MAKING someone Submissive (Full Version)

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LotusSong -> MAKING someone Submissive (3/16/2008 2:41:39 PM)

For all you Master's out there:
 
I just had a thought ramble across my mind this morning and thought I'd ask it (of course I have my own opinion on this).
 
Do you think it is possible to MAKE someone submissive and if so, how would you go about it?




HypnoticDan -> RE: MAKING someone Submissive (3/16/2008 4:39:29 PM)

IMHO it's like asking how do you make a tree blossom. You don't. They either have it in them or they don't. I won't argue that everyone has it to some degree but if they're not in touch with that part of themselves (or they just don't lean that way) then it ain't gonna happen.

Now if they have submissive tendencies and don't recognize them for what they are... then it's a question of educating them in a way that doesn't run and hide from themselves. (or you, for that matter.)




PlayfulOne -> RE: MAKING someone Submissive (3/16/2008 4:49:21 PM)

Can I make a dog a cat?

K




SteelofUtah -> RE: MAKING someone Submissive (3/16/2008 5:46:36 PM)

No, you can't.

No explanation just No you can't

Steel




LadyHibiscus -> RE: MAKING someone Submissive (3/16/2008 5:48:41 PM)

I'll give that one a "no".  You can coerce a person into doing things for you, but that does not equate with submission IMO.




DiurnalVampire -> RE: MAKING someone Submissive (3/16/2008 5:50:17 PM)

I dont think someone can be made submissive.  They can be made to ACT submissively, but their heart wouldnt be in it.

DV




Lashra -> RE: MAKING someone Submissive (3/16/2008 5:52:49 PM)

You can put a mask on someone but is what lies beneath a true reflection of that mask? No it isn't. You can't make someone anymore "truly" submissive than you can make someone "truly" dominant. Oh you can get them to go through the moves, but can you change their core? No.

~Lashra




Leatherist -> RE: MAKING someone Submissive (3/16/2008 6:18:34 PM)

I can force someone to submit.

I can't force them to want to.

It's not rocket science.




kinkypuppy2 -> RE: MAKING someone Submissive (3/16/2008 9:14:49 PM)

No..

All you can do is keep that fire burning if it is indeed kindling inside them




SteelofUtah -> RE: MAKING someone Submissive (3/16/2008 10:12:01 PM)

WAIT WAIT WAIT

Apparently Jeffery Dhamer used a Drill and Boric Acid.

Give that a Try tell me how it all works out for you

Steel




HeavansKeeper -> RE: MAKING someone Submissive (3/17/2008 12:40:35 AM)

I'm not entirely sure the answer should be such a resounding "no."  To say something cannot be taught means that it is entirely innate; no influence from upbringing at all.

I believe that almost (if not all) traits are a split of nature and nurture.  Hell, even height has to do with diet and (perhaps) sleeping habits. 

In a hypothetical, if the child was available from birth, I'm confident it could be made submissive (or dominant).  There are people who are raised to believe many things.  I seriously doubt homophobia is a purely natural (meaning encoded in the genome) phenomena.  If irrational beliefs can be taught, I don't see why submission, a PERFECTLY rational action cannot.

In practice, I feel it would take too much time and any 18+ year old specimen would be "too old to begin the training." (Training here meaning "teaching to BECOME submissive)

If I wanted to go about it, I'd go with "By submitting, you make me so happy I will ...."  This gives the submissive to be a reward for submitting.  If the reward normally exceeds the demanded action, then it will be done.

Overall, I concur with Lashra.  Anyone can put on a mask for 10 minutes... 2 hours... a weekend... a month... 6 years...

Eventually it will come off.






Focus50 -> RE: MAKING someone Submissive (3/17/2008 3:25:29 AM)

You can only provide an atmosphere/environment/dynamic by which that person's innately submissive traits and needs etc can flourish; you can't provide them with those traits anymore than you can make a gay person hetero.  If it ain't already in them, it never will be....
 
Focus.




Stephann -> RE: MAKING someone Submissive (3/17/2008 8:32:32 AM)

I think the question is moot.  No one person can definitively know that another is submissive or not.  A woman who tells me she is submissive (and wishes to submit to me), yet over three months consistantly attempts to dominate me and others, takes every opportunity to do only what she wishes, and shows zero interest in really submitting by her words, actions, and deeds, suggests to me that she isn't submissive (contrary to her self-assigned label of submissive.)  I can only act on what I observe in others; part of that observation includes the things she actually tells me.

With that said, someone who doesn't demonstrate any submissive traits, who is interested in learning to be a submissive can certainly learn this.  With an honest desire to learn, a person can be exposed to situations that they might not have considered or experienced.  In part, as Focus mentioned, setting the environment and offering a perspective from which a person approaches D/s is an important step in teaching the concepts of submission.  Anyone who's been in the military can tell you how easy it is to teach the concepts of obedience.

Yet a person who is skilled in submitting, isn't necessary going to be someone who enjoys submitting.  No matter how much training one receives in, say, being a butler, it doesn't guarantee that he will enjoy his job.  Yet one who's never been given a chance to try even the most basic of tasks isn't likely to be in a position to accurately assess if they'll ultimately enjoy it or not.  In fact, I'd suggest that many male dominants aren't necessarily actually dominant, but rather have learned dominance is a tool they can effectively use to attract a desirable partner.  In short, they 'learn' to become dominant, not because it is an accurate reflection of their personalities, but rather more like one might see others dressing well, dance well, or any other skill that increases their social standing.

So yes, you can teach someone how to submit, you can make them submit, but it might not make them a person who enjoys being submissive. 

Stephan




ownedgirlie -> RE: MAKING someone Submissive (3/17/2008 8:40:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann
So yes, you can teach someone how to submit, you can make them submit, but it might not make them a person who enjoys being submissive. 

Stephan


 
What a great post (all of it).  The open mind is refreshing.




FRSguy -> RE: MAKING someone Submissive (3/17/2008 9:36:08 AM)

If its not in them it really is not in then. Although I think there are a lot of people out there that definatly have the mind for it they really have to get passed a lot of self esteem and control issues not just sexual. I have done it but it was there allready I just had to bring it out.




Urdok -> RE: MAKING someone Submissive (3/17/2008 10:14:59 AM)

Well, it is very possible to make someone subservient. There's a long and ugly history of human beings breaking each other.

Can you make someone submissive, as the word is used in the BDSM context? I doubt it.




amayos -> RE: MAKING someone Submissive (3/17/2008 10:21:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
Do you think it is possible to MAKE someone submissive and if so, how would you go about it?


Isolation, breaking, capture bonding—a degree of which could never be construed as legal.




chaosforge -> RE: MAKING someone Submissive (3/17/2008 10:29:19 AM)

When faced with the situtation of "Do this or die," most people will obey. But we all know that is not submission, that's the preservation of life.




velvetears -> RE: MAKING someone Submissive (3/17/2008 10:33:58 AM)

Why would anyone want to?  Isn't it easier finding one who is submissive.  Maybe it would make the dom feel uber dominant if he could "make" someone submissive.




boytoy4female -> RE: MAKING someone Submissive (3/17/2008 10:35:37 AM)

I believe you can bring the submissive out in anyone. But, it is a process not an event. You must be creative and rescourseful. The actual path will vary with each individual. First, you must find or create the open door, no matter how little is cracked. Then you start working on it.

It is my experience that a man's sexuality and desire for sex is your best tool for opening the door. Maybe you just start with a playful tease and get them turned on. Then it may be easier to get them agree to the next step.

Remember just because you bring it out in them, doesnt mean they will make a good submissive.




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