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RE: Do you respect a Master who's never owned a slave? - 3/24/2008 8:06:34 AM   
kinkypuppy2


Posts: 345
Joined: 11/4/2007
Status: offline 		Completely agree

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See nic "Kinkypupper" also as "slvseeker" As I cannot reply to any posts or log into collarchat under that name I had to create this profile.

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RE: Do you respect a Master who's never owned a slave? - 3/24/2008 8:54:44 AM   
mastervalentine


Posts: 157
Joined: 3/9/2008
Status: offline 		There are two ways I have seen to look at the arguement, and I will approach them both, if you do not mind my input.

I can agree, first, that to claim the title of Master without having any experience is folly. But having the position over someone isn't enough. One must understand the duty, and the sacrifice of both their position, and of the one who submits to them. I could command a dozen people a year and never face a single moment of sacrifice. Never be given a difficult choice, never have my mettle or the strength of my character tested. What good is calling myself a Master then?

While I could never understand what being a Master means without having been a Master, I believe also in people. We are what we are. Our worth and our true self never really change. They may be revealed or hidden by circumstance and by responses given to that circumstance, but it would take something very, very powerful to ever change our core nature. In this, I can accept someone claiming the title without claiming experience.  When the time comes that they are tested, if they were strong to begin with, they will weather the storm and do it well. If they were weak, then the weakness will be revealed, and I'd be surprised it took that long for the fatal flaw to show itself.

I hope you find these views interesting, and well reasoned. Please, debate on.

(Edited for typographical error)

< Message edited by mastervalentine -- 3/24/2008 9:00:31 AM >

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RE: Do you respect a Master who's never owned a slave? - 3/24/2008 8:58:06 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I appreciate all of the contributions, even those who think it might be silly to argue about semantics.

I actually think I'm pretty liberal with accepting the term as others apply it to themselves.  Current dynamic, past dynamic, proficient at skill.  I wouldn't dream of arguing any of those, especially since My knowledge of someone pales in comparison to them knowing themselves.  I also understand that other people might have definitions that might be different than My own, and I'm good with that, too.

I believe it was Merc, in one of the responses that illustrates the concept of what I was thinking.  I'm very much on the nature side of the nature verses nurture debate on being wired this way.  I'm very well aware that a person can be a Dominant without ever living the lifestyle, or expressing that in their relationships with other people.  However, being a Master/Mistress is something different.  I'm just the type of person to ask Master of who/what?

Respect might have been the wrong term for the post, and I apologize for that.  Perhaps someone can offer a more relevant term.


_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Do you respect a Master who's never owned a slave? - 3/24/2008 9:05:16 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		I can respect a Master who has never owned a slave, but I cannot respect one who feels it necessary yot tell everyone they meet that they are a Master. Until Angel, I never collared anyone. Until I was in my late 20s, I never actually owned anyone. I had steady partners, who considered themselves mine and mine alone, but it was never quite as serious as to have owned them and been responsible for them on a day to day basis. Not becasue I couldnt have, but becasue I couldnt fit that into my life at that point. That didnt make me less of a Master (or Mistress I suppose in my case) just not an owner.
I find it difficult to have much respect for anyone who feels it neessary to shout their chosen role constantly,treat everyone else they run into as someone unequal becasue of it...
But what they choose to call themsleves doesnt matter. How they present themselves does.

DV


_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

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VampiresLair

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RE: Do you respect a Master who's never owned a slave? - 3/24/2008 9:34:02 AM   
warrenwriter


Posts: 43
Joined: 9/27/2007
Status: offline 		I'd like to point out a logical flaw in the entire argument.

If nobody respects a Master who's never owned a slave, then the Master will never own any slaves because none will want to serve under him.  This will lead to a complete lack of Masters because eventually all who have owned a slave will have died, and there will be too many slaves and no "respected" Masters.

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RE: Do you respect a Master who's never owned a slave? - 3/24/2008 9:40:44 AM   
mastervalentine


Posts: 157
Joined: 3/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warrenwriter

I'd like to point out a logical flaw in the entire argument.

If nobody respects a Master who's never owned a slave, then the Master will never own any slaves because none will want to serve under him.  This will lead to a complete lack of Masters because eventually all who have owned a slave will have died, and there will be too many slaves and no "respected" Masters.

 

(Edited to better clarify my thought process)

I doubt we'll ever have a shortage of Masters, even if we suddenly found ourselves in a room filled with untested individuals, surely there would be enough people willing to take a risk to find out who's worth what. 

< Message edited by mastervalentine -- 3/24/2008 9:49:25 AM >

_____________________________

"If philosophy has taught me any one thing, it is that a rushed action invites disaster." ~MasterValentine

Say not, 'I have found the truth,' but rather, 'I have found a truth.' Kahlil Gibran

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RE: Do you respect a Master who's never owned a slave? - 3/24/2008 9:46:17 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warrenwriter

I'd like to point out a logical flaw in the entire argument.  If nobody respects a Master who's never owned a slave, then the Master will never own any slaves because none will want to serve under him. 


I'm not sure if you're joking or not, so I'll answer this seriously. First, I don't know anyone who chooses a partner based on what other people think of them. Second, there is a line of thinking that one becomes a Master by owning a slave, not by declaring that first and THEN owning a slave.

So I'd say your logical flaw has logical flaws.

I don't respect someone as a leader who has never led.
I don't respect someone as a driver who has never driven.
I don't respect someone as a teacher who has never taught.
I don't respect someone as a doctor who has never treated a patient.

So... I don't hold someone up as an example of a Master who has never [insert list of all the things that I consider a Master to be]. Does it matter in the long run? Nope. And I'll try really hard to keep a straight face when someone says, "Hi, I'm Master Grandpoohbah, and I think I'd like to try out BDSM."

Cali


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RE: Do you respect a Master who's never owned a slave? - 3/24/2008 9:53:11 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warrenwriter
If nobody respects a Master who's never owned a slave, then the Master will never own any slaves because none will want to serve under him. 

To play the semantics game with your own logic...
Many thing a Master does not become more than a Dominant until he has owned a slave or submissive. You can be a respected Dominant and never have owned a slave or submissive of your own. You are waiting for the right connection before owning your first, which I find much more respectable than simply owning for the sake of possessiong someone and getting a new title.
And if one follows the line of reasoning I have... then the Master will become a Master when they meet the right person to become owned property, wether or not they were respected as a Master before that point would not matter.

DV


_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to warrenwriter)
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RE: Do you respect a Master who's never owned a slave? - 3/24/2008 10:04:36 AM   
warrenwriter


Posts: 43
Joined: 9/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I'm not sure if you're joking or not, so I'll answer this seriously.


It was more of a tongue-in-cheek response.  It's like opening a job for someone at an entry-level position that requires 5 years of experience in the field.  The requirements for the position preclude any from applying.

Of course, it's academic-- we know people will follow leaders who have no leadership experience (cough cough Obama cough cough).  That doesn't mean that person would be a bad leader.  It's the same with the posit that you can't respect a Master who hasn't owned slaves.  It doesn't mean the person isn't a good Master.

quote:

Does it matter in the long run? Nope.
  Exactly.  Which is why I find these types of threads infinitely amusing. 

quote:

MasterValentine said:

I doubt we'll ever have a shortage of Masters, even if we suddenly found ourselves in a room filled with untested individuals, surely there would be enough people willing to take a risk to find out who's worth what.


Exactly.  Ask any woman-- would they date someone they didn't respect?  90% would reply "no".  So does the respect of a slaveless Master really matter?  Not in the long run.

Respect derives from their actions with and without a slave.  Cali's Master Grandpoohbah is an excellent example.  Does he come across like an inexperienced jackass, or someone who understands the Top/bottom relationship, at least from a novice level?

Respect ultimately comes from respect, not from previous ownership.  If we don't respect them, it's not just because of a short resume, but from serious personality failings.

(in reply to CalifChick)
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RE: Do you respect a Master who's never owned a slave? - 3/24/2008 10:24:18 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warrenwriter

I'd like to point out a logical flaw in the entire argument.

If nobody respects a Master who's never owned a slave, then the Master will never own any slaves because none will want to serve under him.  This will lead to a complete lack of Masters because eventually all who have owned a slave will have died, and there will be too many slaves and no "respected" Masters.



Yes, I realize that you say the post is tongue in cheek, but it's worth commenting on anyway.  Nobody starts out where they end up.  No one begins a journey at the destination.  I tend to think we start with a foundation and build from there. 


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Do you respect a Master who's never owned a slave? - 3/24/2008 12:11:38 PM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		At OP
Can you disrespect the Master and at the same time respect "the person" ? (talking about the same person her)

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RE: Do you respect a Master who's never owned a slave? - 3/24/2008 12:41:41 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Absolutely, however, I see it as the same as some of the examples that califchick gave above.

I wouldn't consider someone a parent because they watch the neighbor's offspring on the weekend.

I wouldn't consider anyone a physicial who hadn't been to medical school.

I wouldn't consider someone a pilot, just because they read a book about what it's like to fly a plane.

I wouldn't consider someone a chef, just because they enjoy fine food.




_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Justme696)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Do you respect a Master who's never owned a slave? - 3/24/2008 12:44:48 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Absolutely, however, I see it as the same as some of the examples that califchick gave above.

I wouldn't consider someone a parent because they watch the neighbor's offspring on the weekend.

I wouldn't consider anyone a physicial who hadn't been to medical school.

I wouldn't consider someone a pilot, just because they read a book about what it's like to fly a plane.

I wouldn't consider someone a chef, just because they enjoy fine food.


But, I don't require my submissive to have experience.
If you show me by your actions and deeds towards ME, that you have a submissive "heart".
That is all I need to see.
 
I have turned down hundreds of submissives with a lot of experience because they did not
have the qualities that I seek for a long term serious relationship.
I seek SO much more from a person, than how long they have been in this lifestyle.
So as usual, it's too each their own.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

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RE: Do you respect a Master who's never owned a slave? - 3/24/2008 12:48:26 PM   
MissSepphora1


Posts: 669
Joined: 1/11/2008
Status: offline 		I must tell men over and over do not call me Mistress I do not own you.
Call me Miss, or by my given name, but do not call me Mistress.  Even those I have played with, I do not order them to call me Mistress. 
Anyone who calls themselves, or orders others to call them, Mistress or Master is looking for a big time ego boost

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RE: Do you respect a Master who's never owned a slave? - 3/24/2008 12:55:41 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

But, I don't require my submissive to have experience.
If you show me by your actions and deeds towards ME, that you have a submissive "heart".
That is all I need to see.



Hello Mia.  The response to your statement is probably going to open a whole other can of worms here.  The question I asked was very specifically about a Master, which is something different entirely.  Going along those lines, the best parallel I could think of would be that I would see the same terms applying to a slave who has never served.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Do you respect a Master who's never owned a slave? - 3/24/2008 1:44:58 PM   
MasterGreg43


Posts: 79
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Fla, Ga, NY, NJ, MD, VA, now PA
Status: offline 		being a Master is more then owning a slave, a Master is recognized by other Dominant & Master as such, and has owned several slave that is not a wife, or girlfriend, some people think because u top ur girlfriend or wife that is being a Dominant Master that is not merely just kinky or Dominant in bed, u have to take control of a slave total life, every aspect of their being where u are the first and last person a slave thinks about all day long either in the Master presents or not, that will make u one of the true real time Masters not the collaring a slave/sub over the PC or INTERNET, that is just kink, real time is u physically place that collar on a slave neck and take total control of her life surrounding and all, which I relocated all of My slave to one house and govern over them daily even at work which come second to this Master.

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PA Dominant King
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Master of Sweet House of Pleasure & Pain

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RE: Do you respect a Master who's never owned a slave? - 3/24/2008 2:03:31 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		In and of itself, the word "master" means very little to me. Go to the dictionary and there are multiple choices.

Respect is a word who's meaning I value. I respect a person, or not, based upon their deeds, among many other things.

No one needs to slap Master in front of their name to garner my respect. It's going to be ALOT more difficult than that.

Another thing that matters to ME. You can say you've owned, or own, a slave within this context. However, before I am going to give you any credit for respect, I want to meet the slave. I've seen the words and deeds of slaves that would serve a mentally challenged pet rock and call it Master. That is not respect worthy.


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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Do you respect a Master who's never owned a slave? - 3/24/2008 2:08:34 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

In and of itself, the word "master" means very little to me. Go to the dictionary and there are multiple choices.

Respect is a word who's meaning I value. I respect a person, or not, based upon their deeds, among many other things.

No one needs to slap Master in front of their name to garner my respect. It's going to be ALOT more difficult than that.

Another thing that matters to ME. You can say you've owned, or own, a slave within this context. However, before I am going to give you any credit for respect, I want to meet the slave. I've seen the words and deeds of slaves that would serve a mentally challenged pet rock and call it Master. That is not respect worthy.




Now LaT, says what I am trying to say sooo much better.
LaT hit the nail on the head when she said, she wanted to see the slave/slaves you have "owned".  
There are some that as so desperate they would allow anyone to "own" them, and would
call that person "Master".
Just because someone has owned "something" or "somebody" is just not enough for ME.

But, I would like to know what someone needs to DO, in order to "earn" the title of "Master".
Also, who or what are they Master, of? 


< Message edited by MzMia -- 3/24/2008 2:44:46 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Do you respect a Master who's never owned a slave? - 3/24/2008 2:49:47 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		Apologies if I damage the context of your greater post by carving it up here, but I am curious....
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterGreg43

being a Master is more then owning a slave, a Master is recognized by other Dominant & Master as such,.... <snip>

Within my former M/s relationships, I was Master to that particular girl by mutual agreement.  I don't and never have given a rat's arse what other Dominants/Masters think of my personal relationships - it's none of their business and I don't need their validation to define my choices.

quote:

....and has owned several slave that is not a wife, or girlfriend.... <snip>

How many is "several" - there's a minimum? 
 
Do you mean several at once?
 
Why can't a slave be one's g/f or wife, too?  Isn't connection & emotion allowed; that the slave has to be insignificant "meat"?

quote:

....u have to take control of a slave total life, every aspect of their being where u are the first and last person a slave thinks about all day long either in the Master presents or not... <snip>

So a Master has to be a micro-manager, too?  Is not emotional connection (such as lurv) a valid means of ensuring my girl's thoughts are constantly with me?  And (gasp), vice-versa?

quote:

....real time is u physically place that collar on a slave neck and take total control of her life surrounding and all, which I relocated all of My slave to one house and govern over them daily even at work which come second to this Master.

Perhaps not all Masters are so elitist or financially able to relocate their harem under one roof while giving a lesser priority to their source of income.  Mind you, I agree, if I had millions and no r/t responsibilities (like needing a job or worrying about bills etc), I could live the fantasy, too!  Of course that house would probably then hafta be a castle replete with medieval dungeon so my (exteremely few) peers would finally respect me as a Master....
 
Is there anyone here you'd consider to be your peer as a Master?  I'm not fishing for validation; even if I currently owned a slave, I know I wouldn't qualify under your definitions....
 
Focus.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Do you respect a Master who's never owned a slave? - 3/24/2008 4:02:32 PM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		I like Focus's view on things. 

In general, I tend to let everyone I meet start off with a vague sense of respect.  Now, if you keep that amount of respect is an entirely different manner. I don't respect the pompous asses I've met at a munch or two.. the ones that are hardcore lifestyle, they see themselves as Master Fantastic-Pants. They are rude to the waiters, and condescending to the new people. O snap.. you're new, AND you're younger? No way is MF-P going to waste his time talking to you. That's not worthy of my respect, in fact, I kind of want to let the air out of his tires, no matter how many slaves he has.

I do respect Masters/Doms/Tops whatever you'd like, if they are still making the effort to learn. They don't have to be hardcore into the scene stuff, the whole lifestyle bit isn't for everyone. Anyone who assumes they know everything there is to know about something is way off.

I don't know, ego's a huge killer for me.

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 40
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