RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... (Full Version)

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BitaTruble -> RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... (3/16/2008 10:02:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aladybug

I love and adore my Owner terribly. It mortifies me when I cannot find the inner resources to endure his methods.


That's just a matter of finding the right tool for the job. If he thinks your dancing sucks, take some dance lessons and get better. When he insults something you do, try turning it into something humorous.

Him: You tango like a dead crane.

You: True, but I can mambo like a contortionist!

If you can laugh at your flaws, you won't have the time to cry about them and while your laughing about it, you can put your energy into working to improve those areas with which he finds fault. Look, you're not going to be perfect, so don't try to be but you don't have to keep such burdens on your shoulders either. Does he even know that you cry nearly every day?
You know, you don't always get what you want, you get what you get. It's working with what you get and trying to make the most out of it that's going to go a long way in helping you to max out your happiness potential. You love him, but realize that he's never going to be perfect either. I mean, you must be doing something right because he's kept you so far, so try not to beat yourself up to much.

quote:

I know a good slave tolerates anything that is dished out.  When I tell him how much this type of thing hurts me, he scoffs and makes it seem like I am complaining that he doesn't fuck me enough. 


If that's your definition of a good slave, who am I to argue? It really sucks when we try to tell our Masters how to Master us and they don't listen. On top of that it rarely works out the way we want anyway. Go figure. Those Master types tend to want to be the ones in charge. ::grins::

quote:

Is there something I am mentally not doing that I am crying nearly every day?


How come you're not crying every day? Only nearly every day? What happens on the days you don't cry? What's your mindset on those days? What's he doing on those days? I'd suggest trying to figure out the triggers for the good stuff so you can make them repeatable. Do you go into crying jags when he gets into some particular mood? Find the triggers first then see what you can do to work on those.

quote:

I know I am supposed to be all about him, but I feel like a prizefighter that has been knocked to the ground unconcious. Is there some kind of positive mental training I can give myself to not get "knocked out" and accept that I deserve this, without falling apart and feeling paralyzed?


Have you tried meditation? Tai chi? Yoga? Anything to clear the cobwebs and help keep you mentally centered? Without knowing what you've already tried to do, it's hard to give advice on what else you can try.

I'm sorry I can't be of any real help here, but there's not a whole lot of information with which to work. How long have you been his slave? Do you live together? How long have the crying jags been going on? Has anything changed recently? New job, moved, illness?

I hope you stop by the forums and let everyone know how you're doing and if you want to provide more information, perhaps you'll be able to garner some additional input from the forum dwellers.

Best of luck,

Celeste



Noah -> RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... (3/16/2008 10:38:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah
Can we try to use some discretion with bullshit language like "good slave", especially when attempting to counsel noobs?
Nope, I stand by what I said.  I've never known a modern consensual slave who was considered good in the long term, by themselves or their master, by not making sure they would be fulfilled in that situation.
 


So a slave is not good unless she makes sure she will be fulfilled by what she is about to get involved with? You seem to require the ability to see the future.

How is it that a person is supposed to know "what she's getting into and know it's right for her" if she has had no experience with the thing in question?

How about every "modern consensual slave" who has ever lived, at the moment of getting involved in her (or his) first power exchange relationship? Can a person in this position "make sure" that this brave new experiment will be fulfilling? Must they not proceed unless they know in advance that it will be fulfilling? If they do proceed anyway must it be in the awareness that they are undertaking this very difficult personal challenge as Not Good slaves, in your view?

 I have never been able to "make sure" any relationship of any sort would be fulfilling, or that it would stay that way. The only way I know to come anywhere near making sure something will be fulfilling is to throw my heart and my energy into it and see what happens one day at a time.


quote:

She can still be a slave, but not anything I'd consider good
.
 
In my view, LA, you've just trumped every clueless HNG who ever posted here.  That is the shittiest thing I've ever heard anyone say about another person in these forums. And I find nauseating the irony that you level that kind of judgement--against a stranger--who by her own testimony is at the point of tears as a result of some very rough emotional treatment.

To the OP: thanks for getting in touch on the other side. I hope my friend can be of some service to you. Rest assured that neither she nor I have decided that you are nothing we'd consider good.





HalfShyHalfWild -> RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... (3/16/2008 10:58:32 PM)

I like your posts in here Noah. I'm glad the OP reached out. And to the OP, I sincerely hope you find what you need, not what you think you should be according to others. Good luck to you.



OmegaG -> RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... (3/17/2008 9:19:18 AM)

m'Lord has expressed to me from day one that he desires multiple partners, and has at times told me about those who he's met, played with and is considering more.  However, he is very clear when he talks to me that these people are not better/hotter/more desireable then me, for he is passionate about me as well, these people are just different and fufil a different set of needs then I do.

He also reminds me often that I am free to express when I feel uncomfortable with any situation he presents that involves me, if I ever feel insecure I'm to talk to him about it and he also wants my imput about other partners if I feel a bit uneasy about the dynamics they are creating.

Basically he wants to make sure that I dig anything that would affect my psyche, he doesn't want broken toys.



Stephann -> RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... (3/17/2008 9:35:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

He is an emotional sadist; you are not an emotional masochist. I have no words of wisdom to help you stay. The things that you said that I find very revealing are: 

1.  I know a good slave tolerates anything that is dished out.

I call bullshit on that one. You are a PERSON first.

2.  When I tell him how much this type of thing hurts me, he scoffs and makes it seem like I am complaining that he doesn't fuck me enough. 

You are telling him he is hurting your feelings and not only is he not hearing you, he is dismissing you AND your feelings.

3.  I am crying nearly every day  and  accept that I deserve this,

If you are crying every day about something, then it is certainly not healthy for you.  And you don't "deserve" someone treating you like dirt unless you WANT to be treated like dirt.

Cali



While I agree there's some emotional sadomasochism going on here, I wouldn't say she's not an emotional masochist.  I'd say her willingness (indeed, she seems eager) to engage and maintain this relationship says she probably is, in fact, an emotional masochist.   She's hurting, and the first thing she says is "what's wrong with me?" 

ladybug,

Your guy's a sadist.  A hard core emotional sadist.  He also doesn't sound like a particularly nice man.  Maybe that's something you enjoy, so it's fine if you do.  If you aren't happy with the situation, you owe it to yourself to find a better one.  Staying with him doesn't make you a 'good' slave, and leaving wouldn't make you a bad slave; it makes you someone who's chosen to enter a relationship that she might not be compatible with.

Regards,

Stephan



velvetears -> RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... (3/17/2008 9:55:20 AM)

Love doesn't always equate with compatibility.  You may love this dom but that doesn't mean he's good for you.  You have to decide for yourself where to draw the emotional line. 

You stated, "I know a good slave tolerates anything that is dished out."  Not sure where you got this idea?  From your dom maybe?  How about stop trying to be the ideal slave and just be the slave YOU are.  If something is going on that puts you in so much emotional angst you are in tears everyday either there is some payoff somewhere (you really are an emotional masochist) or somethings has to give or it will break.  Decide which of those two options fit you. 

One question for you, you stated, "accept that I deserve this" - can you explain why?  Is this what he has told you? Do you feel in general all slaves deserve bad treatment? 



Urdok -> RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... (3/17/2008 10:32:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann


While I agree there's some emotional sadomasochism going on here, I wouldn't say she's not an emotional masochist.  I'd say her willingness (indeed, she seems eager) to engage and maintain this relationship says she probably is, in fact, an emotional masochist.   She's hurting, and the first thing she says is "what's wrong with me?" 


 
That seems more like self esteem issues than actual emotional masochism to me. People in abusive relationships often internalize the abuse and blame themselves for it- whether it is emotional or physical.  It is fairly typical stuff. To hear people say "he hits be because he loves me" is not uncommon. Just because the abuser was clever enough to tie it into a BDSM framework does not change the facts.
 
My advice would be to dump the mother fucker already and find a therapist to help with your self esteem issues. Your "owner" seems like a world class jerk-off.



sirsholly -> RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... (3/17/2008 10:39:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aladybug


I know a good slave tolerates anything that is dished out. 


I bet your prince of a master is the one that told you this. It is total horseshit.

Get your self esteem where it should be and kick his sorry ass to the curb.



Stephann -> RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... (3/17/2008 10:46:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Urdok

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann


While I agree there's some emotional sadomasochism going on here, I wouldn't say she's not an emotional masochist.  I'd say her willingness (indeed, she seems eager) to engage and maintain this relationship says she probably is, in fact, an emotional masochist.   She's hurting, and the first thing she says is "what's wrong with me?" 


 
That seems more like self esteem issues than actual emotional masochism to me. People in abusive relationships often internalize the abuse and blame themselves for it- whether it is emotional or physical.  It is fairly typical stuff. To hear people say "he hits be because he loves me" is not uncommon. Just because the abuser was clever enough to tie it into a BDSM framework does not change the facts.
 
My advice would be to dump the mother fucker already and find a therapist to help with your self esteem issues. Your "owner" seems like a world class jerk-off.


First off, you might be dead on.  I'm not saying it isn't a possibility that it's just a classic abuse relationship.  But I am suggesting that it might not be a situation of abuse.  We do agree, the guy's a jerk.

My point is, that even if he's an abuser, she has to decide for herself if she wishes to maintain this relationship.  The telling point for me is she doesn't once mention "I wish he'd do something different."  She wants to continue to please this man, knowing exactly what he's like.  Abusees often fantasize about how great things would be if only he didn't hit me/cheat on me/lie to me.  They don't talk about becoming better for the abuser; they talk about him becoming better for her.

This, to me, suggests there is a strong emotional masochism streak here.  We don't really have enough information to know if the man is dangerous/unhealthy/wrong for her though.

Stephan



Urdok -> RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... (3/17/2008 10:54:13 AM)

quote:



First off, you might be dead on.  I'm not saying it isn't a possibility that it's just a classic abuse relationship.  But I am suggesting that it might not be a situation of abuse.  We do agree, the guy's a jerk.

My point is, that even if he's an abuser, she has to decide for herself if she wishes to maintain this relationship.  The telling point for me is she doesn't once mention "I wish he'd do something different."  She wants to continue to please this man, knowing exactly what he's like.  Abusees often fantasize about how great things would be if only he didn't hit me/cheat on me/lie to me.  They don't talk about becoming better for the abuser; they talk about him becoming better for her.

This, to me, suggests there is a strong emotional masochism streak here.  We don't really have enough information to know if the man is dangerous/unhealthy/wrong for her though.

Stephan



You might be right about that. And she does need to decide for herself to end the relationship- though in my opinion, she definately ought to. We don't have the full story, but if what we have been given is in any way typical, this relationship isn't a healthy venue to explore whatever emotional masochism may or may not be present.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... (3/17/2008 6:03:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah
So a slave is not good unless she makes sure she will be fulfilled by what she is about to get involved with? You seem to require the ability to see the future.
To a fair extent, yes I do.  Any commitment any person makes about the future goes on the same principle.  There's a level of reasonability here of course.
quote:


How is it that a person is supposed to know "what she's getting into and know it's right for her" if she has had no experience with the thing in question?
Time, talking, experience.  She might believe it's right for her and finds out she's wrong.  That's ok.  But most of the time they don't even have any clue of what they really believe at all.
quote:


How about every "modern consensual slave" who has ever lived, at the moment of getting involved in her (or his) first power exchange relationship? Can a person in this position "make sure" that this brave new experiment will be fulfilling? Must they not proceed unless they know in advance that it will be fulfilling? If they do proceed anyway must it be in the awareness that they are undertaking this very difficult personal challenge as Not Good slaves, in your view?
I would not call them "good slaves" myself.  I would call them hopeful.
quote:


I have never been able to "make sure" any relationship of any sort would be fulfilling, or that it would stay that way. The only way I know to come anywhere near making sure something will be fulfilling is to throw my heart and my energy into it and see what happens one day at a time.
If all relationships need is heart and energy, hardly anyone would get divorced- it's hardly ever from a lack of love or effort.  Relationships require much more than that.
quote:


In my view, LA, you've just trumped every clueless HNG who ever posted here.  That is the shittiest thing I've ever heard anyone say about another person in these forums. And I find nauseating the irony that you level that kind of judgement--against a stranger--who by her own testimony is at the point of tears as a result of some very rough emotional treatment.
What on earth in my 15000+ posts has led you to believe I'm anything BUT severely judgmental?
 
Does anyone agree that a "good slave is one who just accepts whatever their master gives them"?  To even ANSWER that question requires some judgement at some point on what is good and what is not.
 
Apparently you find my behavior in this thread to be deviant from the past, while I find it completely in line.
quote:


To the OP: thanks for getting in touch on the other side. I hope my friend can be of some service to you. Rest assured that neither she nor I have decided that you are nothing we'd consider good.

Awww yes how sweet, listen to the ones who pat you on the head and make you feel good and deny all the ones who challenge you.  Much easier.



aladybug -> RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... (3/17/2008 9:19:00 PM)

hello,

I just wanted to make a followup post.

First off, thank you everyone for your feedback.  I don't really care that it has generated a bit of argumentative discussion because I think this is a touchy area. 

Thanks especially to slaveluci for the reposting of the slave register, and to Celeste for your suggestion that I approach this with a bit of sly humor.  Actually, I think the best approach to dealing with my Owner IS humor, is in showing that I can deflect what he does, not wallow in it. Part of what prompted him to make me his slave is that I make him laugh - not apparent here - but you know "the tears of a clown..."

I still don't know where it will go.  There is so much more going on (of course) and the minute details are not something I would share in a public forum.

One thing I think I am realizing from this, regardless of anything my Owner is doing, is that my relationship to emotional pain is not that of a "non-emotional-masochist" but that of an emotional pain addict. It brings me no joy but I neeeeed it.

Yes I am revealing a bunch of internal stuff here, but I also feel that what I am processing is not unique, so it is useful. I actually do not care about anyone's opinions about my choices - positive or negative - because the only opinions I care about are those of the person who owns me.  If this is a bad "love match" so be it - I will eventually move on.  But this is the level of devotion that I *need* to offer.  That is who I am.  Ultimately nothing to do with my relationship to pain - the pain is a means to an end.

thanks again, I will keep checking in.



solia -> RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... (3/17/2008 9:22:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aladybug

I love and adore my Owner terribly. It mortifies me when I cannot find the inner resources to endure his methods.

Almost all of our interactions take the following structure:
Set Up - something generous or kind to catch me off guard.
Punch Number One - something sadistic and cruel to devistate me.
Punch Number Two - something to remind me that he will always have fun despite me.

I will give a semi-fictionalized example. We go on a rare date to a fun music club.  He asks me out on the dance floor, where I am in heaven in his arms. At the end, he insults my dancing, then spends the rest of the evening flirting with another woman whom he has informed me he would love to fuck all night. (I have never been subject to this type of passion with him.)

I know a good slave tolerates anything that is dished out.  When I tell him how much this type of thing hurts me, he scoffs and makes it seem like I am complaining that he doesn't fuck me enough. 

Is there something I am mentally not doing that I am crying nearly every day? I know I am supposed to be all about him, but I feel like a prizefighter that has been knocked to the ground unconcious. Is there some kind of positive mental training I can give myself to not get "knocked out" and accept that I deserve this, without falling apart and feeling paralyzed?


If it's not mutually fullfilling than it's not good ... and obviously, you do not deserve this abusive behavior on his part .. I would recommend removing yourself and finding someone who will truly listen to you and consider your feelings, desires, needs on a mutual basis.



lally3 -> RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... (3/18/2008 6:44:43 AM)

.. the worst impact that i see in this is that its going to make you start to question your own desirability.  this sort of behaviour from certain types of emotionally challenged men comes from their own insecurity.  he thinks he is saying 'i dont need you one little bit'  what he is actually saying is 'i need to see you hurt so that i can be sure you still care'.

emotional abuse is one of the worst, cos theres nothing you can really grab a hold of.  when all is level he is probably great, which throws you off guard totally.  then comes the abuse., and it is abuse in my book.  working down a persons self worth to the point where it is so non-existant you cant imagine ever being attractive to anyone ever again is selfish and wrong.  who on earth gives any one the right to screw around with another persons head with such callous impunity.

you know what id do next time, if there is a next time.  nothing, do not react to him in any way atall, see what happens then.  ill bet my last pound he'll want to know why.



Leatherist -> RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... (3/18/2008 7:25:25 AM)

I can't tell you how to cope.

Only that I'd tend to avoid doing something like what you describe with someone who couldn't handle it.



zuki -> RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... (3/18/2008 10:59:37 AM)

ask yourself a question, is being treated this way and feeling this way your idea of fun? for some it is, but not for all.



abeke -> RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... (3/18/2008 4:05:37 PM)

     First I find it a bit ironic that you adore your owner 'terribly'.    Secondly, he states that you are complaining because you are not being 'f**cked enough yet you state you have not known that passion, it sort of sounds like you are not getting it at all.
   I am totally not of the opinion that NO ONE even a good slave must tolerate whatever is dished out.   What if he wanted to cut off your little finger?   Would you be a bad slave if you denied him that sadistic pleasure?    What you are describing is mental and emotionally abusive if you are crying every day as you stated and many who have suffered extreme mental and emotional abuse might feel that loosing a little finger more preferable.
  
quote:

Is there something I am mentally not doing that I am crying nearly every day?
   IMHO YES, realizing that good slave or not, you are a human being with feelings.     It's up to you to stop the treatment that you are feeling is unjust.   Slave or not you still have a choice to stay and take it or leave.   
       
   



Noah -> RE: Set-Up, One-Two Punch... (3/18/2008 4:36:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Awww yes how sweet, listen to the ones who pat you on the head and make you feel good and deny all the ones who challenge you.  Much easier.


In this thread you've decided that calling her a no good slave is the preferred method of challenging someone who asks for help in what may well be a dangerous situation.

I'd say: "That's cool." except it isn't.

I referred ladybug to someone bright, caring, realistic and very experienced with emotional masochism, someone who works as a licensed professional healer in multiple modalities. My theory is that hard-headed advice can be given with care rather than derision.




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