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Going Pro, need advice - 3/26/2008 2:36:00 PM   
Goddess007


Posts: 36
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline 		I was just wondering how any Dommes handled certain issues when opening their dungeons, especially concerning personal safety and hygiene.  For the second part, obviously a condom can be used on a strap-on, etc., but what about smaller instruments, masks, etc?  It wouldn't seem professional to have each client bring their own case of toys...Thanks!
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RE: Going Pro, need advice - 3/26/2008 2:58:25 PM   
Pyrrsefanie


Posts: 1222
Joined: 9/18/2007
From: NEW HAMPSHAAAAAAH!
Status: offline 		Depending on the instrument/mask, I'd think rubbing alcohol could be used... any metal instruments, of course, can be sterilized in hot water.

(in reply to Goddess007)
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RE: Going Pro, need advice - 3/26/2008 3:12:45 PM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pyrrsefanie

Depending on the instrument/mask, I'd think rubbing alcohol could be used...

Rubbing alcohol doesn't do nearly enough.  It will disinfect and kill some of the weaker organisms, but most microbes won't be affected, and certainly things like hepatitis or MRSA won't be.  You would want to use a germicide like Sani-Cloth HB or Viraguard to wipe down toys or surfaces that cannot be autoclaved.

quote:

any metal instruments, of course, can be sterilized in hot water.

If you want to sterilize metal instruments, you need an autoclave.  Hot water isn't enough.

~stef

< Message edited by stef -- 3/26/2008 3:14:01 PM >

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RE: Going Pro, need advice - 3/26/2008 3:12:55 PM   
MistresssAria


Posts: 165
Joined: 6/17/2007
Status: offline 		ahh........rubbing alcohol doesn't kill diseases, and nothing can be actually sterilized without an ultrasonic cleaner and an autoclave *think at least $2,500*.
For cleaning off surfaces/crosses/benches, you need a hospital-grade disinfectant (Dispatch is probably the best one.....or Envirocide).  These kill HIV/AIDS, hepatitis, etc.........although read the directions - usually they need to sit on a surface & dry for about 10 minutes to fully work.
I'd suggest taking a 1st aid class, a CPR class, and definately a bloodborne pathogens class.


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RE: Going Pro, need advice - 3/26/2008 4:29:07 PM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline 		Echoing what the two above said:  Hospital grade cleaners + ultrasonic/autoclave setup and use entirely disposables for as much as you can.  That, and avoid doing any play that involves things you can't do one or both on.

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RE: Going Pro, need advice - 3/26/2008 6:02:17 PM   
MistressRouge


Posts: 876
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Birmingham West Midlands UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pyrrsefanie

Depending on the instrument/mask, I'd think rubbing alcohol could be used...

Rubbing alcohol doesn't do nearly enough.  It will disinfect and kill some of the weaker organisms, but most microbes won't be affected, and certainly things like hepatitis or MRSA won't be.  You would want to use a germicide like Sani-Cloth HB or Viraguard to wipe down toys or surfaces that cannot be autoclaved.

quote:

any metal instruments, of course, can be sterilized in hot water.

If you want to sterilize metal instruments, you need an autoclave.  Hot water isn't enough.

~stef


Agrees :)

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RE: Going Pro, need advice - 3/26/2008 7:38:32 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresssAria
For cleaning off surfaces/crosses/benches, you need a hospital-grade disinfectant (Dispatch is probably the best one.....or Envirocide). 


A domme visited my place and drank from one of my glasses. Does this stuff also work on cooties?

;-)

I appreciate all the informed posts.

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: Going Pro, need advice - 3/27/2008 10:41:02 AM   
MsSaskia


Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
Status: offline 		My understanding of clean or sterile for dungeon equipment:

How you clean something and how well you can clean it will depend a lot on the material.  Leather, for example, can be cleaned but can't be sterilized:  it's too porous.  If body fluids get on it, how much risk you're putting the next person at depends on the body fluid, the bacteria or virus, and how long-lived that bacteria or virus is.  I know some people that keep floggers as one-person tools because they do genital flogging with them or get blood on them, but that's a luxury pros can't afford, so we disinfect quickly and often.  (There's a great scene at the beginning of Shortbus where a dominatrix is spraying a flogger with disinfectant AS she's using it on someone - freakin hilarious).  Rubber can't go in an autoclave and bleach and alcohol fatigue/deterioriate it, which makes it a little tricky to clean well.  I have some rubber gags and I clean them with disinfectant soap and water or disinfectant wipes or both: I don't want anything too harsh that would irritate the mouth or be respirated.  On vinyl surfaces, like dungeon furniture, disinfectant wipes or Barbicide sprayed on and wiped off with a paper towel. With metal, where you're putting it has something to do with how it's cleaned.  Some fluids will clean metal very well, but if there's residue on the metal and if you're inserting it into an area with moist tissue, that residue can irritate the skin to varying degrees.  I use MadaCide on anything that's going into the body. 

Best of luck and yes, do take a blood born pathogens class.  First Aid and CPR would do you well, too, as Mistress Aria suggested. 

< Message edited by MsSaskia -- 3/27/2008 10:43:12 AM >

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RE: Going Pro, need advice - 3/27/2008 12:42:32 PM   
MistresssAria


Posts: 165
Joined: 6/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresssAria
For cleaning off surfaces/crosses/benches, you need a hospital-grade disinfectant (Dispatch is probably the best one.....or Envirocide). 


A domme visited my place and drank from one of my glasses. Does this stuff also work on cooties?

;-)

I appreciate all the informed posts.

Cheers,

Sea


Dommes never get cooties hun, those are what the subbies have *laughs*  ;)


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RE: Going Pro, need advice - 3/27/2008 4:31:39 PM   
SolangeRichards


Posts: 170
Joined: 5/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

If body fluids get on it, how much risk you're putting the next person at depends on the body fluid, the bacteria or virus, and how long-lived that bacteria or virus is. I know some people that keep floggers as one-person tools because they do genital flogging with them or get blood on them, but that's a luxury pros can't afford, so we disinfect quickly and often.


Yes, but what about back-to-back sessions with a client when you only have one of these floggers?  What assurance does a person have visiting a professional that her tools are completely clean and there is no fear of blood born illness?



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RE: Going Pro, need advice - 3/27/2008 6:13:22 PM   
MsSaskia


Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SolangeRichards

quote:

If body fluids get on it, how much risk you're putting the next person at depends on the body fluid, the bacteria or virus, and how long-lived that bacteria or virus is. I know some people that keep floggers as one-person tools because they do genital flogging with them or get blood on them, but that's a luxury pros can't afford, so we disinfect quickly and often.


Yes, but what about back-to-back sessions with a client when you only have one of these floggers?  What assurance does a person have visiting a professional that her tools are completely clean and there is no fear of blood born illness?


I don't know any professionals with only one flogger, so I can't answer that question. It's quite rare that I draw blood when I'm flogging in a professional session, and I stop to do wound care if I do, but that's not necessarily true of everyone.  There are no assurances of any type with BDSM play, regardless of whether you play with a professional or not.  Asking questions about hygiene and sanitation during scene negotiations is advisable, as is doing some research into the reputation of the person you're considering as a top. 

Speaking of assurances re back-to-back scenes, I was volunteering at a club recently and someone was there doing blood play with an exacto blade.  Just the one.  He used the same exacto blade, probably wiping it down with alcohol between people (I'm guessing, since he was doing fire play with alcohol by way of cleaning the skin), and used it on a few people in a row. The bottoms were all new enough to the scene to have no idea that what he was doing was the height of stupidity and risk.  Some more experienced players saw what he was doing and alerted a DM, but it was too late by then for the bottoms he'd already put at lethal risk. 

I much prefer it when people ask me ahead of time how I sanitize my equipment:  it shows me that they care about themselves and won't play with just anyone. 

< Message edited by MsSaskia -- 3/27/2008 6:15:05 PM >

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RE: Going Pro, need advice - 3/27/2008 8:51:56 PM   
SolangeRichards


Posts: 170
Joined: 5/8/2005
Status: offline 		That Exacto story is disturbing because I'm someone who has occassion to use those things for purposes that the manufacturer advertises them for.  The knife holder is relatively inexpensive so multiple holders are very do-able and the blade packs are very easy on the pocketbook.  No need to save a penny by carving multiple subs with a single blade....

(in reply to MsSaskia)
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RE: Going Pro, need advice - 3/28/2008 12:36:43 AM   
MsSaskia


Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SolangeRichards

That Exacto story is disturbing because I'm someone who has occassion to use those things for purposes that the manufacturer advertises them for.  The knife holder is relatively inexpensive so multiple holders are very do-able and the blade packs are very easy on the pocketbook.  No need to save a penny by carving multiple subs with a single blade....


I use them (exacto blades) for kirigami (folded, cut paper).  They get dull so fast.  Skin's got to dull them faster than paper. 

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RE: Going Pro, need advice - 3/28/2008 3:54:49 AM   
TheLaughingDomme


Posts: 48
Joined: 1/20/2008
Status: offline 		I'm not pro, but think it would prudent to treat your enterprise as you would any work environment with potential hazards. Mistress Aria is on the money (no pun) about those courses; you have no idea what that person's medical condition is or what their present mental state could be. And no matter what, never, never leave them unattended. A few minutes can be a tragic mistake. If you're not familiar with a toy or technique, don't 'wing it'; there are plenty of people willing to teach out there. You would think that's just common sense, but the stories still pop up reularly- (pro & non-pro) people getting hurt because they weren't responsible.  The safety angle encompasses so many areas, from cleaning up to personal safety to legal issues. Knowledge is power.

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RE: Going Pro, need advice - 3/28/2008 5:42:31 AM   
SolangeRichards


Posts: 170
Joined: 5/8/2005
Status: offline 		That is sound advice.

In January of 2006, a professional dominatrix in the Boston area was acquitted for manslaughter concerning the alledged death of one of her clients.

According to police, the customer suffered a fatal heart attack while strapped to what was referred to as a "medeval device".  The dominatrix, they say, gave no first aid and refused to call an ambulance.  The authorities claim this was done to conceal her business from the police.  They maintain that the dominatrix and her boyfriend then dismembered the corpse and disposed of the remains in a restaurant dumpster in Maine.  The body has never been found and absent the body and a confession the dominatrix was acquitted.  Her boyfriend fled the country and remains at large...

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RE: Going Pro, need advice - 3/28/2008 7:10:52 AM   
TheLaughingDomme


Posts: 48
Joined: 1/20/2008
Status: offline 		Being in a very similar field is exactly why I brought it up. Several stories never make the headlines, but when they do, it just adds fuel to the fire of the hypocritical, close-minded naysayers. Accidents do happen in life, but so many times these are situations that could be avoided with a bit more responsibility and a dose of common sense!

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RE: Going Pro, need advice - 3/28/2008 12:19:33 PM   
MsSaskia


Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
Status: offline 		Re personal safety - if someone's got alcohol on their breath or their behavior seems sketchy, get them out of their quickly and quietly.  Fake a headache or diarrhea or something.  Give them their money back if it's still early.   I'm pressed for time at the moment or would write more re red flags.

Otherwise,  make friends with escorts and dommes in your area.  If there are escort boards for your area, chances are the escorts have one of their own where they share info on bad clients.  If you're fresh meat in your field, there are clients who'll target you because they've already become known to the established pros who won't take their calls or emails or see them, and they'll be looking for the newbie to play their nonconsensual games with. 

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RE: Going Pro, need advice - 4/1/2008 11:27:43 AM   
Goddess007


Posts: 36
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks so much for all the great advice!!!

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RE: Going Pro, need advice - 4/1/2008 11:49:35 AM   
MistressVnus


Posts: 1036
Joined: 1/4/2008
From: Central Florida
Status: offline
quote:

In January of 2006


That incident actually occured in July of 2000.  Eight years ago.  OLD news.  She was acquitted in 2006. 


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RE: Going Pro, need advice - 9/29/2008 5:28:42 PM   
SimplyScott


Posts: 1
Joined: 9/5/2008
Status: offline 		I would love to get some client time with Goddess...

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