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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 10:49:28 AM   
SailingBum


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cali,
I knew where you were coming from.  I was trying to wrap my mind around your concept. 


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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 10:51:09 AM   
PanthersMom


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sucks to love an addict, doesn't it?  ultimately, she must deal with her addiction herself, she must stop drinking forever, period.  if you aren't worth that, it wasn't meant to be.  i know it hurts, but the bottom line is when she drinks you and everything around her are in danger from her outbursts.  nobody can live like that.  best of luck, and stay strong.  maybe losing you might make her think of what's really important to her.
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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 10:56:33 AM   
ownedgirlie


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Extremely difficult situation but you can't cure anyone's addiction any more than you can cure someone from cancer.  Everything people have said here about the addict needing to want help before being helped, is correct.  Also, there are many addicts who do admit their addiction and who do want help, but who still fail.

Addiction is abound in my family.  We almost lost my brother to it.  We had to let him go until he hit his bottom, which meant his bottom became so bad that recovery finally seemed better.  Letting him go did not mean we didn't love him.  In fact, it broke our hearts.  His girl friend went to al-anon regularly, and cried regularly.  She could not help him, either.  No matter how strong her love was for him, she could not fix him.

Now, the addict lives for his/her high.  Those who love the addict live for the addicts moments of sobriety.  In both cases, all parties are living in partial reality.  I remember telling my therapist, in recovering from my marriage, that we had these moments of absolute chemistry and bliss, and if we could reach those, shouldn't we be able to reach that all the time?  But I learned those moments of bliss were my high, and they were not our norm.  Our norm was heartache, with sporadic moments of fun and joy.  Those moments were not enough to carry us.

The Andy Garcia/Meg Ryan movie was recommended (When a Man Loves a Woman).  Even more powerful than that, in my opinion, is the Jack Lemmon/Lee Remick movie, The Days of Wine and Roses.  I recommend that, for reasons you will understand after you see it.

Also, there's a great book, I Got Tired of Pretending, which you might want to give your loved one to read.

This is an extremely painful situation.  I wish you well with it.  Please know, unless you live healthy, with your own healthy boundaries, you are living in her world of addiction.

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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 11:25:06 AM   
joy2u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

How many couples out there have had to deal with similar conflicts?

Several years ago, i was in a vanilla relationship with a wonderful man who i met at my job (he was the mailman who delivered to my office).  He was really great and we got along very well.  He invited me out and we started to date.  When we were out, i never saw him drink more than 3 beers and he was always just as nice as he had been, sober.
 
Then i moved in with him and it didn't take me long before i noticed a very disturbing pattern.  Every afternoon, when he got home from work, the very first thing he would do is get 2 beers from the fridge and drink them down.  Then, he would drink a few more before the night was over.  This was a daily ritual.  He wasn't a mean drunk, but he was a drunk.  He always got to his job on time every morning and always did his job well.  He had been a mailman at the same post office for more than 20 years.  He was a 'working' drunk.  But, he was still a drunk. 
 
i cared about him and i wanted to help him.  i wanted to get him help.  i wanted him to get help.  i talked him into getting a physical, with the thought that the doctor would talk to him about his drinking and this would lead to him gettting the help he needed.  That evening, i asked him how the doctor's visit went and he told me that he had told the doctor that he "drank a minimum of a six pack a night."   But, he didn't feel that he needed to do anything about it and he wasn't going to. 
 
i also tried taking him on a small vacation, just him and i, in a very different environment, thinking that changing his surroundings and getting him away from his buddies and the stresses in his life, would help him to stop drinking.  He actually went for almost 2 days without any beer, but then i started to notice his uncontrollable shaking and he wasn't nearly as chearful and talkative as he had always been.  He got himself a six pack and promptly drank it in our hotel room and returned to his "normal" self. 
 
Finally, after 2 years of living with a drunk (even though he was a nice, fun, working drunk), i could see no hope of anything ever changing.  i got a brochure for a very nice alcohol treatment facility, nearby, and gave it to him and told him that either he got treatment for his alcoholism or i was leaving and i gave him 2 months to do it.  He didn't.  And, on January 2, 2000, i packed my things and checked into an efficiency motel room, until i found a house to move into.  i still saw him every day that he delivered mail to my office, but never had anything more to do with him. 

quote:

I honestly today, feel like I have no other choice other then to pack it in and walk away for my own sanity.   Part of me feels like I am being a quitter and that I'm gonna be letting her down in a major way.   I know that this will cause her some hurt, and suspect it's been slowly distressing her as much as it has been me. 

Only you can decide what to do, but ending the relationship could be just what she needs.  It could show her that her behavior is interfering in her personal relationships (one sign of a drinking problem) and it could be the incentive she needs to face up to her problem and get help.

quote:

I am interested in hearing from anybody who has stuck or toughed it out with a Loved one that has had a drinking problem.

i toughed it out for just over 2 years and it was nothing but a huge waste of 2 precious years.  i wish i could have those years back and not spend them trying to help a drunk who wasn't interested in getting help.  After that experience, i started to ask about drinking habits before getting into a relationship with someone and i paid close attention to signs of 'problem drinking'.

quote:

I am being pessimistic this morning and think this whole thing is just going to end.   People talk about Red Flags, I think I have reached the "White Flag" state of simply giving up and surrendering.   

Sometimes, quitting a situation that is hopeless and negative is the bravest and most helpful (to both of you) that you can do.  Good luck to you both.
 
joy
Owned servant of Master David

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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 11:42:52 AM   
tsatske


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I agree with you, Calif, a wide range of boundries are avialable. Just think through what you need. If a boundry does not work, (as in, if they will not respect it), a different one must be chosen.
My father has been sober about half as long as I have. When my children were small, he loved his grandchildren and enjoyed their company so much that he would chose to drink not at all when he was going to have them over. My dear husband and i had many discussions about it - that someday, he would no longer to be able to do that, and, the first time he drank around them, he would no longer be able to be alone with them. period. no neogating, trying again, no.
My dad quite drinking and driving a good decde before he quit drinking. his rule one, one drink, and no more driving that night. My family got quite mad at me when i set a limit with him and told him, i would no longer drive him while he was drinking. if he was too drunk to drive, i would also not drive him. after all, not driving while drinking was a good choice, why wouldn't i want to support that? well, because he is obnoixious and i don't want to be around him, he passes out in my car and has to be carried inside, he throws up in my car...
it is okay to set any limits that work for you. just be prepared to set them again, differently, if they are not honored.

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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 11:56:52 AM   
chellekitty


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i am posting this from the point of view of an addict in recovery...

this is going to be harsh but, cold, hard fact...from what you have said, if you were worth it to her to stop drinking, she already would have...you've talked to her about her drinking, told her what she does, shown her the consequenses of her drinking, even if she doesn't remember it...and yet she continues...the booze is still more important...

my suggestion, from my experience...stop enabling her, stop making the consequenses not so bad...and we co-dependents (i am one of those too, an adult child of an alcoholic, and now in a relationship with an addict - thankfully in recovery, he stops a lot of my co-dependent behavior) sure do love to stop people who are hurting themselves from feeling that pain...but you know...even when you wrap someone in bubble wrap to protect them, they learn that falling down doesn't hurt, and eventually those bubbles are going to pop and falling down is going to hurt, and they are going to be pissed of at you...

i don't know that my friend's and family's enabling caused me to go to the depths of my addiciton that i did, i can't look at the past and see "alternate endings"....but i am pretty sure that something would have been different if there were major consesquences for my actions before the age of 22...

i will totally echo the al-anon or perhaps coda meetings suggestion...the best thing you can do for your relationship, just like anyone else, is be healthy for yourself, rather than being healthy thru another person...you can't fix you by fixing someone else...

good luck
chelle

< Message edited by chellekitty -- 3/19/2008 11:57:47 AM >


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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 12:01:39 PM   
CreativeDominant


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Like several on here, I grew up with alcoholism.  My parents were functioning alcoholics from about 1969 until my father's death in 85 (when I was 30) and my mother's death in 92 (when I was 37).  My brother more or less raised ourselves which is why there are certain aspects of my own inner nature and behavior that I keep a close eye on...the biggest ones being restlessness and a weird mix of optimism/cynicism.

The one thing I learned during those years (from about age 14 on) was that I could not have done a thing to save them.  I could've called the cops...they would have put my brother and I into foster care, most likely but that would not have stopped my parents from drinking (they never saw themselves as having a problem...after all, they went to work each day and didn't suffer hangovers, right?).  My brother and I tried watering down the booze...not a good idea, they just drank more to get the buzz.  We tried pleading, crying, fighting with them...didn't make a difference...they needed to "relax" after a hard day and the'd worked hard to "earn" their little pleasures.  As a result, my brother and I are whatever we are...I happen to think two pretty good men (though you'd find some who disagree...~s~) who DON'T have problems with alcohol.  We saved ourselves...but not them.

Lady Hathor put it nicely...she has choices...the substance that will eventually kill her and maybe you or your spirit or the substance of the man.  You too have choices...it was rightly pointed out that all you are doing...even with the confrontation...is enabling her by allowing her to be in your life and make it toxic.  As an adult, you have the choice to walk away.  Compassion is a fine quality but to sacrifice yourself for those who recognize what you are doing and are appreciative of it is one thing...sacrifice of yourself to something that is selfish and devouring is another.

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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 12:06:40 PM   
stella41b


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I'm going to come in here on a rather more positive and hopefully optimistic note. It can change.

I've dealt with this on a personal level - referring to my own very short marriage which was basically a collision of my former wife's drinking problems and my own gender issues. It's gone eight years since the divorce, she's a happily married woman with two lovely children and no problems with drink When we were married three litres of grain vodka a day wasn't uncommon. This explains the gap in my artistic work - one production and one play written, an experience of death, a long battle with illness, and so many days spent in an alcoholic stupor or fighting the effects of a hangover.

I work with such people as alcohol and drug abusers in theatre workshops, there's a specific method and approach which so far has been very effective and I would be happy to share with the OP the details of that method.

Yes the substance is stronger, but that is only because the person is weaker and it is nothing more than human weakness which enslaves that person to the bottle or syringe. Addictions are very real, that power of alcohol or whatever is found in hard drugs such as crack or heroin is real power. The only person who has the power to overcome their addiction is the person themselves. If you were to ask them, the person will talk openly about that power which the bottle or needle has over them, and placing any emphasis or focus on the fact that their addiction is a problem usually defeats the purpose. They know it is a problem, and they are inclined to get very defensive when it is pointed out to them.

This isn't an easy situation to be in, neither for you nor for her. I can relate to this very well. In the theatre I have a brilliant administrator, let's call her Margaret (not her real name), who I've worked with before on the start of the project. Nobody can get funding or support like Margaret, she's totally dedicated, hardworking, super efficient, but... she's got a drink problem. I've witnessed the break down of her relationships (two), the loss of her job, almost all her friends, and last November had to let go myself. I made it perfectly clear I'm her friend, not her bottle's friend, and to be in theatre, where she still has a place, she has got to be 'on the ball'. The only place in theatre for people with drink and drug issues is the exit.

There's also Tommy (not his real name) who was in the original project. Tommy is 44, already lost two homes, 20 or so years fighting with the bottle, but you know he's a brilliant artist, cartoonist, and brilliant at writing comedy. I gave him a role in the original cast, he quit the drink, found the Church, became a born again Christian. During rehearsals he would sit in the corner, reading the Bible, praying for everyone. The hostel threatened him with eviction over charges he hadn't paid, he threatened suicide. I was one of two people who gained entry to his room to find him standing by the window, Stanley knife to his neck, doing nothing but listening intently, choosing our words carefully, with outstretched hands waiting for that Stanley knife. A month later the hostel evicted him out onto the streets. I and a few others would pay good money to find Tommy. If I ever do he's got my bedroom to sleep in.

You know, maybe it's because I myself knows what it feels like. I can't say I've ever had a drink problem, I've never taken drugs. Never want to. I'm a transgendered female, and all I ever wanted was to be myself. Many people would walk away. Most have. For some who I am isn't important, they just see that I am transgendered, this is the most important thing, not who I am as a person.

Isn't this the same as the alcoholic? This is what happens, the drink problem takes over and becomes far more important than the person themselves. They become labelled, stereotyped, people turn away, don't want to know. She has a problem, it's her problem, but in the eyes of others she becomes the problem. Even those close, friends and family forget who the person was, all they see is what the person has become, the problem.

The OP is not in an easy situation, and I write this being relieved I'm not the one standing in his shoes right now for all what I have to deal with and face in life. For sure yes, you can walk away, it will be hard, but it will be much easier than staying. You cannot blame people for walking away, turning away, not being there, they have their own lives, their own issues to deal with.

But this isn't about blame. Statements such as 'she's only got herself to blame for getting herself into this situation' are not helpful, not helpful at all. It doesn't help the situation one bit, and besides, she herself is very much aware of who's fault it is. She doesn't need any reminders.

You know it takes an awful amount of courage and strength to help someone in this situation, an awful amount of courage and strength, and a lot of people just feel that they don't have that amount of strength and courage to offer someone. Often also there's just not the circumstances or opportunities available, they too have to be created if you are going to help someone battling with a drink or drugs issue.

You are competing on an uneven surface. Alcohol is her best friend, because it never judges her, it's reliable, and it's effective at making her feel better. This is true of anyone with a drink problem.

There's only one way to beat an addiction, and that is to replace it with something better. You need to find that motivation which causes her to reach for the bottle and to direct that motivation elsewhere. We have that relacement here in the theatre, it's not a secret, nor is it a miracle, it's that need everyone has for recognition, for acknowledgement, for acceptance, for that 'fifteen minutes of fame and notoriety'. It's that promise we can make to someone that we can take them as they are, whoever they are, get to know them, discover what they can do, their talents, skills, experience, knowledge, and put them out there on the stage in front of other people to show them that they can do something which brings happiness and entertainment to other people. I stand among these people in a circle, and I tell them to look at me, and I walk up to them, and I ask them to step forward if they feel they are less acceptable to society than me. So far nobody has ever stepped forward.

No amount of alcohol can ever erase the fact that you are a human, that you are a person. The simple fact that you reach for that bottle is proof that you are human, for weakness is a part of being someone. We are all weak, and when you stop and think of it, we are all deprived in some way. We all suffer as a result of someone's prejudice. We all screw up.

I would strongly recommend to the OP a book entitled What Do You Say After You Say Hello? by Dr. Eric Berne who founded what is known as Transactional Analysis. The book is about psychoanalysis, written on the assumption that we are all living our lives according to a specific type of script and that we have three states within ourselves known as Parent, Adult and Child, which is basically a revision of Freud's ego, superego and id. The idea here is that we can change and rewrite the script on which our life is based whenever and however which way we want to.

It's entirely possible that your friend can overcome her addiction, just as it's entirely possible that you can be the one to help her, but what you need to do is to find out what motivates your friend to reach for the bottle and to understand it. Addictions don't just happen, but are developed over a period of time, and are actually quite a lengthy process. Therefore the recovery from an addiction is also developed over a period of time, and is also a lengthy process. She needs I feel what is known as 'tough love', a very firm but non-confrontational approach, a lot of security or a stable, secure environment, and a lot of support, ideally in a support network centred around something new which motivates her to do something other than reach for the bottle.

It's not easy because there are no guarantees. This is the reality you have to accept and live with. It could take weeks, months even years to get over, and then when you get over it there is never any guarantee that it won't come back. All it takes is one moment, one drink, one lie, a time of forgetfulness. Sometimes counselling doesn't work, nothing else works except for a secure institution and and a much more intensive program of therapy.

I somehow feel that the key is inspiration and empowerment of the person concerned. You are dealing with their will, only they can decide if they want to overcome their addiction or not, and you somehow have to come up with something stronger than alcohol to inspire them to want to overcome their addiction.

Then even when you are both winning the addiction and overcoming it, there is also the guilt and the shame that comes afterwards. The feeling that they have let other people down, that they have been stupid, and this is where this person needs support from other people, enough to say 'it doesn't matter', 'it's okay'. This is also important, as this guilt and shame can require a certain amount of courage and strength to face up to, it can undermine feelings of self-worth, self-confidence and push the person back towards the bottle.

I feel you somehow have to separate the person from the bottle. In the workshops I tell the participants that I cannot do anything else than be there for them, and that it is they themselves who have to find whatever it is they need to replace their addictions. They walked in through the door, and they can just as easily walk out of it. They are welcome any time as long as they are not accompanied by alcohol. I'm not going to stop them going off and buying alcohol and sitting with their alcoholic friends if that is what they really want and feel they need. But if they do decide that is what they want, well they can leave the text on the table by the door and say goodbye to everyone before they leave. The rest of us will just carry on without them, minus the labels and stereotypes. So far in most cases it works.

It's also worth bearing in mind that many people with drink problems are very strong, often talented, gifted people who are being weak. Indeed, my experiences with the entertainment industry in Poland have led me to believe that if it wasn't for vodka the Polish film industry would never be able to get a film together. Most alcoholics have been someone, almost all have an amazing story to tell about their lives, some can even do some amazing things. The inner strength of the person who has the drink problem is usually the biggest resource they have against their addiction.

I keep in touch with Margaret, mainly to let her know that everything is still going to be there when she does finally make it. The search for Tommy is passive, but is now just over 18 months. Both have a place open there for them, but they are the ones who have to really want the place.

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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 3:54:35 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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For me the response is simple, if painful, and it is something I have low tolerance for.

She stops drinking today.  If she feels she does not have the control to stop and stay off alcohol, she gets into a program tomorrow.

Until that happens, the relationship does not exist.

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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 4:42:36 PM   
corsetgirl


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I was once married to a man who drank for the most part and it was very painful because at that time, his children were living with us.  His drinking caused more isolation from me on my part because it is hard to communicate to anybody when they have been drinking. His drinking got to the point where he became very abusive towards me and for my own sanity, I had to get out of that situation. 

I would want to try to encourage her to get some counseling or AA if you choose to continue this relationship.  If she refuses, then you need to move on and have no contact with her until she does get help until she become sober.  She also needs to recognize she has a problem.   I know that it is pretty hard to do when you love someone but that is what tough love is all about.  

At one time, my father had a drinking problem and my mother told him that if he does not quit, he will lose his family, which was something he did not want to do and changed that lifestyle.  We were a close family and had he chosen the booze, that would have changed my outlook regarding the relationship with my dad. 

Please do not let history repeat itself for your life considering what you have told us about your family background.

< Message edited by corsetgirl -- 3/19/2008 4:45:03 PM >

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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 6:02:22 PM   
Prinsexx


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This touches my heart as my mother, god rest her soul, was an alcoholic.
Her personality change when drinking was weird as a child because sis and I had to kind of accept it. but the pleasant woman that used to be when she first started drinking well that submerged underneath a first assertive woman and then a ranting uninhibited raging one that crashed out with major migraine headaches and was always broke and so on...her life rotated around going to the pub and she thought nothing of spending the money she had, the only money she had on booze, in a post war culture that accepted both her drinking and apparent liberation.
Me? I have a switch that goes off in me when I drink. I can feel it: I call it when the breaks come off. It happens earlier and earlier these days so all I have to do is have a sip....it's mentally and physically and socially really hard to stop myself from doing something which was so much a part of my life and upbrining....mom put rum in our feeding bottles and i was tipping back whiskey at 5 years old. i had been drinking two to three bottles of vodka a day when i lived and worked in Moscow.....that didn't even feel excessive given the cultural climte but then I had a nanny and a driver so my life (I excused it all anyway) didn't seem to be impaired back then...
.
but in terms of my demeanor> It certainly makes me a snarky bitch and it isn't the switch side og ne either...it's just i quite simply have begun to see my persoaniliyt change and sometimes i feel ok and it doesn't flre up but other times I know it could have the power to destroy a power balance in the power dynamic...


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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 6:12:17 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Didn't read past the OP....

My former slave was a dry drunk.  I didn't even know what that MEANT until after we broke up.  When he told me that he had been sober for 20 years, I didn't have a clue that he could still be an addict.  It made our whole relationship essentially untenable.

I feel for you in this difficult time.  I hope that you make the right  decision for YOURSELF and walk away from this train wreck.  

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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 7:36:52 PM   
kallisto


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The OP has received some very sound advice.  It certainly is a small world when so many have been through similiar situations.    No matter who the person is, whether it's a parent, spouse, sibling, significant other, etc, being an alcoholic affects everyone that person has contact with. 

I was picking my mother up from the local bar when I was 11 years old.   We lived exactly one mile from the bar.  I would walk there from our house at midnight and put her in the car and drive it home and take her in and put her bed.   When we would go visit other family, she hid her liquor in the toliet tank.   She was never a mean drunk, her boyfriends were.    Too many tales to tell there.

All I know is this - you can't make an alcoholic stop drinking.  It has to be their choice to stop.    But you have to make the choice as to whether you want to continue to go through what you've been going through.    You do have choice over you and the relationship.   

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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/19/2008 10:28:42 PM   
chellekitty


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it seems as though this is a very near and not so dear subject to many of the frequent posters on these boards...i just wanted to address one thing...i believe that people in active addiction are not being weak...it takes a lot of strength to survive active addiction...people without that strength quit...not that the strength it is always a good thing (a lot of the time it is not)...but it is something that you have to look at when talking to an addict, especially one who is still using...
i guess one final note is that you can look into having an intervention done...i know it sounds hokey, but i have become very close to someone recently who does them and from the interventionist side it is an amazing process...fulfilling and rewarding and all these positive things that are hard to describe, and though i don't know about it from the otherside - the addict and the family and friends of the addict, i imagine, if done right it can be equally rewarding and empowering, and the people i know see it through to a year clean and sober and offer to be availble for a lifetime...if you want to email me on the otherside with an outside email address (i can't email out through CM mail), i would be happy to tell you more...

take care
chelle


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RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/20/2008 5:26:24 AM   
ELUSIVE1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

You have been getting some great advise. There is nothing you can do about her problem. Giving her an ultimatum will change nothing. She will just move on to someone else.


This is SO true...recognize it is HER problem, then decide if you want to continue on in hopes that things will change, or throw in the towel and consider it a lesson learned


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(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/20/2008 6:16:11 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
I want to thank everybody for the all responses.  Some of the posts have hit hard at home with me.

I honestly think the world of this girl and this has disturbed me deeply.   I've never dated nor had a relationship with anybody who drank very much at all.   However, this experience has forced me to take a good look at myself and my life in the mirror.

I find my opening post to be rather lacking, after doing some introspection and thinking about what everybody has posted.

I wish I could say that she's the only one with the drinking problem/issue.  I myself have my own degree of shame for my own past alcohol abuse.   My last round with my own abuse happen a few years back and lasted for about 6-7 monthes.  Actually a little longer considering I started resorting to drinking at the end of a long term relationship I was in.  When the relationship ended, I literally was drowning my own pain and sorrows away nightly at the bars.   I went through a lot of money, that would have been better and more wisely spent. 

I sit here and literally cringe at the large amount of money I wasted like this, worse yet, there was nobody around me that said, Hey you have a drinking problem.   Nobody in my life to smack me upside my head at the time for help. Basically during this time period I did more drinking then I did working, and was simply draining my fat bank account dry. 

Oh lord, am I actually admitting to all this on a public message board.  Yes, I am because I feel right now that it's a good thing for me to share my own personal shame.   Plus, it gives other people an idea to where I was at.   This was a very dark emotional period of time for me.  Ugly period with lots of ugly not so good thoughts.  Type of stuff that most people don't feel comfortable talking about.   I feel fortunate that this period was not the end of my life actually.   I spent another 10-12 monthes totally away from the bars, drinking and people who drank.   I needed to do this as part of cleaning up my own act.  I was angry, mad and very ashamed at myself for what I had done.  Being ashamed of ones own actions can be rather difficult to share with other people.

Now, it's only been in the last 7-8 monthes that I have felt comfortable drinking again on a social level.   I'm not out every  drinking to get drunk and spending a lot of money.  I can go out and have a few drinks without the desire to get fucked up wasted.   For the longest time, I questioned if I had the control to simply go back to social drinking again or not.

Like I said, being ashamed of ones own actions can be difficult to share with other people.

Now to be brutally honest, I never shared any of this with the girl I have been seeing.  Why, because I was ashamed of it.  However, when her and I have been together I myself found myself starting to drink a little too much as well.   Seeing her get wasted and trashed well frankly was not sitting well with my own mortal drinking sins of life.   I myself was becoming fearful of sliding into Drinking too much.

Drinking has been a source of conflict between her and I.  Yes, she has gotten mean and angry with me while we both we drinking, or she had already been drinking.   Actually, the more I think about things, she felt my frustrations towards her while she was drunk.  If this makes any sense.   Basically, me being upset with her was simply a trigger to the situation.  I was trying to be in control of my own drinking and hers at the same time. 

Part of the fuel to the fire here has been my own internal frustrations and past shame, and not wanting to go back to a bad place I was before in life.

I actually never shared any of this with her, of my own internal battle going on at the time.   I know when I've had more then my fair share though and I don't black out.   Anyways, this is all messed up.  Two people with drinking issues together butting heads over drinking.   I can go days and weeks without having a drink, but just because I can does not mean I don't have the potential to become out of control.   This is the way I have come to look at and view myself.

I've been kind of preoccupied with expressing her drinking problems and not being open about mine with her.  Mainly because I've been in a state of denial hiding my own shame.  If that makes any sense. 

I don't consider myself to be an alcholic, however I could be if I wanted to be.  I think I was dangerously close to becoming one or actually was one for awhile.    I just don't get urges to drink.   I don't feel like I'm addicted to it, I actually can pass up people offering me a drink.   Anyways, this is something I feel I need to explore a little more.   I know I have a lot of shame resulting from my own past alcohol abuse.  This alone is a problem.

A lot of things people posted on this thread, got me to honestly taking a harder and deeper look at things. Thank you.

I thought I'd share all this everything because it devictimizes me here and puts everything in a more well balanced light.

I am actually questioning a few things about how people can constantly seek out and find partners, have shit fail, and them making themselves out to be the victim over and over again.    You know the classic of having a string of done me wrong partners and playing and reliving the role of the victim over and over again.   I've been perhaps walking a very dangerously line here on this one.

Even why it's more important that I totally devictimize myself and be honest about my own issues and problems.

Thanks again everybody for the great responses.  













(in reply to SailingBum)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/20/2008 6:31:09 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline
Sweetie... there is nothing I can add to what has been said here, except thank you for sharing your very personal (and painful) stories.

*hugs*

You know I wish you all the best, and I feel certain that you will ultimately do what is best for YOU.

feel free to get hold of me (you know where to find me *smile*) if ya ever want a friendly ear to rant and rave to :)


*smooches*

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to Owner4SexSlave)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/20/2008 7:53:01 AM   
giveeverything


Posts: 348
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline
This is by and large one of the most profounds things I've ever read.  Full of introspection.  Honest.  Good luck....

(in reply to Owner4SexSlave)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/20/2008 9:55:40 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:


Oh lord, am I actually admitting to all this on a public message board


i still struggle with this thought...not so much here anymore, but when i go to a new board, or when i go to a new place in person...there is a song by Veruca Salt called "Sick As Your Secrets"...i think she knows me...lol...but anyway, i find it a way for "laymen" (for lack of a better word) to understand addiction...and there are these sayings in the program like "you are only as sick as your secrets" and "your defects die in the light of exposure"...sure, there is a chance that someone can use these words we put out here against us...but it is not a secret...i am not hiding it...i admitted it...it wasn't something that was wrenched from the hidey hole in the back of my mind against my will...

i don't know if you are addicted or not, i could tell you the diagnostic criteria, but you can look that up just as well as i can...as for the program (12 step talk coming up), it really comes down to, you have to admit it to yourself...is the pain of change less than the pain of staying the same? in other words, will stopping drinking all together and working the steps be less painful than continuing drinking?  it's a simple program for complicated people...but not easy (they forgot to tell me that part) -end 12 step talk-

anyway...when it comes down to it...still, get help for you...in my non-degreed expert-from-dealing-with-addicts-on-a-daily-basis-for-the-past-two-and-a-half-years opinions....you're not healthy enough to be in a relationship right now...but no major changes...don't move forward, don't move backwards...if she's going to get sober, if you are...just keep the relationship where it is at until you've got some clarity in your life...and i would strongly suggest a program of some sort...support helps greatly...you don't have to do it alone...and i have not met an addict/alcoholic yet who could take suggestions concerning their addiction from their signifigant other, including those in BDSM, D/s, and M/s relationships....they don't even try...

take care...
chelle


_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to Owner4SexSlave)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Negative Pasts, Rocky todays and throwing the "... - 3/20/2008 10:23:33 AM   
Wickad


Posts: 428
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline
(fast reply)

To the OP,

(fast reply)

To the OP,

Your profile says you live in Pennsylvania, ... are you sure you don't live in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada?

The similarities between your girl and my ex-girl are staggering.  I did not grow up in an alcoholic family so my relationship lasted less then 3 months.  I learned that I have a very low tolerance for people in denial.  I also learned you can't fix someone who really believes they aren't broken.

Wickad

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 60
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