrub the toilet with her toothbrush, and while she's doing it whisper in her ear "you're going to use it when your done."


I'm sadistic & I like humiliation play, but c'mon!
There is line drawn somplace.

Dom/mes, subs, What do Y/you think about mind fucks?
Unhealthy, or acceptable "play"?

Be well


I think it entirely depends on what you've negotiated.

Some people like to have nasty ideas planted in their minds. Planting an idea is not the same as making someone do that nasty thing.

People fantasize about all sorts of unsafe and illegal stuff. I think that using words and using substitutions to do a mindfuck instead can be a great way to "live it" without all the risks.

Again though I think its entirely a matter of negotiation.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to SirKnottynNice)
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RE: Mind Fucks - Unhealty or simply Sadistic play?? - 9/26/2005 7:28:49 AM   
night101owl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
That doesn't mean I won't let a sub imagine things that aren't true, at least for the time being. For example, I'll never forget blindfolding one of the first subs I ever had and then tying her to a chair. I took out one of those old-fashioned letter-openers and ran it all over her body....<snip>....I took off the blindfold and showed her the letter-opener.

Some of you might think that qualifies as a mindfuck, and I guess it all depends on your definitions, but I didn't do anything like whisper "This is a knife; get ready to be cut!" into her ear. I definitely wouldn't approve of that (unless it really WERE a knife).


Yeah, I think that definitely qualifies as a mind fuck-- letting a bottom believe something that isn't true, in order to increase the intensity of the experience. It's actually a scene that I've heard several times, as a standard description of what a mindfuck is. Personally, as someone who's into knifeplay, it would be a bit of a letdown for me to see the letter opener.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Mind Fucks - Unhealty or simply Sadistic play?? - 9/26/2005 7:31:47 AM   
prettyfellowme


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There are good mindfucks, and those can be fabulous, and bad ones. Let me give you an example of the best one I've seen to date. It happened to me recently, and I've been thinking about it ever since. The domme who did it is as sharp as they come, and we had discussed this subject before we met for the first time last week.

I was instructed to wear panties, nylons, waistcincher, and a bra to ur meeting. Mistress likes black and so do I, so they were matching black. We had lunch, and then went shopping at a fetish store. The afternoon was wonderful. I was a little let down, no upset, no, I was pissed that she didn't make any attempt to check to see if I followed her instructions. She knew that I hadn't done this too often. When we spoke online that evening, I just had to bring it up to her. I told her that I wished she had checked to be sure I followed her instructions. Her reply was quite simple.
"If you showed up, I was fairly sure you would comply. Besides I could see every one of the bra lines under your shirt." Now there's a world class mind fuck.

A good mind fuck in my opinion doesn't have to be scene related. It can be just as much fun for the domme to just play with the subs head. from now on, I am going to worry every time she says wear a bra in public that every woman will know I'm dressed. What the guys think is immeterial.

< Message edited by prettyfellowme -- 9/26/2005 8:44:04 AM >

(in reply to SirKnottynNice)
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RE: Mind Fucks - Unhealty or simply Sadistic play?? - 9/26/2005 7:36:38 AM   
ElektraUkM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2
If I KNEW it wasn't real, absolutely, and that's why not many doms are good at it. You have to sustain the headspace of "He wouldn't do that...would he?" and constantly maintain that REAL sense of doubt..

It doesn't have to be real or fake...it just has to be unsure from the perspective of the sub. As long as you can maintain TRUE doubt...you can inspire TRUE fear.


I like this response, because it gets right to the heart of how 'real' it would have to be for me to believe it was real (and hence be frightened at all). As I said in my original post, I've been taken way beyond anywhere I'd want to go in a non-consensual situation, and Master is someone I totally trust not to do anything actually damaging to me. So why would I be frightened ~ I TRUST HIM.

Added to that, I'm not the sort of person who can easily suspend disbelief. I never have been. I have next to no imagination (luckily Master has all the imagination I'll ever need), and no particular desire for thrills that aren't based on the here and now.

Just the way I am, personally. Not trying to be awkward

edited to add: that I've been nervous a LOT of times with Master... but always, always, knew that it was never going to go badly. How can you play with someone and not know that? Wouldn't freaking out take place if you didn't know, somewhere inside that it was all 'OK' (I won't say 'fake' because I don't want to make it sound disparaging)?

~ Elektra


< Message edited by ElektraUkM -- 9/26/2005 7:42:05 AM >

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RE: Mind Fucks - Unhealty or simply Sadistic play?? - 9/26/2005 7:45:38 AM   
ElektraUkM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: night101owl

Personally, as someone who's into knifeplay, it would be a bit of a letdown for me to see the letter opener.



For me too (worse than that... peed off, as I said). And also... how are you EVER going to believe that you're not being taken for a ride the next time? It would just ruin that trust for me. I think I must just be someone who needs it to be real for me to get any sort of 'pleasure' (fear) out of the whole experience.

~ Elektra

(in reply to night101owl)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Mind Fucks - Unhealty or simply Sadistic play?? - 9/26/2005 7:52:36 AM   
ElektraUkM


Posts: 309
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily


Sometimes I read these boards and wonder if I'm missing something; Is there some kind of intellectual contest going on, where a handful of naysayers have to continue to hammer away at whether things like "mind fucks' are real? Is there some prize I've missed somewhere?


Of course they're real in the sense that they're real experiences. And obviously there is an ability, described here compulsively, for that dynamic to exist and be incredible (or maybe I mean credible? lol) between particular partners.

And evidently it's also not for everyone, for a variety of reasons. In my case, it's because I am a pretty literal, practical, reality-based person. Dull though it sounds to type that out.

~ Elektra

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Mind Fucks - Unhealty or simply Sadistic play?? - 9/26/2005 11:13:28 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
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If you have to suspend disbelief and allow yourself to experience something you know is fake, then you're admitting that it's not real. Of course you're free to enjoy mind-fucks, but you can't really complain when someone points out that they're not real, because that person is not saying anything other than what you're saying. All you're saying is that you enjoy them EVEN THOUGH you know they're not real.

About the letter-opener (in response to night101owl). I really didn't plan it at the time as a mind-fuck, and actually never thought about it in those terms until reading and considering this thread (when I asked myself, have I ever done anything that could be considered a mind-fuck?). I wouldn't do it to someone who was genuinely into knife-play. Yes, in that case, it would be completely phoney. I think the point for me was to see (and show her) how far she would be willing to go if she were blindfolded, tied to a chair, and not in control of what would happen next. (She was pretty new at the time.) But I have to say, I've changed a lot since then. I'm not so sure I would do the same thing today.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily

Sometimes I read these boards and wonder if I'm missing something; Is there some kind of intellectual contest going on, where a handful of naysayers have to continue to hammer away at whether things like "mind fucks' are real? Is there some prize I've missed somewhere?

Mind fuck play isn't for everyone. I think you have to have a certain amount of suspension of disbelieve, a certain element of wonder to allow yourself to let go and immerse into something that is, for all intense and purposes, fake as you say.



< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 9/26/2005 2:19:45 PM >

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
Profile   Post #: 40
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