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Let's Raise Taxes - 3/14/2008 4:26:46 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080314/ap_on_go_co/congress_budget_51

WASHINGTON - The Senate rejected calls from both parties' presidential candidates to take an election-year break from pork-barrel spending as a Democratic-run Congress passed budget plans that would torpedo hundreds of billions of dollars in tax cuts won by President Bush.

I wonder if the Dems plan on reinstating the telephone tax that Bush had dropped (it was to pay for the Spaniish American War)
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RE: Let's Raise Taxes - 3/14/2008 5:13:48 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		bush goofed.  by making tax cuts 'temporary"     from day 1.   if there  is no money in my account, i cant write a check.    it apperas th govt cant either.....

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Let's Raise Taxes - 3/14/2008 5:21:12 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		I don't think Bush made them temporary.   I think it was congress that did that since Bush can't write his own and then sign it.  But I agree that it was a mistake not to make it permanent.

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RE: Let's Raise Taxes - 3/14/2008 5:32:46 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

  But I agree that it was a mistake not to make it permanent.
 

And why is that?


How big was your tax cut?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 3/14/2008 5:33:56 AM >

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Let's Raise Taxes - 3/14/2008 6:03:53 AM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		making a tax cut permanent is not going to stimulate a sagging economy



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RE: Let's Raise Taxes - 3/14/2008 6:39:57 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Well if they eliminated the captail gains and AMT taxes, then middle America may be able to spend that money back into the economy. Instead it goes to the Feds, and is wasted.

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RE: Let's Raise Taxes - 3/14/2008 6:59:18 AM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

But I agree that it was a mistake not to make it permanent.
 

And why is that?
How big was your tax cut?


My Gross income this year was $31,606.

I compared my gross this year with the gross in 1999 tax years.    I compaired the percentage of gross income against the percentage of that gross paid as taxes.   The percentage was less for tax year 2007 than tax year 1999.  I live on a fixed retirement income.   Therefore the tax cut was a good thing or do you think that People that make as much as I do sho0uld pay more taxes because we earned an income (not social security) for the rest of our lives.

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RE: Let's Raise Taxes - 3/14/2008 7:08:59 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Let's be honest, the US's problems do not originate from taxes, it originates from having a welfare state for the rich, overspending on the military and fighting wars it can't afford.

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RE: Let's Raise Taxes - 3/14/2008 7:45:29 AM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Meatcleaver:

I think all three of those benefit the same group. And I am pretty sure that was your point.

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RE: Let's Raise Taxes - 3/14/2008 8:20:03 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

But I agree that it was a mistake not to make it permanent.
 

And why is that?
How big was your tax cut?


My Gross income this year was $31,606.

I compared my gross this year with the gross in 1999 tax years.    I compaired the percentage of gross income against the percentage of that gross paid as taxes.   The percentage was less for tax year 2007 than tax year 1999.  I live on a fixed retirement income.   Therefore the tax cut was a good thing or do you think that People that make as much as I do sho0uld pay more taxes because we earned an income (not social security) for the rest of our lives.


I'm with Meat and Sugar; squabbling about dimes doesn't do anything about the stacks of Benjamins being trimmed from my paycheck, to go into the pockets of individuals and groups who (in turn) cry foul, when the loans they wrote (based on that funneled cash) become worthless.  Cutting taxes, at this point, means increasing the amount of interest we'll ultimately pay.  Ken, just because you (and probably I) won't live to see the public debt repaid, doesn't mean it won't be a massive burden on our children's and grandchildren's shoulders.

Stephan


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RE: Let's Raise Taxes - 3/14/2008 9:01:39 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Lets see     Kenedy cut taxes and the revenue from taxes increased
                Regan cut taxes and the revenue from taxes increased
                Bush Cut taxes and the revenues from taxes increased.

Anybody see a pattern there?

It's not the inflow of money to the government that is the problem. It's the outflow.


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RE: Let's Raise Taxes - 3/14/2008 9:06:36 AM   
Gemini1766


Posts: 991
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline 		This is very true, Archer. Reduced taxes actually cause more taxes to be gathered. It's odd, but true. NY needs to do something about their taxes, they are unreasonably high and it is causing most businesses to leave, yet the state and local governments are too stupid to work it out and reduce taxes and thus bring in more businesses, create mroe jobs and increase overall tax flow.

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RE: Let's Raise Taxes - 3/14/2008 9:12:52 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl

making a tax cut permanent is not going to stimulate a sagging economy




Allowing those tax cuts to expire (i.e., a tax increase) is going to further slow a sagging economy.

Liberal economic theologies notwithstanding, the way to stimulate the economy is to take money out of the hands of the government and put that money in the hands of consumers. That means cutting taxes, or at the very least not increasing them.

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RE: Let's Raise Taxes - 3/14/2008 9:38:57 AM   
Crush


Posts: 1031
Status: offline 		Less money for me means I don't stimulate the economy, because I'm not spending, along with the rest of my fellow wage slaves.

Lower taxes gives me more to spend, so that means lower taxes will stimulate spending...and therefore the economy.

I sure don't see how higher taxes stimulate anything but higher government spending....

(in reply to celticlord2112)
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RE: Let's Raise Taxes - 3/14/2008 9:43:06 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		Yes I read the article where both parties are looking to raise taxes.  It is also to note that the Senate practice of "Earmarking" will continue.   Earmarking is a way Senate member get large amounts of money to people, without a hearing as why the money is to be spent and not included in the regualr budget, Senate members say they have a right to do this.  Of course Senate members who send earmark money get a large campaign contribution in return.  GOP Candiate McCain called for a one year ban on earmarking, both parties rejected it.  Obama and Clinton have used earmarking very widely but since becoming Candiate have opposed earmarking. 
 
A recent study by The Center for Responsive Politics states that 58% of the Senators and 44% of the Congress Members are no Millionaires and that the number will continue to raise.  The riches member of Congress for now is Jane Harman, a Democrate from California...worth $409 Million Dollars.
 
Getting back to the raise in taxes, I am sure that the House and Senate will pass laws to increase our taxes but put the clause.."Members of Congress are exempt from this law".  Another practice of theirs, how do you think they become so rich.

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RE: Let's Raise Taxes - 3/14/2008 9:57:02 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

But I agree that it was a mistake not to make it permanent.
 

And why is that?
How big was your tax cut?


My Gross income this year was $31,606.

I compared my gross this year with the gross in 1999 tax years.    I compaired the percentage of gross income against the percentage of that gross paid as taxes.   The percentage was less for tax year 2007 than tax year 1999.  I live on a fixed retirement income.   Therefore the tax cut was a good thing or do you think that People that make as much as I do sho0uld pay more taxes because we earned an income (not social security) for the rest of our lives.


I'm with Meat and Sugar; squabbling about dimes doesn't do anything about the stacks of Benjamins being trimmed from my paycheck, to go into the pockets of individuals and groups who (in turn) cry foul, when the loans they wrote (based on that funneled cash) become worthless.  Cutting taxes, at this point, means increasing the amount of interest we'll ultimately pay.  Ken, just because you (and probably I) won't live to see the public debt repaid, doesn't mean it won't be a massive burden on our children's and grandchildren's shoulders.

Stephan


 
So are you saying that we should spend more federal money on pork, raise taxes, to reduce the amount of stuff that I can purchase and the services I can have, thus channeling the money back into the funnel that the government special interests have created?   Like Archer said Kennedy, Regan and Bush (yes that is both parties) cut taxes and revenue increased.   What caused the problem was when Congress allocated more taxes then to their special interests funnels.  Congress is the problem, not the taxpayer.   And why is it that you think that raising my taxes will help me?

(in reply to Stephann)
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RE: Let's Raise Taxes - 3/14/2008 10:05:38 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

But I agree that it was a mistake not to make it permanent.
 

And why is that?
How big was your tax cut?


My Gross income this year was $31,606.

I compared my gross this year with the gross in 1999 tax years.    I compaired the percentage of gross income against the percentage of that gross paid as taxes.   The percentage was less for tax year 2007 than tax year 1999.  I live on a fixed retirement income.   Therefore the tax cut was a good thing or do you think that People that make as much as I do sho0uld pay more taxes because we earned an income (not social security) for the rest of our lives.


In other words,you didn`t get a tax cut.

None of the folks posting here got a tax cut.either.

The only people who got a tax cut,were the very wealthy.

Now if there was a middle income tax break,I`d be all for it.

But cutting taxes on the rich and shifting the tax burden on to the middle class has not worked.Trickle down didn`t work and hasn`t worked.20 years of Ragean/Bush/Bush have shown us this.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I could never understand why middle class republicans are so hell bent on cutting taxes for rich people when it means they`ll be picking up the slack.

If you go out to dinner with a group of friends(say 12) and decide that 2 of you won`t pay as much towards the dinner bill(for what ever fuck`n reason you can imagine),that decrease for those two will now be shifted on to the shoulders of the rest of the dinner goers.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

One more question for the "leave no millionaire behind" crowd:

Why should wage earners pay a higher income tax, than those that earn their living from investments(ie.,capital gains)?

I defy anyone on these boards to claim/show that their taxes will go up when this "tax cut for the rich "expires.

Btw, candidate Bush said that the vast majority of his tax cuts would go to the middle class.

A bald faced lie that middle class republicans swallowed whole.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 3/14/2008 10:08:05 AM >

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Let's Raise Taxes - 3/14/2008 10:05:51 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Stephan,

If, as the examples given show, revenues increase when taxes are lowered, then how can that translate to increasing the time it takes to pay the debt? (assuming that there is not a concurrent increase in spending)
So it becomes obvious the inflow is not the problem, but the outflow.





 

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Let's Raise Taxes - 3/14/2008 10:08:26 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

In other words,you didn`t get a tax cut.

None of the folks posting here got a tax cut.either.

The only people who got a tax cut,were the very wealthy.


I'm not wealthy, and Bush lowered my taxes.  I don't know about you, but I definitely got a tax cut from him.


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RE: Let's Raise Taxes - 3/14/2008 10:10:32 AM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Reagan and revenue
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/reagan-and-revenue/

Is it really possible that all the triumphant declarations that the Reagan tax cuts led to a revenue boom — declarations that you see in highly respectable places — are based on nothing but a failure to make the most elementary corrections for inflation and population growth? Yes, it is. I know we’re supposed to pretend that we’re having a serious discussion in this country; but the truth is that we aren’t.

-----

McCain Lies His Head Off; NY Times Asleep at Switch
http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/01/18/mccain-lies-his-head-off-new-york-times-asleep-at-swich.aspx

One of the most common-supply-side talking points is that tax cuts always lead to higher tax revenues. It's not really true (revenues crashed after the 2001 Bush tax cuts) but even if it were, it's misleading: Tax revenues tend to rise over time as a natural result of inflation, rising population, and economic growth. Taken at its face value, the supply-side logic would imply that tax hikes always cause revenue to fall, which is ridiculous on its face, and which explains why supply-siders never mention this silly corrollary to their claim.

-----

Eye on the ball. Get all the facts before spouting nonsense.

(in reply to Archer)
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