What to say to office owner when looking to rent for a dungeon? (Full Version)

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CinnamonBrandy -> What to say to office owner when looking to rent for a dungeon? (3/26/2008 11:06:38 AM)

Hi!  Unfortunately I am at work, so I cannot stay online here to see the answers, but I'll check back later.

I am looking to rent an office for my dungeon and want to know exactly how other Mistresses described their business without freaking out the vanilla owner?  I have said I'm a life coach to potential office owners, but I don't want to be deceiving and want to be open-one day I'm sure they will need to access for repair and I don't want them to be surprised by chains bolted to the walls or whatever.  How to say it without a problem?  I can flat out say it, yes, and then add that it's just role play and nothing illegal will be going on, but I just want experienced insight into this from those who've been there-how did you look for space?  What did you say your business was? etc. 

Thank you in advance!

Mistress Cinnamon

[Mod Note:  email address removed]



MsIncontrol -> RE: What to say to office owner when looking to rent for a dungeon? (3/26/2008 12:53:29 PM)

I do not have experience renting or leasing a location for a pro-dungeon.  However, I have had to find space for a BDSM group, that would include a dungeon and play.  Basically it is very important to be upfront...but also respectful.  Don't start off with a lie...because it will be harder and harder to explain things later and could potentially lead to bigger problem.  If they are wigged out by it....best if they aren't your land lord in the first place.

I would say some of the following:
Adult oriented business
You are going to use the space for artistic expression of sexuality.
Alternative sexuality training/education.
Fetish modeling and/or artistic fetish role playing.



Lynnxz -> RE: What to say to office owner when looking to rent for a dungeon? (3/26/2008 12:57:33 PM)

Nope. Just tell them "I'm a Dominatrix, (this is for pro, right?)  I need something with thick walls, and I'm going to put screws everywhere." It's best just to be honest about it. Most vanilla people have heard of a "Dominatrix" but they might not have heard of all of the other terms. Make sure to tell them it's a legal business, etc etc.... hopefully it is in your state. ^_^



MistresssAria -> RE: What to say to office owner when looking to rent for a dungeon? (3/26/2008 5:52:48 PM)

"I'll give you one free beating a month!............."    ;)



CinnamonBrandy -> RE: What to say to office owner when looking to rent for a dungeon? (3/26/2008 8:29:49 PM)

How do you find out if it's a legal business in your state?  I've looked online at our city's business license section and there's nothing there-obviously-but to call the business dept. or the police seems like I just don't want anyone following up on me.  Of course there are many Domme's out here, and Dom Con LA is coming up, so from what I've gathered just no on the business license, that I file taxes as an independent contractor, cash only business, under my SS# and that's that. 

What about just coming out with it up front on Craigslist? LOL, well, something like "Dominatrix looking for a private office with outdoor access.  Can be a studio apt. or granny house also" under apts or office wanted sections?





Lynnxz -> RE: What to say to office owner when looking to rent for a dungeon? (3/26/2008 8:36:41 PM)

Haha, I asked while I was at the police station thing getting my ABC license. >.> I didn't get a very solid answer tho




undergroundsea -> RE: What to say to office owner when looking to rent for a dungeon? (3/26/2008 8:57:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CinnamonBrandy
What about just coming out with it up front on Craigslist? LOL, well, something like "Dominatrix looking for a private office with outdoor access.  Can be a studio apt. or granny house also" under apts or office wanted sections?


I have some memory of NCSF bulletins where the local authorities used zoning ordinances to shut down a pro domme business in residential areas. So it might be good to look into zoning matters to see if they affect the decision.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresssAria
"I'll give you one free beating a month!............."    ;)


That might lead to frequent rent increases ;-)

Cheers,

Sea



MisPandora -> RE: What to say to office owner when looking to rent for a dungeon? (3/26/2008 10:14:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CinnamonBrandy
I am looking to rent an office for my dungeon and want to know exactly how other Mistresses described their business without freaking out the vanilla owner?  I have said I'm a life coach to potential office owners, but I don't want to be deceiving and want to be open-one day I'm sure they will need to access for repair and I don't want them to be surprised by chains bolted to the walls or whatever.  How to say it without a problem?  I can flat out say it, yes, and then add that it's just role play and nothing illegal will be going on, but I just want experienced insight into this from those who've been there-how did you look for space?  What did you say your business was? etc. 

My biggest suggestion is to NOT LIE.  You are a liability for that property owner, compared to a mundane office -- not only in terms of what you'll be doing to clients on the property, but also in terms of noise and nuisance (people coming and going, traffic in the area.) 

Your best bet is to put feelers out with people you know in the kink community to see if anyone is a landlord or knows of someone who is kink friendly.  I managed to find someone who already had an artist studio in an industrial/mixed use area that traffic would not be suspicious and who kept his eye out for me if someone got nosy.  He did most of the major maintenance on the property, or I brought in someone who was kink-friendly to do the work and he worked out payment with all of us.

You'll also need to communicate clearly your use for whomever provides you liability or renter's insurance.  You at least need a minimum coverage to protect your property should a fire or theft occur.  Folks like Lady J in MA who have endured a fire in her playspace will attest to the need for having your gear well insured.



MisPandora -> RE: What to say to office owner when looking to rent for a dungeon? (3/26/2008 10:23:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CinnamonBrandy

How do you find out if it's a legal business in your state?  I've looked online at our city's business license section and there's nothing there-obviously-but to call the business dept. or the police seems like I just don't want anyone following up on me.  Of course there are many Domme's out here, and Dom Con LA is coming up, so from what I've gathered just no on the business license, that I file taxes as an independent contractor, cash only business, under my SS# and that's that. 

What about just coming out with it up front on Craigslist? LOL, well, something like "Dominatrix looking for a private office with outdoor access.  Can be a studio apt. or granny house also" under apts or office wanted sections?


Let me get this straight.  You're looking to rent a space, want to tell the landlord that you're a life coach and you don't even know whether doing this professionally is legal or illegal? 

*head-desk*

(And I'm hoping the suggestion that you're going to post your need on craigslist was tongue-in-cheek. That's the biggest place for the vice cops to troll and find folks doing illegal stuff.)

My intention is to bring to your attention that you're making it quite obvious that you've not done your homework before trying to set up this business venture.  This is not a smart way to go.  Nor is asking a group of predominantly non-pro individuals, many of whom have a less-than-stellar opinion of the profession, for advice on how to go about hanging out your shingle.

While you're more than welcome here (collarme welcomes all), I honestly think you'd be better served asking these specific questions to some pros in the area where you are to feel out the current climate.  You'd best be able to find pros and folks who'd be willing to hand out advice like this IN a forum dedicated to professionals like Max Fisch (maxfisch.com.)  They might also be able to help point you in the direction of scene-friendly lawyers to make sure you're legally protected and have all of your business plan ducks in a row, so to speak.



petpete -> RE: What to say to office owner when looking to rent for a dungeon? (3/27/2008 2:49:09 AM)

Just tell them that you want to make a horror movie on Your spare time... Ask him if he can make himself available if he wants to as a supportive role.... Tell him he will be blindfolded chained and tested to the max before being approved....



Dnomyar -> RE: What to say to office owner when looking to rent for a dungeon? (3/27/2008 4:49:13 AM)

Like was mentioned above check out the zoning laws. Be prepared to have protesters hanging around. Of course the News media will be there. We have private clubs in the area. You may want to go that route.



CinnamonBrandy -> RE: What to say to office owner when looking to rent for a dungeon? (3/27/2008 8:58:53 AM)

Well, yes, MisPandora, I've asked some Pro Dommes and they say yes, but they still "hide" it under "independent contractor" or "fetish photographer" so that's why I wonder and want to have more than word of mouth on the actual truth.  Trying to do my homework, really!  I am trying to do and be as much about the business as the actual sessions and be professional about this, but the one Domme said she'd been doing this for 14 years but never kept files or records, no business license, just filed as ind. contractor in her SS#, no liability insurance on her dungeon, etc.  And then there's collarme, where I would hope a San Diego area, or even California Domme, could give me the whole deal in a nutshell.  I appreciate the input and answers, even the funny or sarcastic ones-that's what makes us family here-but I was hoping for someone to just lay it out without me having to call the police, like Lynnxz did-to no avail on getting an answer from them either!



Dnomyar -> RE: What to say to office owner when looking to rent for a dungeon? (3/27/2008 11:39:27 AM)

Op that 14 year Domme is a disaster waiting to happen. To do it legit will be costly. To do it her way will be way more costly in the long run. There will be pitfalls no matter which way you go.



MistressMeltz -> RE: What to say to office owner when looking to rent for a dungeon? (3/27/2008 12:10:44 PM)

i would reccommend buying your own building for this as to maintain your privacy. if this is not possible maybe look into the possiblity of converting an area of your basement into a dungeon



CinnamonBrandy -> RE: What to say to office owner when looking to rent for a dungeon? (3/27/2008 6:19:54 PM)

Just got off the phone with a very kind Goddess who works at Dungeon Servitude and answered all my questions; yes it's legal in San Diego County, each county is different though, yes it's self-employment under SS#, and they even rent dungeon space-woo hoo!

Thank you all for your help and insight, Collar family :)



boytoy4female -> RE: What to say to office owner when looking to rent for a dungeon? (3/27/2008 6:54:18 PM)

Offer to show him his submissive side. Then, take control.....Couldnt ya call it a private exercise studio? You dont plan on putting a big sign on front of his strip mall, I hope. 



Skully7000 -> RE: What to say to office owner when looking to rent for a dungeon? (3/27/2008 7:13:56 PM)

-Someone mentioned it above: NCSF... the National Coalition for Sexual Freedom. Contact them. get as much information as possible.

-Talk to a Lawyer. YES ITS GOING TO COST YOU! unless you can find a lawyer who will trade you his time for play time even then I would suggest not blurring those lines.  

- If I remember correctly (from a NCSF Presentation I attended a few months ago) get the Police involved... make sure they know what you are doing and make sure they understand you know what is legal and Illegal. it is better for them to know about it and pester you then to have them mysteriously find out about you on their own (or worse when the captain reads the sunday paper one morning) then they will just come in and confisgate everything and you are S.O.L.




CinnamonBrandy -> RE: What to say to office owner when looking to rent for a dungeon? (3/28/2008 9:32:00 AM)

Thanks for that helpful info too, Skully.



switchcouple8777 -> RE: What to say to office owner when looking to rent for a dungeon? (4/18/2008 3:55:15 PM)

While I don't personally have any experience in running a professional dungeon, I have worked at one and go to the same one regularly since it's been taken over by new owners. As far as I know, they are listed as a private club. They charge a membership fee and I belive give membership 'cards' to people who wish to play, and charge an additional fee for each visit to the dungeon. Since it's lisenced as something along the lines of a private adult club, they can pretty much do whatever within reason. They also have a very thorough and strick contract that you're required to sign when getting your membership (the first time you go to the dungeon) which covers liability, dos and do nots, etc. Master Cecil runs a tight ship =D They host 'open' nights on the weekend, have a TNG night, a pansexual night, a gay male night.. I believe they still rent the space for pro Dom/mes and subs, etc. Before it was taken over by Master Cecil, it was listed (I believe) as an educational type facility. Pro-Domination/submission Fetish photography, etc (a preformance based fetish troupe was also run out of it), adult roleplaying, BDSM oriented classes, etc. At the time it was called Darkside Studios, so all it seemed to be to the casual eye was a studio of some sort.

Your best bet would be to do your research. Find out zoning laws, laws on adult oriented businesses in your area, etc. Be honest with prospective landlords, but don't freak them out. It'd also be a good idea to check within your local BDSM community to see if anyone knows of any kink friendly landlords, and a kink aware/friendly lawyer would be a good idea to help you work out the details. In any case, the LAST thing you want to do is post on Craigslist. I don't know about your area, but in orlando we have MBI, a vice squad, and they have a tendency to keep track of craigslist postings, etc. Even the Orlando Sentinal (a newspaper) had two reporters/writers arrested for 'promoting prosituition' or something of similar ilk, because they listed strip clubs, pro dungeons, etc. And they HATE anything kink related... And strip clubs. Then again, they aren't too good at their jobs thus far... Epic fail when it comes to actually convicting people. Big money wasters too. =P *looks around shifty eyed for vice*... MEEP! =P

Luv unt Spanx,
Jynxx



chiaThePet -> RE: What to say to office owner when looking to rent for a dungeon? (4/18/2008 6:34:30 PM)

What to say to office owner when looking to rent for a dungeon?

"That purple shag carpet is torturous."

"I'll take it."

chia* (the pet)



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