RE: Let's Raise Taxes

RE: Let's Raise Taxes (Full Version)

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OrionTheWolf -> RE: Let's Raise Taxes (3/14/2008 7:59:33 PM)
If there were a flat tax system then we wouldn't have to worry about this bullshite. The tax system is used for political means, and distractions such as these.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Let's Raise Taxes (3/14/2008 7:59:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster quote: ORIGINAL: Archer Still waiting for the specfied "rich" breakpoint to be anonced instead of the etheral class warfare cry of those evil rich. Come on lets define it. otherwise claims of "wihich includes everyone here" are meaningless at best. Where you wanna put the break point Top 20% of income? 20%? Get real. Not boasting here, just stating a fact. The last year that my ex and I filed jointly, our AGI was 273K. No yacht, no private plane, no Villa in France, no McMansion, no new Bimmer/Benz/Bentley, no dining out every night, no wine cellar fulk of Grand Cru Burgs, no bespoke tailor suits, none of that shit. In short, we weren't rich. What, you just stacked the bills and used them for heating? Can you even imagine how you'd live off of $3,000 a year? That's what my earnings were, each year, for the past four years. Just sayin. Stephan No, I can't imagine. My health insurance costs almost that much every year. I don't even know where one can live on that unless it's on a Uni campus or in Mom's basement. Maybe a cardboard box under a freeway overpass. Just sayin. [:D]

Stephann -> RE: Let's Raise Taxes (3/14/2008 8:37:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster No, I can't imagine. My health insurance costs almost that much every year. I don't even know where one can live on that unless it's on a Uni campus or in Mom's basement. Maybe a cardboard box under a freeway overpass. Just sayin. [:D] You could argue I was on par with the living situation; I was living in Santiago, Chile. Lets see what 276k could afford... in a year... Yacht Private Plane Villa in France Annual Cost of a Loan on a 1.5 million dollar house (84 thousand per year) Bentley Continental GTC Dining Out 365 nights a year at $200 a night. All of these figures include plenty of space to afford a standard house mortgage, food, gasoline, health insurance, braces for the kids.... Now, what was that about not being rich? Can I be poor like you? Stephan

Muttling -> RE: Let's Raise Taxes (3/14/2008 8:42:59 PM)
I will VOLUNTARILY accept a tax raise on myself and ONLY myself along with any other people who will volunteer for it.... With ONE condition..... Pass a fucking balanced budget ammendment!!!!!!!!!!! Screw this deficit spending crap.

Archer -> RE: Let's Raise Taxes (3/14/2008 9:25:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster quote: ORIGINAL: Archer Funny the documented facts show they lead to LOWER per year deficits (Personally that's good but not good enough for me) As I have said several times it is the spending side of the equation that needs to be handled. Doesn't seem to matter which party of the two is in Congress both spend beyond a ballanced budget. How much beyond makes some difference but not enough to get us out of debt. This is something which is completely bizarre to me. Many people who post in political threads such as this go on about how such and such is a "documented fact" but never seem to be able to find the documentation. Go to the recent thread on Racism. Note how I link to an original source to support my point. Note how I always provide a link to that which factually supports my points (NOT blogs or op-ed pieces; facts). I rarely see anyone do that here. If people did that shit on the B.com "Politics and Such" forum, they'd be laughed off it. Also note that the above makes no mention of partisanship. I take it a general knowledge when it has been a story in AP every year since 2005 that the revenues from taxes have increased and that the deficit has been shrinking. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/13/business/13deficit.html Add to that the table from the OMB found here http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2004/tables.html enough source data found for you? and all it took tocheck was a 30 second google search. Widely reported fact don't need to have sources referenced they are considered general knowledge.

Archer -> RE: Let's Raise Taxes (3/14/2008 9:32:57 PM)
Owner you still have not addressed the facts and figure Celtic psted showing the effects of the tax cuts on page 3. quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Not all "tax cuts" are the same. A tax cut on the very rich,is not a tax cut for the middle class.(which includes everyone here) You need to quit speculating about my taxes. You don't know my tax burden any more than you know anyone else's. However U.S. Federal Individual Income Tax Rates History, 1913-2008 Taxes under Clinton 1999 Taxes under Bush 2008 Single making 30K - tax $8,400 Single making 30K - tax $4,500 Single making 50K - tax $14,000 Single making 50K - tax $12,500 Single making 75K - tax $23,250 Single making 75K - tax $18,750 Married making 60K - tax $16,800 Married making 60K- tax $9,000 Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750 Married making 125K - tax $38,750 Married making 125K - tax $31,250 So just where are you drawing the middle class to claim there was no tax cut for the middle class?

KenDckey -> RE: Let's Raise Taxes (3/14/2008 9:41:31 PM)
Archer I have been trying to get him to respond to facts. I think they confuse him. Therefore I have chnaged to equal proteciton under the law to try to unconfuse him. What do you think?

Archer -> RE: Let's Raise Taxes (3/14/2008 9:53:40 PM)
Personally I think it's an ntentional ignoring of provided data, because it runs directly against his charge that the tax cuts gave no benifit to the mddle class. Problem is he overstated his case going from saying predominently bennifitted the wealthy to only benifitted the wealthy. He screwed up in his premise and has no way out without agreeing that the middle class has recieved some benifit.

luckydog1 -> RE: Let's Raise Taxes (3/14/2008 9:55:36 PM)
But the ridiculously partisan Brookings institutite put out a paper....IF you got less taxes and are not a millionare, you did them wrong and are a criminal. The guys paid by George Soros say so. They even made a report on it. Are you going to believe the reality of your actuall tax returns, or the Brookings institute????

KenDckey -> RE: Let's Raise Taxes (3/14/2008 10:05:08 PM)
You might be right Archer.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Let's Raise Taxes (3/14/2008 10:29:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster No, I can't imagine. My health insurance costs almost that much every year. I don't even know where one can live on that unless it's on a Uni campus or in Mom's basement. Maybe a cardboard box under a freeway overpass. Just sayin. [:D] You could argue I was on par with the living situation; I was living in Santiago, Chile. Lets see what 276k could afford... in a year... Yacht Private Plane Villa in France Annual Cost of a Loan on a 1.5 million dollar house (84 thousand per year) Bentley Continental GTC Dining Out 365 nights a year at $200 a night. All of these figures include plenty of space to afford a standard house mortgage, food, gasoline, health insurance, braces for the kids.... Now, what was that about not being rich? Can I be poor like you? Stephan I'll bet you had some killer wines down there. That was adjusted gross, and that was the last year we were together, and that was with a signing bonus my ex got and short-term cap gains on some exercised stock options. Fed taxes were 66k, IIRC. State taxes were about 25k. About 18k for the mortgage. Ad valorem and sales taxes (6%). Medical insurance premiums. Meds. Dental. Eyecare. Car insurance, maintenance, & petrol. Household maintenance. Dry cleaning (yes, necessary). Groceries. Phone & utilities. Clothing. Et cetera and so on. It adds up. Certainly comfortable that year, but not rich.

dcnovice -> RE: Let's Raise Taxes (3/14/2008 10:31:14 PM)
quote: the ridiculously partisan Brookings institutite Unlike AEI, Heritage, Hoover, Cato, CSIS . . . [:)]

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Let's Raise Taxes (3/14/2008 10:33:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster quote: ORIGINAL: Archer Funny the documented facts show they lead to LOWER per year deficits (Personally that's good but not good enough for me) As I have said several times it is the spending side of the equation that needs to be handled. Doesn't seem to matter which party of the two is in Congress both spend beyond a ballanced budget. How much beyond makes some difference but not enough to get us out of debt. This is something which is completely bizarre to me. Many people who post in political threads such as this go on about how such and such is a "documented fact" but never seem to be able to find the documentation. Go to the recent thread on Racism. Note how I link to an original source to support my point. Note how I always provide a link to that which factually supports my points (NOT blogs or op-ed pieces; facts). I rarely see anyone do that here. If people did that shit on the B.com "Politics and Such" forum, they'd be laughed off it. Also note that the above makes no mention of partisanship. I take it a general knowledge when it has been a story in AP every year since 2005 that the revenues from taxes have increased and that the deficit has been shrinking. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/13/business/13deficit.html Add to that the table from the OMB found here http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2004/tables.html enough source data found for you? and all it took tocheck was a 30 second google search. Widely reported fact don't need to have sources referenced they are considered general knowledge. Well, Archer, what do you think a publisher would do if you wrote a non-fiction book and half of your references stated "common knowledge"?

Owner59 -> RE: Let's Raise Taxes (3/14/2008 10:42:01 PM)
I`ll say it again. The law that`s about to expire will not raise taxes on anyone here. So stop farting for nothing.lol

Owner59 -> RE: Let's Raise Taxes (3/14/2008 10:53:30 PM)
Can anyone explain why someone should get a 106 thousand dollar deduction(all in the 1st year) on a $110,000 H-1 Hummer? Prior to enactment of the Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 (Jobs and Growth Act), the 2003 tax code schedule for business depreciation allowed for a deduction of up to $25,000 in the year of purchase of a truck or van weighing over 6,000 pounds, and set a five-year depreciation schedule. In March 2002, Congress passed an economic stimulus package that allowed an additional 30% “bonus deduction.” 10 With passage of the Jobs and Growth Act, Congress dramatically expanded the already generous SUV loophole by raising the deduction ceiling for certain purchases— including SUVs—from $25,000 to $100,000.2627 Under this new rule, the entire cost of all but one large SUV—the Hummer H1—can be deducted. This act also increased the “bonus deduction” from 30% to 50%3435, which businesses can utilize in the first year of purchase on the amount above the initial deduction. This bonus deduction was established in addition to the five-year depreciation schedule3839, which remained the same. Under the new plan, a business owner who purchases a $110,000 Hummer H1 in 2003 can now deduct a total of $106,000 in the first year (see table). WTF is with that? Why don`t we get a deduction like that? http://www.taxpayer.net/TCS/whitepapers/SUVtaxcredit.pdf

Muttling -> RE: Let's Raise Taxes (3/14/2008 10:53:58 PM)
All this whining about tax cuts and not a DAMN word about the federal deficit. As noted above, Bush has given tax breaks claiming it would stimulate the economy and make things better. ummm............When does the better part come in? When does this stimulation start? Oh yeah......How the FUCK do you expect to pay for all of this spending we're doing????? Oh well, "Let the next generation figure out how to pay for it".....That's been the motto of every president since Nixon with one exception.

Owner59 -> RE: Let's Raise Taxes (3/14/2008 11:01:30 PM)
Hey Muttling, I`ve mentioned it ,as well as the fact that we`re borrowing the money from the Saudis and from China. Putting these debts on our grandchildren is completely immoral and defines neo-conservatism perfectly. Bush has borrowed more money than all previous presidents combined. Despite neo-con spin,that`s not a small amount of money. It`s the equivelent of all money ever borrowed in America`s 200 plus year history. It`s going to take a long time to get out of this hole. The rich (and stupid middle class republicans) got us into this mess. Let`s let them help get us out.

UtopianRanger -> RE: Let's Raise Taxes (3/14/2008 11:14:56 PM)
quote: They get a return on their investment, pay taxes on their earnings, and in the meantime create 'middle class' jobs and opportunity. Take them out of the picture, or disincentive them to make income and they'll sit contently on their diversified investments enjoying their yachts, homes, and luxury. You can't tax them if they keep their money on the sidelines and don't generate income. That's a fully parroted misnomer. Demand creates jobs.... Capital only facilitates demand. Give me a five-trillion dollar, debt-money-created credit card and we both can lay claim to a miraculous recovery. Taxing the fruits of ones labor/creativity or their personal investments is fucking stupid and counter productive....But taxing all Wall Street transactions at a half to one percent would revitalize our nation. Re-institute the ''Tobin Tax'' {See James Tobin} and protect our markets with tariffs. The old-fashioned, nationalistic way. As far as rich people.....I can think of a few country clubs a few miles over the hill--out in the sand and cacti-- from you that don’t let people join unless their worth at least twenty. [;)] - R

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Let's Raise Taxes (3/14/2008 11:33:05 PM)
quote: I`ll say it again. The law that`s about to expire will not raise taxes on anyone here. So stop farting for nothing.lol Owner, they take 20% of my money now. Of course, that's only federal income taxes. The Feds also tax my gasoline, cigarettes, beer, etc. Add state and local taxes and I pay almost 40% of my income to the fucking government. I am not rich by any standard. I work my ass off and I have never been on any kind of government assistance in my life. I paid for my own college, while others took Pell grants and loans from the Federal government (with my damn money!) . They will take more, and there is no such thing as a tax exclusively on the rich. The rich get taxed and they pass that cost down to the consumer; ie you and me. I drive a 11 year old car. I pinch and save every penny I can. I am responsible and obey the law. What thanks do I get for my efforts? I get to work almost half of my time to pay the government. Now at the onset of a recession, they want to take more. Well fuck them. I won't vote for anyone that agrees with this bullshit, and I will encourage others to do the same.

Stephann -> RE: Let's Raise Taxes (3/14/2008 11:52:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Muttling All this whining about tax cuts and not a DAMN word about the federal deficit. As noted above, Bush has given tax breaks claiming it would stimulate the economy and make things better. ummm............When does the better part come in? When does this stimulation start? Oh yeah......How the FUCK do you expect to pay for all of this spending we're doing????? Oh well, "Let the next generation figure out how to pay for it".....That's been the motto of every president since Nixon with one exception. COUGH. Stephan

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