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reply to my ad - 9/26/2005 7:56:54 AM   
prettyfellowme


Posts: 110
Joined: 9/15/2005
Status: offline 		I recieved a reply to my profile today, and it brings up a serious question for subs. The person who asked if I'd be interested was very polite, and I appreciate that. he wanted to know if I would be willing to submit to a domme couple as their houseboy. I declined. I'm straight, and I don't submit to men. I wrote back saying I wasn't interested, and he wrote right back to me. It was in the form of an FYI.

He said that any man that is owned by a dominant couple will at some point in his training suck cock. He said that almost every domme couple require it, although it isn't spoken about. He added that if the man was gay or bi it would be any fun to force a cock into his mouth. My question is: Which one of us has the wrong perception of the D's lifestyle? Is he wrong in saying that if I am in service to them, I will take a cock weather I like it or not, or am I wrong for thinking I don't have to break a hard limit to please him?

< Message edited by prettyfellowme -- 9/26/2005 8:35:47 AM >
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RE: reply to my ad - 9/26/2005 8:12:16 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: prettyfellowme
He said that any man that is owned by a dominant couple will at some point in his training suck cock. He said that almost every domme couple require it, although it isn't spoken about. He added that if the man was gay or bi it would be any fun to force a cock into his mouth. My question is: Which one of us has the wrong perception of the D's lifestyle?

The only perception I might disagree with is his statement that almost every dominant couple requires it, which is a questionable statement no matter what "it" is.

The point that matters of course is finding what DOES work for you and for them to find what DOES work for them.

(in reply to prettyfellowme)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: reply to my ad - 9/26/2005 8:16:41 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: prettyfellowme

I recieved a reply to my profile today, and it brings up a serious question for subs. The person who asked if I'd be interested was very polite, and I appreciate that. he wanted to know if I would be willing to submit to a domme couple as their houseboy. I declined. I'm straight, and I don't submit to men. I wrote back saying I wasn't interested, and he wrote right back to me. It was in the form of an FYI.

He said that any man that is owned by a dominant couple will at some point in his training suck cock. He said that almost every domme couple require it, although it isn't spoken about. He added that if the man was gay or bi it would be any fun to force a cock into his mouth. My question is: Which one of us has the wrong perception of the D's lifestyle?


Oh, there is a proper response for that. It's on page 192 of the True Submissive Handbook.

Laugh at the jerk

Seriously you'll find all kinds of insecure people who want to peddle The One True Way crap. It isn't new, nor is it limited to The Scene. "He is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature."-- George Bernard Shaw: Caesar, in Caesar and Cleopatra, act 2.

Short answer to "Which one of us has the wrong perception of the D's lifestyle?" is YOU

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to prettyfellowme)
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RE: reply to my ad - 9/26/2005 8:33:41 AM   
prettyfellowme


Posts: 110
Joined: 9/15/2005
Status: offline 		John,
First of all, thanks for the reply. My question, although I now see it was worded poorly was, am I wrong in believing a dom/me should never make a sub do something that is against his nature? I don't think they should. You led me to believe that he was wrong in his assmtion, then say that I'm wrong in believing I shouldn't be made to take a man if it is wrong in my belief.

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: reply to my ad - 9/26/2005 8:39:23 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: prettyfellowme
am I wrong in believing a dom/me should never make a sub do something that is against his nature?

Yes it's wrong. Many males and females will perform sexual acts with others not according to their sexual orientation. It's "against their nature" in terms of sexual orientation, but it's not "against their nature" in terms of submission.

My boyfriend is not at all bisexual, but has no problems topping or bottoming to another male or being in a threesome with another male as long as it doesn't become sexual between him and the other male.

There are very few absolutes in the scene.

It's also NOT wrong for you to say this isn't right for you and that you will not get into a relationship which involves X, Y, or Z. That's the good part about informed consent.

(in reply to prettyfellowme)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: reply to my ad - 9/26/2005 8:42:49 AM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

He said that any man that is owned by a dominant couple will at some point in his training suck cock. He said that almost every domme couple require it, although it isn't spoken about. He added that if the man was gay or bi it would be any fun to force a cock into his mouth. My question is: Which one of us has the wrong perception of the D's lifestyle? Is he wrong in saying that if I am in service to them, I will take a cock weather I like it or not, or am I wrong for thinking I don't have to break a hard limit to please him?


Opinions are like assholes....you know the rest.

I disagree with the above assertation. This kind of broad sweeping generality is inappropriate coming from anyone.

BDSM and D/s relationships are about negotiation. If you are clear about your limits and articulate them, while they may be pushed at some point in a developed relationship, responsible individuals practicing WIIWD tend to respect limits. If you have a hard limit against bi-sexual contact, the person that you ultimately enter a relationship with should know this and respect this limit.

Anyone who makes broad sweeping proclaimations like this should, in my opinion, be avoided.

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to prettyfellowme)
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RE: reply to my ad - 9/26/2005 9:04:11 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: prettyfellowme

John,
First of all, thanks for the reply. My question, although I now see it was worded poorly was, am I wrong in believing a dom/me should never make a sub do something that is against his nature? I don't think they should. You led me to believe that he was wrong in his assmtion, then say that I'm wrong in believing I shouldn't be made to take a man if it is wrong in my belief.


This is quite a different question. The previous was an "all" situation; this is an "ever." Almost anything that can happen, has happened.

It is also complicated by the fact that a lot of people join the scene to do things that "are against their nature."

If it really is a hard limit for you, you need to let your partner know and make it a "do this and I leave" situation.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to prettyfellowme)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: reply to my ad - 9/26/2005 9:18:37 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		From John Warre:
quote:

Oh, there is a proper response for that. It's on page 192 of the True Submissive Handbook.


lol

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: reply to my ad - 9/26/2005 9:22:55 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		I wouldn't suggest breaking a hard limit under any conditions ... but you could always put yourself in with the fifty-one percentile ... get really drunk and use breath mints.

(in reply to prettyfellowme)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: reply to my ad - 9/26/2005 9:48:31 AM   
prettyfellowme


Posts: 110
Joined: 9/15/2005
Status: offline 		Emerald,
I've read many of your posts and enjoyed them. I've even respected some of what you've said. You've changed that. If bisexuality is off limits to you or anyone else, that is definitely something that shouldn't be broached. If you were straight, which I know you're not, you would be out of sight in a heartbeat if your Master set up a situation where (hypothetical situation here) you know a man that was dirty and unkempt. He comes to a party with his also not too clean female, and after you watch them make love, your Master tells to to get down there and suck everything out of her. If you'd do it being straight, you need more therepy than the criminally insane.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: reply to my ad - 9/26/2005 9:50:09 AM   
prettyfellowme


Posts: 110
Joined: 9/15/2005
Status: offline 		John,
I agree, but if the scene is played out, after the fact is a little late, don't you think?

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: reply to my ad - 9/26/2005 10:09:09 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: prettyfellowme

John,
I agree, but if the scene is played out, after the fact is a little late, don't you think?


You clearly wrote that this had only been a cyber communication and now you're claiming the scene was played out already.

I suggest you get your story straight. I don't like to be trolled

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to prettyfellowme)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: reply to my ad - 9/26/2005 10:13:33 AM   
prettyfellowme


Posts: 110
Joined: 9/15/2005
Status: offline 		No John,
What I said is What if? I haven't played the scene. I was only contacted today. What my point was and is: Since bondage is part of the lifestyle too, I'm sure a creative dom/me could make sure you don't repel the cock. After that, leaving doesn't alter the fact that you've been forced. I'm sorry you took it the wrong way. I did not say the scene was played out.

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: reply to my ad - 9/26/2005 10:17:37 AM   
sanita


Posts: 338
Joined: 1/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: prettyfellowme

He said that any man that is owned by a dominant couple will at some point in his training suck cock.



i wonder if there is a Catch22 in this declaration of "Truth."

you declined, because you would not want to submit to men. Therefore, you would not be owned by a Dominant Couple. Nor would any submissive male that did not want to be submissive to a man.

Now, weeding out the people that would not be willing to submit to, or be owned by, a couple... Does this statement hold water?

Well, it is a perception. It is not a very broad-minded one, though. There are service subs and slaves that have no sexual requirements as terms of their service. There are slaves that may be owned by a couple, but their duties are only towards one or the other of the Owners.

Sure, before getting into the arrangement, a slave should know what will be expected, and what "other duties as applied" may come up. And if the Couple states that cock-sucking could come up at any given time, then it is good to know. His statement that it would be expected would be good for informed consent... He just said it wrong. And since he was trying to give you a little FYI lesson...

Well, until this man has met every sub or slave owned or serving a Dominant couple on this earth, His statement is pretty ridiculous.

Therefore, in my opinion, the perception which is wrong, is His.

If you can think of an arrangement, there will be someone in it somewhere, and there will also be just as many people in an arrangement that is the polar opposite.

< Message edited by sanita -- 9/26/2005 3:55:03 PM >

_____________________________

Sometimes, He calls me "subbie." Sometimes, i call me "subbie." And if someone wants to call me a BBW, its flattering. Just don't call me false.

"Please do not show me your ass and expect me to read your mind." -Opencollar

(in reply to prettyfellowme)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: reply to my ad - 9/26/2005 10:26:30 AM   
prettyfellowme


Posts: 110
Joined: 9/15/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks sanita,
There are different ways to read everything I guess, whether it's the spoken or written word. His being upfront with a sub or slave in the beginning certainly would dispell any notion of not doing it if asked. What I find amusing is the fact that everyone has a different take on everything. Nowhere, I repeat nowhere in any posts did i say I experienced anything even remotely resembling being forced to suck a cock, yet John Warren read what was clearly a hypothetical situation and read into it something that wasn't said or implied. Hence, he called me a troll. He has always come across to me as a man that was on top of the sitaution, but now I guess he just goes into the catragory of defenseless morons who want to belittle people. To further emphasize my point. John clearly agrees with me that this thought process is wrong from a lifestyle point of view as far as the sender of the invitation is concerned, but then goes on to say I have the wrong idea of what is proper in the lifestyle. Read his original reply to the question. Such is life I guess. All i can say is, mr. Warren, thank you for your insight, and you're dismissed.

< Message edited by prettyfellowme -- 9/26/2005 10:34:56 AM >

(in reply to sanita)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: reply to my ad - 9/26/2005 11:09:52 AM   
FLButtSlut


Posts: 344
Joined: 3/17/2005
Status: offline 		Ok, so you get an "offer" from a couple and you decline because you do not want to submit to a man. Alrighty, no problem. Receiving and FYI email from the male of the couple telling you what is "likely" going to be expected from a submissive to a couple would be a complete waster of time, since you are not looking for a couple. I am not looking for a lesbian mistress so if one wrote to me telling me what was expected from a sub to a lesbian mistress, should I care? Never going down that road, so it doesn't really matter.

Given that you aren't looking for a couple & declined the couple who made the "offer", are you simply trying to educate yourself about how different types of relationships might work? Because if you weren't, you really didn't have a reason to post, because there is no dilemma.

(in reply to prettyfellowme)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: reply to my ad - 9/26/2005 11:29:46 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: prettyfellowme
If bisexuality is off limits to you or anyone else, that is definitely something that shouldn't be broached.

Isn't that what I said here:
"It's also NOT wrong for you to say this isn't right for you and that you will not get into a relationship which involves X, Y, or Z. That's the good part about informed consent. "

quote:

If you were straight, which I know you're not, you would be out of sight in a heartbeat if your Master set up a situation where (hypothetical situation here) you know a man that was dirty and unkempt. He comes to a party with his also not too clean female, and after you watch them make love, your Master tells to to get down there and suck everything out of her. If you'd do it being straight, you need more therepy than the criminally insane.
OK just because someone is bi doesn't mean they will be ok with fucking any random person either.

Would I have sex with someone because the Owner told me to do so even if I felt absolutely no attraction to them on any level and in fact might even really not want to do so?

Yes. Because authority over my sexual behavior in this regard is something I transferred to the Owner.

Interestingly enough however, he wouldn't have me do that specific act because it's a gross violation of safe sex protocol and that not something ANY of us in our poly relationship would condone.

Just because I'm willing to obey the Owner doesn't mean I need any therapy. I accepted what that authority entails and what expectations are set.


< Message edited by EmeraldSlave2 -- 9/26/2005 12:29:13 PM >

(in reply to prettyfellowme)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: reply to my ad - 9/26/2005 11:56:11 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: prettyfellowme

I recieved a reply to my profile today, and it brings up a serious question for subs. The person who asked if I'd be interested was very polite, and I appreciate that. he wanted to know if I would be willing to submit to a domme couple as their houseboy. I declined. I'm straight, and I don't submit to men. I wrote back saying I wasn't interested, and he wrote right back to me. It was in the form of an FYI.

He said that any man that is owned by a dominant couple will at some point in his training suck cock. He said that almost every domme couple require it, although it isn't spoken about. He added that if the man was gay or bi it would be any fun to force a cock into his mouth. My question is: Which one of us has the wrong perception of the D's lifestyle? Is he wrong in saying that if I am in service to them, I will take a cock weather I like it or not, or am I wrong for thinking I don't have to break a hard limit to please him?


Um, does your profile say you are looking to submit to couples, het couples? If so, then it is likely to be assumed that includes sex.

However if it doesn't say that then the person who wrote to you was just putting his assumptions onto you.

And no, actually folks don't always have sex in Ds or BDSM relationships. That's something you should negotiate not assume. Cause you know what they say about "assuming" right? It makes an "ass" out of "u" and "me"?

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to prettyfellowme)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: reply to my ad - 9/26/2005 11:58:04 AM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sanita


quote:

ORIGINAL: prettyfellowme

He said that any man that is owned by a dominant couple will at some point in his training suck cock.



i wonder if there is a Catch22 in this declaration of "Truth."

you declined, because you would not want to submit to men. Therefore, you would not be owned by a Dominant Couple. Nor would any submissive male that did not want to be submissive to a man.




*chuckles*

I simply -had- to comment on both of these...just to point out an assumption being made here that all dominant couples are M/F... We certainly wouldn't be training a boy to suck cock, and a servant who accepted a collar here -would- be owned by a dominant couple yet would not be exposed, necessarily, to being submissive to a man.

As far as the generality of the situation, each and every D/s encounter is unique, as is each relationship encounter outside of the lifestyle. We have to know what we want, what we don't want, and what we're willing to accept/settle for. Some are willing to settle more than others, and that's ok, as long as they accept that in settling, they've abrogated some of their right to complain later. If a person walks willingly into a situation without making their requirements and limits clear, the blame resides firmly on the individual who made the decision. If someone isn't comfortable yielding to men, one doesn't accept positions that require submitting to men. If a person doubts or fears whether a particular individual will respect hir limits, then xhe shouldn't submit to that individual. Each of us should only claim those individuals whom we feel ready and willing to take responsibility for (as dominants), or should only yield to those whom we believe will be good stewards of the life that we yield up, in whatever measure we choose to yield it. It has nothing to do with gender or role UNLESS those are a boundary for someone.

Each individual's boundaries should be respected. That doesn't mean that I don't push my servants' limits -- what it means is that, as the dominant member, I recognize limits, and know my servants well enough to know whether pushing a boundary on a given limit will be beneficial or detrimental -- and unless it is beneficial to BOTH of us, I practice good stewardship of my servants by not pushing that particular boundary.

For prettyfellowme, if the situation sounds wrong to you, you make the choice ahead of time. If it sounds wrong, walk away. If you accept, knowing that it isn't a healthy situation for you, you are liable to end up being pushed in a direction you don't want to go, and in this situation, which seems to have been laid out very clearly, the onus would be completely in your court because you accepted, even knowing that it wasn't going to be right for you.

An Owner should not have to change his or her practices because a certain other person wishes to submit... if a person doesn't like what I, as a dominant, offer in terms of the type of submission required, the solution is to find a situation that xhe likes better, -not- to yield to me, and then expect me to change to suit what xhe wants to get out of hir submission.

Lady Zephyr


< Message edited by LadiesBladewing -- 9/26/2005 12:00:23 PM >

(in reply to sanita)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: reply to my ad - 9/26/2005 12:59:27 PM   
night101owl


Posts: 83
Joined: 8/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: prettyfellowme
if the scene is played out, after the fact is a little late, don't you think?


Yes, after the fact is always going to be a little late to be communicating your hard limits. You have a responsibility to make this communication before you get into a scene. If something comes up during the scene that you failed to think of, you have a responsibility to say no, then and there (and if you're playing a nonconsent scene, you have a responsibility to safeword).

(in reply to prettyfellowme)
Profile   Post #: 20
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