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RE: U.S. gay bishop not welcome at meeting by the Angli... - 3/11/2008 8:16:10 PM   
Gwynvyd


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Some things are worth fighting for.. like when you are tired and dont feel like dragging your ass to the back of the bus.


Gwyn

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RE: U.S. gay bishop not welcome at meeting by the Angli... - 3/12/2008 2:25:04 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd

Some things are worth fighting for.. like when you are tired and dont feel like dragging your ass to the back of the bus.


Gwyn


whats interesting about that reference, is that its predominantly the African arm of the Anglican Communion which is forcing the hand of the archbishop with this topic.

I wonder how many LGBT people, were the social progress made by our "community" (hate that world) rather than by the black "community" from MLK onwards, would nowadays insist that blacks use separate facilities, sit at the back of the bus and keep out of our areas?

E

edited to add - I appreciate the situation for black people in the west is not the same as for black people in Africa - but I would say this is only superficial. The west treats Africa as it does because regardless of MLK, the black man is still second class on the world stage, even if he has made progress in the west. How ridiculous then, that people who need rights (the Africans) should then choose to negate the rights of others equally disadvantaged, albeit for different reasons?

< Message edited by LadyEllen -- 3/12/2008 2:28:28 AM >


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RE: U.S. gay bishop not welcome at meeting by the Angli... - 3/12/2008 6:30:12 AM   
OrionTheWolf


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Joined: 10/11/2006
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I agree but then again it depends on what your objective is.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd

Some things are worth fighting for.. like when you are tired and dont feel like dragging your ass to the back of the bus.


Gwyn


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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: U.S. gay bishop not welcome at meeting by the Angli... - 3/12/2008 4:21:55 PM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I agree but then again it depends on what your objective is.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd

Some things are worth fighting for.. like when you are tired and dont feel like dragging your ass to the back of the bus.


Gwyn



Personaly my objective ( as well as many of my sisters and brethern) is sick of being shuffled off to the back of the bus law wise, socialy wise, killed in other countries... not allowed to see our loved ones in hospitals ( even when they are dying) having our wills contested, paying more taxes, unable to marry and all of the legal protections that entails, unable to adopt or foster children, teach in some schools, lose our jobs and homes simply for being gay... to be able to worship as we chose.. well you get the idea.

Yeah.. I would say that is our big ol Gay Agenda. To be Equal. *smiles* To have the same protections under the law.. to be able to care for and protect our families just as everyone else does.

If we took a just 5 year period and said all the natural blonde people in the US had the exact same rights as gays do now I bet you some shit would change pretty damn quick.

Personaly I do not subscribe to a church that would have such limited ideas on God.. and translate the scriptures as they have. I have a wonderfuly accepting church that loves my family and has accepted us as very active members. ( Hell, I am in charge of the Teen Program in our area. )

But I do not believe in backing down when people are being oppressive if you think you are standing up for your rights, and that of others. I think the Bishop is going to be fighting a losing battle. But it is at best symbolic ~that one man of God is willing to stand up. Maybe it is enough to make others think.. and give some hope. I do not know. But it is his choice. God bless him on his journey.

Gwyn

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: U.S. gay bishop not welcome at meeting by the Angli... - 3/12/2008 4:37:53 PM   
seeksfemslave


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Gwynvyd: what you possibly dont know is that the pressure in the Anglican church to exclude homosexuals comes from the Bishops based in Africa who follow the word of the scripture.

You may not like that.. but it is still a fact.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: U.S. gay bishop not welcome at meeting by the Angli... - 3/12/2008 5:15:35 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd

Some things are worth fighting for.. like when you are tired and dont feel like dragging your ass to the back of the bus.


Gwyn


whats interesting about that reference, is that its predominantly the African arm of the Anglican Communion which is forcing the hand of the archbishop with this topic.

I wonder how many LGBT people, were the social progress made by our "community" (hate that world) rather than by the black "community" from MLK onwards, would nowadays insist that blacks use separate facilities, sit at the back of the bus and keep out of our areas?

E

edited to add - I appreciate the situation for black people in the west is not the same as for black people in Africa - but I would say this is only superficial. The west treats Africa as it does because regardless of MLK, the black man is still second class on the world stage, even if he has made progress in the west. How ridiculous then, that people who need rights (the Africans) should then choose to negate the rights of others equally disadvantaged, albeit for different reasons?


LE, I imagine that it's hard to treat people or countries as "equals" when you've been giving them "foreign aid" for the last 50 years and there's been few if any "advancements" on their own.
"Foreign aid" is supposed to be a "hand up" not a "hand out."
And ten years should be more than sufficient not 50 years.
Africa should be develop[ing their own Aids drugs and healthcare programs and stop accepting charity from the West.
Until they do those things they're not really "equals" are they?

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: U.S. gay bishop not welcome at meeting by the Angli... - 3/12/2008 5:17:39 PM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
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I know the scriptures very well.. and I know how many decide to interpret them. Just as in the 1700-1800's the White churches cherry picked scriptures to disinclude and to prove black slavery as bibicaly sound they are now really stressing the same thing now with gays. Is it any more right now it is against gays instead of blacks? No. It is simply something new. What is the new thing they will cherry pick out of the verses to hold back a group of people from being equal? Hell they did the same thing to keep women from voting. ( read about Womens Sufferage some time) they used the bible to point out women should not hold lands, or vote because of the bible. Should be go back to that, and start treating the blacks as they did back in the 1700's? All because some people twisted the bible then as it is being twisted now?

I think not. Again History teaches us many things.. It teaches us how to proceed and to evolve if we alow ourselves to come up from where we have been. The fact that the previously oppressed group is now twisting the same book that was used against them and helping to oppress others is a bit of irony. Does it make it any more right? No.

Does it make it any more right since they have slapped God's name on it.. and waved the bible over thier heads... No. Just as it wasnt when our forefathers said they were ment to be nothing more then slaves because the bible, and God himself decreed it. They used Ephesians 6:5 time and again.. it was not until Uncle Tom's Cabin by Harriet Beecher Stowe came out that the theolgians began to seriously think about slavery maybe not being such a good thing. Lincon called her "The little woman who wrote the book that made this great war."

Personaly I like these: John 8:36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed
Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is on Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor.  He has sent Me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight to the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor

and on the whole imigrant issue.. which was also at play in Jesus's time: Mark 10:43 Whoever desires to become great among you shall be your servant.

Using the bible to subdue people whom you hate, and have intolerance for is never acceptable. It has been done for so long I guess we dont know when to say enough is enough.

Colossians 3:11  where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all

Gwyn

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: U.S. gay bishop not welcome at meeting by the Angli... - 3/12/2008 5:25:10 PM   
seeksfemslave


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Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline
You criticise cherry picking and then much to my surprise (lol) what do you do? you pick some cherries of your own. he he he he he

(in reply to Gwynvyd)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: U.S. gay bishop not welcome at meeting by the Angli... - 3/12/2008 5:40:58 PM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd

Some things are worth fighting for.. like when you are tired and dont feel like dragging your ass to the back of the bus.


Gwyn


whats interesting about that reference, is that its predominantly the African arm of the Anglican Communion which is forcing the hand of the archbishop with this topic.

I wonder how many LGBT people, were the social progress made by our "community" (hate that world) rather than by the black "community" from MLK onwards, would nowadays insist that blacks use separate facilities, sit at the back of the bus and keep out of our areas?

E

edited to add - I appreciate the situation for black people in the west is not the same as for black people in Africa - but I would say this is only superficial. The west treats Africa as it does because regardless of MLK, the black man is still second class on the world stage, even if he has made progress in the west. How ridiculous then, that people who need rights (the Africans) should then choose to negate the rights of others equally disadvantaged, albeit for different reasons?


LE, I imagine that it's hard to treat people or countries as "equals" when you've been giving them "foreign aid" for the last 50 years and there's been few if any "advancements" on their own.
"Foreign aid" is supposed to be a "hand up" not a "hand out."
And ten years should be more than sufficient not 50 years.
Africa should be develop[ing their own Aids drugs and healthcare programs and stop accepting charity from the West.
Until they do those things they're not really "equals" are they?


I guess to some it does come down to the bottom line of if I do this for you , you should do that for me.. or at least be able to do it for yourself by X date or to hell with you.

It would be nice to live in the world where drought, military coup d'etat, roving bands of murderous militia, and people who are so ruled by a religion in highly populated areas that teach these people nothing about sex and how to prevent AIDS, or unwanted pregnanties. ( It is against thier religion, and therefore the Govt will not allow it to be taught publicly) Sex is bad and evil, unless you are married. Even once married they do not tell married couples anything about it. it is such a shameful topic even those who do know ( like thier parents if still alive) will not discuss it. Such is the dogma of the church)
They have little to no educational system for the poor. No education, no commerce, no industry, no scientists. The govt, military and militia groups are so corrupt and blood thirsty that there simply is no hope for these people. Most aid that is given gets sold on the black market because it is stolen by the roving bands of thugs with guns who rape and murder.

Again History goes to show any time you you replace logic and learning of a country or set of countries with repressive religious views which enact changes that are contradictary to the health of those nations ( The Spanish Inquisition killing off Cats~ which then made an explosion of rats carring the black plauge) these things happen. Now it is disallowing people education and safe sex measures that would protect them from spreading AIDS because of the church in Africa.

We are not helping the African nations hardly at all when you concider how bad things are.. and what we have done. Firstly we cant do much. It simply is not safe for us to be there with the roving bands of thugs.

It is an ongoing problem that no one has an answer to.

These Bitter little men in Africa should be the last ones making rules or trying to force thier convention to do anything.

Gwyn

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: U.S. gay bishop not welcome at meeting by the Angli... - 3/12/2008 5:42:54 PM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

You criticise cherry picking and then much to my surprise (lol) what do you do? you pick some cherries of your own. he he he he he


It was proving my point.. any one can pick verse out of the bible and make it mean anything.. they can pick a verse and say it means this.. and I can pick one to counter it.

That was my point exactly.. I was wondering which of the you would be the first to see it.

Thank you for noticing. You get a button.

*smiles*

Gwyn

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 30
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