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Serving & submission - 7/16/2004 5:27:08 PM

darkinshadows

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I have been thinking upon this a while and so was wondering about peoples views on serving Vs. submission. Do people see them as The same?... One existing only because of the other?... Or completely seperate and unlinked? Is it possible to serve without submitting, or is serving something only done once submission has occured?

Personally, I feel that they are completely Individual and stand independant from One another. I would be interested on Others perspectives.

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...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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RE: Serving & submission - 7/16/2004 5:41:39 PM

ScorpioMaster

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Submission is how you submit to your Master or Mistress which is who you are. The serving falls into providing a service to them which shows off the skills you have that they can benefit from. Example I work for my company which means I submit to my employer as a tech and I provide a service to them by doing work. My skills are a tech and I have to use it every day to make them happy for I am working my ass off. Do I do this because it makes me happy because I am serving them? I know that is a lie for we get paid but that is the best example I can come up with.

This is my viewpoint and how I understand it. Kevin

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 2

RE: Serving & submission - 7/16/2004 5:48:50 PM

Voltare

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Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
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I think the short answer, would be the same as BDSM verses D/s. The former is something you do, an activity. The latter is something you are, a componant.

I love to cook, and I'm pretty good at it. I usually put the food on the table, when I have guests - and I LOVE doing it, the looks on their faces when I have a great meal prepared. That's pretty darned close to 'serving' I'd say. After the meal is done, I'll gladly grab a slave by the hair, drag her off, tie her up, and thrash her good. That's an activity as well. The subsequent relationship is a whooolleee other issue, altogether.

Stephan

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RE: Serving & submission - 7/16/2004 6:20:12 PM

pixieunleashed

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Joined: 7/11/2004
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Interesting topic, dark~angel......

The serving vs. submission thing is, now that I look at it, the reason I rejected being called a sub/slave in the first place and instead opted for being called a "bottom". While I submit myself into the control of my Dominant, and while slave did have no limits with my Master, as far as BDSM things were involved, I am not a domestic servant. Quite the opposite in fact, as in real world things, I like being served. I tend to become rebellious and defiant when "ordered" to do mundane things like dishes/cleaning/or cooking, unless it is worked into kinky fun or there is a big fat carrot for me at the end that I get to see.

In my perfect world, submission and serving, would be two separate issues.

Submission, is in my opinion, something pure, where you hand whatever control and power you have over to your Dominant, and allow them to do with you as they will, either within your guidelines or without guidelines depending on the nature of your relationship based on time or situation.

Serving, in my opinion, has nothing to do with submitting. I can serve someone all day, and never submit to their will. Take as example, a waitress, or a maid, or a personal assistant. In relationship settings as well, I can serve whomever as much as they want in day to day things, but never give any control to that person. My favorite example was this old married couple I used to know. The wife always made her husband dinner, did his laundry, kept the house clean, served him coffee, got his drinks for him while he was watching TV etc...but, that man did not so much as spend $5 without consulting his wife, and as far as outside the house work was involved, she was the one making decisions as to which field got plowed next and what was planted.

Serving, also, in being a conscious act that you do have to make a choice about, also falls into the catagory of something being able to be a manipulative act. My mother likes to serve meals to me whenever I go to see her. Her idea, is that if she can feed me, I have to stay long enough to eat the food. (not everbody is like this, but with my mother, I know that this is her motivation).

Submission, is something I don't really have a conscious choice in my immediate reaction to someone. It is in my opinion, something much less likely to be used as a manipulative tool, because of it being more of a "gut" reaction thing. I am either submissive to someone, or I am not. I can't even pretend to be submissive to someone I don't feel that way with, where I can make the conscious effort to serve them.

These are my thoughts, thank you dark~angel for starting this thread

thanks for reading this, have a great day,

pixie

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**please note that I realize that I am just as full of crap as everybody else, feel free to remind me anytime**

If you understand it.......you've missed the point.

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(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 4

RE: Serving & submission - 7/16/2004 7:25:59 PM

tanna

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Joined: 6/29/2004
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Serving vs Submission.. I would think they compliment each other rather than oppose one another. (but that's my opinion)

Service can be found in may forms, just as submission can also take on many forms. The variety of definitions would be like snowflakes, some similar but no two exactly alike. It varies as much as with each individual that would try to explain how it fits with their ideals.

I serve people in my job every day, not only because it is my job but because I want to. I go above and beyond the call of duty to do things for these people, not because I have to, but because it makes me feel good to do so. However, I do not see it as submitting to them. It's just a part of who I am and what I willingly do for others.

Someone else may say that by serving those like I do that I actually am submitting. That may be so by their definition, but not according to how I define it.

Submission without service? I can't see submitting without it being a form of service to another. When I submit to One who has earned trust and respect, then I willingly give all of who I am to that person. I am serving him by getting his coffee in the morning, and also serving him by allowing him to chain me up and flog me.

Ok, my brain hurts now.... Gonna quit before I explode.

tanna

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 5

RE: Serving & submission - 7/16/2004 8:43:31 PM

angelthighhighs

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in my opinion...submission is something my heart and soul does...serving is the action that i do with my body to show it. be it just running his bathwater and making sure the temp is right, making sure his coffee is ready in the morning...or sexually. to put it in simple terms

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Post #: 6

RE: Serving & submission - 7/16/2004 8:44:43 PM

angelthighhighs

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oops sorry clicked too fast..

many can serve...not all can submit nor can you submit to all, but you could serve many

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Post #: 7

RE: Serving & submission - 7/16/2004 8:51:23 PM

anthrosub

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i find this topic fascinating. The way the two terms seem to run together always keeps me thinking. Somewhere else on the board on another subject, someone wrote, "...seeing what he is giving taken away." To me, this describes something about submission that rarely gets discussed. When one is serving, it's a willful act on the part of the servant and the example of a waiter demonstrates this point well. But submission in my view is much more. It seems to start with a willful act but is transformed by the actions of the Dominant into choicelessness (if that's a word).

anthrosub

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(in reply to tanna)

Post #: 8

RE: Serving & submission - 7/17/2004 12:17:32 PM

darkinshadows

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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelthighhighs

oops sorry clicked too fast..

many can serve...not all can submit nor can you submit to all, but you could serve many

Thats a really excellent way to put it ath (I hope thats ok to call You that)

Thanks to all that replied, I have had an interesting time reading them and Its helped me think through this..

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to angelthighhighs)

Post #: 9

RE: Serving & submission - 7/17/2004 12:55:04 PM

kiki blue

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Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
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I can serve anyone if I choose to, with what goes on being decided by me.

I can choose to submit to anyone, though I'm more picky about it:)

I see that submitting to someone includes service, but service to someone doesn't mean you're submittin.g

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Post #: 10

RE: Serving & submission - 7/26/2004 7:12:53 PM

Clay1

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I will mainly post here for the sake of respect. I am a little reluctant to truly answer this question, but i will. Me being a young man, I think about sex an awful lot. The act or thought of serving or submitting to a woman is very sexy to me. I hope I do not offend anyone when i say that it is my nature that stirs up the sexual feelings solely in myself toward women, or what they might tell me to do, etc. But, the mind can overcome the body, period. I believe with enough training, and encouragement with rewards

, that I will be the best possible sub that I can be.

~Clay~

(in reply to kiki blue)

Post #: 11

RE: Serving & submission - 7/27/2004 5:33:39 PM

Sinergy

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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

I will mainly post here for the sake of respect. I am a little reluctant to truly answer this question, but i will.

Welcome to the boards, clay1, and please feel free to express your opinion.

All are welcome here, far as I am concerned.

Sinergy

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David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Clay1)

Post #: 12

RE: Serving & submission - 7/27/2004 6:15:48 PM

Clay1

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Thank you very much, Sinergy!

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 13

RE: Serving & submission - 7/28/2004 10:58:50 PM

newflowers

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Denotatively, serving (service) and submission are completely different.

Serve - Middle English to Middle French from the Latin servitum is the condition of a slave. Servus is the Latin for slave. , servire to be a slave. Within the context of D/s, M/s an apt and interesting etomology.

If we jump ahead a few centuries, the archaic definition - serve is to pay a lover's/suitor's court. I am particularly fond of this archaic definition as when I provide/perform service, it is one of the ways in which I show concern and caring for another, rather like part of a mating dance within the context of an adult relationship, I do *x* as a means of offering myself, of showing that i care or am becoming attached.

My musing must move forward as I am an inhabitant of the 21st century.

Serve - to answer the needs of; to be enough for, to offer courtesy or kindness in a manner that makes a contribution to the welfare of others. And like the waiter/waitress/employee analogies, useful labor that does not produce a commodity. The analogy is how I earn my bread and butter, but is not the motivating factor for service offered in interpersonal relationships.

In offering and performing service, it is my hope that I do answer the needs of the one for whom I make such an offering. In my desire to be found pleasing, it remains my hope that the offering of service is "enough for" the one I have served. Most often, I find that serving and offering service is a blend of these - I wish to be found pleasing, yes, but I wish this because I have/am developing an emotional attachment to the one I serve; I wish that person to be satisfied/content/joyful, therefore I will do *x* as it is the means of showing that I do care for the one being served and not only wish for them to be these - content/satisfied/joyful - but actively seek to make it so.

Submission in the Latin submittere is the act of lowering. This may appear to be connotatively negative, however, if one considers the modern definition - to yield oneself to the authority of another, and, by extension, to surrender, to obey - it is part of the D/s, M/s dynamic. As a submissive, I make a conscious choice to defer (lower) my will and consent to abide by the opinion and authority of another. For me, this is much larger than service as it requires a level of trust and devotion which extend from an emotional attachment on my part and on the part of the one to whom I am submitting. While I have found that others do not need, or even want, the emotional attachment, the level of familiarity and trust I need makes it a requisite part of submission. Being a submissive is an inherent part of my nature and submission, by extension, the mindset and act which allows me to express this particular form of relatedness.

So now that I have gotten completely carried away - I love words - I will stop now.

newflowers

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 14

RE: Serving & submission - 7/29/2004 6:53:49 AM

theroebabe

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Joined: 7/25/2004
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Well i am a service oriented person. I like to please people and do that by being open hearted and giving of my self to me that is service. I like to take care of people my dominant is usually the most important one (next to the dog who cant seem to do anything for himself oy what a man he is lol).

But submission for me is the concious choice to give control over parts of me to another, of course the other has to be pretty special for me to sunmit. The amount of trust that is required is unmeasurable to me so that i know he or she wont abuse it. I am not able to be hand maiden in everything i still expect a dom to be a mature funtioning adult who can do things on their own. So submission to me is not finding someone (sub) so that the dom doesnt have to bend over to pick up something on the floor cause they are too lazy to do it, however the sub and service aspects of my personality would make me want to do it them to make it easier for them to please them.

Roe

_____________________________

Roe

People always ask me why I do these things . . .
It's because I can!

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 15

RE: Serving & submission - 7/29/2004 8:40:57 AM

GreyDragon1952

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Joined: 1/18/2004
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Angel

We all serve in one form or another, so my short answer is no you do not have to be a submissive.

For a submissive to serve can be very different from those that are not submissive, I feel the submissive puts a great deal more of their heart into it, for the joy of seeing their serve enjoyed by others, also for the honor of the owner of said submissive. I’m sure dominants feel their acts of service are vastly more important, but their expectations will be some what different on a personal level.

Grey Dragon

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 16

RE: Serving & submission - 8/2/2004 3:53:18 AM

MistressDREAD

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~٭I agree Mine٭~

quote:

Serving vs Submission.. I would think they compliment each other rather than oppose one another

one can submit to sumthing and never be in a serving mode.
one can serve and never submit to anything.
these are seperate actions but can be combined for a delightful
enjoyment.

(in reply to GreyDragon1952)

Post #: 17

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