RE: those damn illegals

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MissMorrigan -> RE: those damn illegals (3/30/2008 9:56:19 AM)
Wouldn't you agree that it entirely depends on the crime committed as to whether people would be 'championing' the cause of the convicted parent to be reunited with their children. I, personally, find it abhorrent that a mother is separated from her child during incarceration, however, what other options are there. While I have been a member of CM for a number of years, it is only in recent months that I have really participated in the boards, so care to show me a link that supports your comment, Popeye? Enforcing laws is not optional, agreed. Justice shouldn't be either. quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 You know, it's funny, if an American parent is convicted of a crime you never hear people protestring for (them) to be let go so that they won't be "seperated from their children." I wonder why that is? Enforcing our laws is not "optional".

popeye1250 -> RE: those damn illegals (3/30/2008 10:17:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan Wouldn't you agree that it entirely depends on the crime committed as to whether people would be 'championing' the cause of the convicted parent to be reunited with their children. I, personally, find it abhorrent that a mother is separated from her child during incarceration, however, what other options are there. While I have been a member of CM for a number of years, it is only in recent months that I have really participated in the boards, so care to show me a link that supports your comment, Popeye? Enforcing laws is not optional, agreed. Justice shouldn't be either. quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 You know, it's funny, if an American parent is convicted of a crime you never hear people protestring for (them) to be let go so that they won't be "seperated from their children." I wonder why that is? Enforcing our laws is not "optional". MissMorrigan, my anger lays with my government. Had they been doing their job all along like they should have been doing we wouldn't be having these problems, would we? They've been hearing from me and tens of millions of the voters and I'm going to take it up a few notches. When I say that enforcing our laws is not optional I'm referring to some people in government who (seem to think) that they can "cherry pick" which laws "they" want to enforce. As for "links" these are my opinions. Do I need a "link" to express my opinions as an American Citizen? Maybe they do in G.B. but we don't here. Why aren't these people clammering to get into Russia? Russia's population is on the decrease, they need immigration, the U.S. does not. I don't see how making beds and cleaning toilets "contributes" to "the economy", the only thing it does is contributes to some guy's bottom line who hires illegal aliens. (a Federal Felony) And of course people like that are, "passing along the savings to the consumer", right? (Sure they are!) I'd rather pay another $10 per night for a room that was cleaned by an American at livable wages. The pure, unadulterated GREED by homebuilders in this area is manifested in what they drive now. No more Cadillacs or Mercedes Benz's for them! Now they drive Bentleys and Maybacks.

MissMorrigan -> RE: those damn illegals (3/30/2008 10:29:30 AM)
Popeye, of course I understand your frustration and anger. The loopholes/flaws in our respective countries is egregious. I think the overall consensus of this thread is that we want to see an end to the mismanagement of immigration issues. Politicians/people in authority have always abused their positions of power, however, don't you think that having a blanket law applicable to a minority group also has the potential to create injustices b/c all the while those directives are enforced, it disallows cases which require scrutiny on an individual basis. quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 MissMorrigan, my anger lays with my government. Had they been doing their job all along like they should have been doing we wouldn't be having these problems, would we? They've been hearing from me and tens of millions of the voters and I'm going to take it up a few notches. When I say that enforcing our laws is not optional I'm referring to some people in government who (seem to think) that they can "cherry pick" which laws "they" want to enforce. As for "links" these are my opinions. Do I need a "link" to express my opinions as an American Citizen? Maybe they do in G.B. but we don't here.

thompsonx -> RE: those damn illegals (3/30/2008 10:31:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 When I say that enforcing our laws is not optional I'm referring to some people in government who (seem to think) that they can "cherry pick" which laws "they" want to enforce. popeye: You do not seem to have any problem with "cherry picking" the laws you want enforced. You are on record advocating Assault,Battery,Arson and Perjury...yet you constantly comment on the illegality of illegal immigration...why the disconnect? Is there one set of laws for popeye and another set of laws for everyone else? thompson

thompsonx -> RE: those damn illegals (3/30/2008 10:39:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 I don't recall anyone suggesting his point (or for that matter, any more than 1% of his posts are) rational, use any known level of logic or common sense, or for that matter, appear to be the expressions of anyone with an IQ above a kumquat. Just that they're honest and consistent. LOLOL, I love it when people do that! popeye: Your candor is to be commended. thompson

PrimeVector -> RE: those damn illegals (3/30/2008 10:47:09 AM)
I agreed somewhat with what satyrne07 although I don't think the land-give-away would work with the population and complete ownership of all lands we have now. One of the basic issues to this, besides the incredible lack of border control of course, is the 14th Amendment, which someone mentioned earlier. If the 14th Amendment was repealed or modified to allow US citizenship ONLY TO FULLY NATURALIZED AND 100% LEGAL immigrants, rather than anyone who can step, ride, run or crawl across the border for even a day to pop out a new "U.S. Citizen", aka "Anchor Baby", then this issue would be NON-EXISTANT. There seems to be a lot of opinion and high-emotion on this subject here... what I have heard from the LEGAL IMMIGRANTS that I know personally, is that they are very very upset and resentful of any so-called "amnesty" to illegal migrants, since it was a difficult process to become a legal citizen. Their feeling is that why should everyone not have to jump through all hoops they had to? Finally, I wish to reply to someone who mentioned an impassable fence between the U.S. and Canada to keep out all the American workers there... in my industry it is very very difficult for Americans to get any sort of work permit for Canada, yet many Canadians are here working all the time. I know many of these guys by name... and they DO have legal work permits. They are not living here, just coming over the border for a week or two at a time to work. Let me tell you: that would be flat out impossible for me to do (legally) thanks to Canadian government policies, although I would love to be able to work up in Vancouver or Victoria on various projects. It's all very convoluted, but so is life.

popeye1250 -> RE: those damn illegals (3/30/2008 10:47:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan Popeye, of course I understand your frustration and anger. The loopholes/flaws in our respective countries is egregious. I think the overall consensus of this thread is that we want to see an end to the mismanagement of immigration issues. Politicians/people in authority have always abused their positions of power, however, don't you think that having a blanket law applicable to a minority group also has the potential to create injustices b/c all the while those directives are enforced, it disallows cases which require scrutiny on an individual basis. quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 MissMorrigan, my anger lays with my government. Had they been doing their job all along like they should have been doing we wouldn't be having these problems, would we? They've been hearing from me and tens of millions of the voters and I'm going to take it up a few notches. When I say that enforcing our laws is not optional I'm referring to some people in government who (seem to think) that they can "cherry pick" which laws "they" want to enforce. As for "links" these are my opinions. Do I need a "link" to express my opinions as an American Citizen? Maybe they do in G.B. but we don't here. MissMorrigan, now illegal aliens are a "minority group?" The thing is that it's not my problem that people in foreign countries have it tough. If that's the case then they or their governments need to change. It's not my job as a U.S. Citizen to be providing foreign nationals with jobs, medical care, housing or anything else either in the U.S. or in their countries. Their "reasons" for sneaking into my country are not important. It is a federal felony to enter the U.S. other than through a legal port of entry or to overstay a visa.

domahpet -> RE: those damn illegals (3/30/2008 10:51:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne the point im trying to make is.......this woman also continues to have babies, never worked, was obviously mentally ill, got food stamps, ssi, welfare, and who knows what else. she put no effort whatsoever into doing anything for her kids, except birthing them. we also helped her when we could with hand me downs, but there was no outcry from the school when her children were taken away....it was more a sigh or relief for we knew those children were maybe going to have a chance to know love and tenderness in their lives before it was too late. i havent looked at your profile so i dont know where you live. but here in cali, i mean CA, youre not allowed to have ssi and welfare (food stamps) at the same time. i have a severly disabled daughter and had to do all that paperwork twice when she was a baby. each department made me apply at the other to see where she was most qualified for medical benefits.

MissMorrigan -> RE: those damn illegals (3/30/2008 10:58:31 AM)
It seems there's a misdirection of anger there, Popeye. Children that are brought illegally into the US/UK by their parents aren't sneaking in, they have no choice in the matter, I'm sure you'll agree. We're all aware of the legalities, but as it's been pointed out, frequently throughout this thread, those legalities are being used against those who were raised in our respective countries and I cannot see it an act of 'justice' by then imposing such laws. There's a huge distinction between those who enter a country illegally than those who were raised there by parents that flouted the laws. "Tough shit" really doesn't cut it. As for a citizen providing houseing/medical care, etc... that's rather a moot point especially when such people have been contributing to the economy in any case. As for the 'minority group' comment. Any group that differs from the main is considered a 'minority group'. quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 MissMorrigan, now illegal aliens are a "minority group?" The thing is that it's not my problem that people in foreign countries have it tough. If that's the case then they or their governments need to change. It's not my job as a U.S. Citizen to be providing foreign nationals with jobs, medical care, housing or anything else either in the U.S. or in their countries. Their "reasons" for sneaking into my country are not important. It is a federal felony to enter the U.S. other than through a legal port of entry or to overstay a visa.

popeye1250 -> RE: those damn illegals (3/30/2008 11:16:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan It seems there's a misdirection of anger there, Popeye. Children that are brought illegally into the US/UK by their parents aren't sneaking in, they have no choice in the matter, I'm sure you'll agree. We're all aware of the legalities, but as it's been pointed out, frequently throughout this thread, those legalities are being used against those who were raised in our respective countries and I cannot see it an act of 'justice' by then imposing such laws. There's a huge distinction between those who enter a country illegally than those who were raised there by parents that flouted the laws. "Tough shit" really doesn't cut it. As for a citizen providing houseing/medical care, etc... that's rather a moot point especially when such people have been contributing to the economy in any case. As for the 'minority group' comment. Any group that differs from the main is considered a 'minority group'. quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 MissMorrigan, now illegal aliens are a "minority group?" The thing is that it's not my problem that people in foreign countries have it tough. If that's the case then they or their governments need to change. It's not my job as a U.S. Citizen to be providing foreign nationals with jobs, medical care, housing or anything else either in the U.S. or in their countries. Their "reasons" for sneaking into my country are not important. It is a federal felony to enter the U.S. other than through a legal port of entry or to overstay a visa. Well, I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

thompsonx -> RE: those damn illegals (3/30/2008 11:25:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 It is a federal felony to enter the U.S. other than through a legal port of entry or to overstay a visa. popeye: Which federal felony would that be? Have you got a cite of the actual law and what the level and penalties are? thompson

cjan -> RE: those damn illegals (3/30/2008 11:57:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: cjan popeye, you live in New Hampshire so your laws may be different up there. But, as I said in an earlier post, "sodomy" which is defined as either anal or oral sex is still illegal in many, if not most states, but neverthe less, practiced by many people quote: popeye: Enforcing our laws is not "optional". By your standard, without cherry picking, should those folks be prosecuted and face the resultant penalties ? Cjan, I think you're missing the point, it's our party and they're not invited. popeye, I'm afraid I'm gonna have to hold your feet to the fire on this. Given your previous statement that " enforcing our laws is not an option", is it ok, from your point of view, for U.S. citizens to break U.S. laws ( as in the sex laws I mentioned) but not ok for non-citizens to disregard laws that don't suit them? Please just answer the question, sir. As far as EPGAH's comment about breaking sex laws and illegal immigration laws being "different"( citing tax payer issues, blah, blah, etc.) is concerned, the same question applies. Is it ok or not for some people to break U.S. laws when those laws don't suit them? Or does the law and order attitude apply only to illegal aliens and others whose views we may not share ? Simple question, no ?

kittinSol -> RE: those damn illegals (3/30/2008 1:43:15 PM)
Your post was out of order - my response that referenced the United States constitution was reasonnably worded and on topic, a predictable reply to the opinion that "children of illegals [sic] should not become US citizens". The public lynching of this woman's life and morality, on the other hand, is unwarranted. I suggest you take a leaf out of your own book and think about the opposing view; I certainly do not need a morality lesson from you, or from anybody else on these boards. A bon entendeur, salut.

Smith117 -> RE: those damn illegals (3/30/2008 1:44:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cjan I take your point and am not arguing it at all. However, along these lines, I remember a chat I once had with my father regarding my "nationality". I was born in Germany from Lithuanian parents and came to this country at the age of 2 with my parents and sister where we all, eventually became "naturalized" U.S. citizens. So, I asked my pops, "what nationality am I? American, German or Lithuanian"? His response was to ask me "if a calf is born in a chicken coop, does that make it a chicken"? That's an interesting counter-point to the citizen vs. non-citizen arguement. I wonder what some of those illegals would say to that.

colouredin -> RE: those damn illegals (3/30/2008 1:54:23 PM)
Its a sad world where there are 15 pages of rows about who belongs to what plot of land. A person born in a thrid world country is likely to have a worse quality of life than someone born in the western world, maybe the problem isnt citizenship laws maybe the problem is more to do with the differance between countries and how stupidly pointles that is. And does it really matter? Here (in England) people bitch and moan that we are loose our jobs to immigrants, we seem to assume all immigrants are illegal which they arent and the ones that are? they are getting killed on beaches. Immigrants largely take the jobs that we cant be arsed to do for less money than we would ask for, maybe if we all stop being such greedy fuckers so preoccupied with what we have the world would be a nicer place, i know its a pipedream but im young and idealistic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEOkxRLzBf0

Smith117 -> RE: those damn illegals (3/30/2008 1:55:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan It seems there's a misdirection of anger there, Popeye. Children that are brought illegally into the US/UK by their parents aren't sneaking in, they have no choice in the matter, I'm sure you'll agree. We're all aware of the legalities, but as it's been pointed out, frequently throughout this thread, those legalities are being used against those who were raised in our respective countries and I cannot see it an act of 'justice' by then imposing such laws. There's a huge distinction between those who enter a country illegally than those who were raised there by parents that flouted the laws. "Tough shit" really doesn't cut it. As for a citizen providing houseing/medical care, etc... that's rather a moot point especially when such people have been contributing to the economy in any case. As for the 'minority group' comment. Any group that differs from the main is considered a 'minority group'. The misdirection comes when you think that it matters that she was brought here. It doesn't. She may have been brought here, but it's a safe bet that at some point, she learned she wasn't here legally. And as soon as she was old enough to start making her own choices, she CHOSE to remain and she CHOSE to do so illegally. She could have done any number of things upon turning 18, but her choice was to remain in a country where she had no legal status. Her further choice was to have 8 little anchor babies. Now we're supposed to feel sorry that she CHOOSES not to take them with her. I'm sorry. I don't. Actually scratch that....I'm not sorry either.

Smith117 -> RE: those damn illegals (3/30/2008 1:58:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cjan popeye, I'm afraid I'm gonna have to hold your feet to the fire on this. Given your previous statement that " enforcing our laws is not an option", is it ok, from your point of view, for U.S. citizens to break U.S. laws ( as in the sex laws I mentioned) but not ok for non-citizens to disregard laws that don't suit them? Please just answer the question, sir. As far as EPGAH's comment about breaking sex laws and illegal immigration laws being "different"( citing tax payer issues, blah, blah, etc.) is concerned, the same question applies. Is it ok or not for some people to break U.S. laws when those laws don't suit them? Or does the law and order attitude apply only to illegal aliens and others whose views we may not share ? Simple question, no ? There's a huge difference in illegal sex laws vs. immigration. Illegal sex laws have already been ruled unconstitutional. Therefore, the point is moot. Even if they hadn't. It is up to the state to prove such sex even occurs, as most sex occurs behind closed doors. Furthermore, even if so called "illegal sex" is a crime, it is a victimless crime, meaning two consenting adults in their own home may do as they wish. Illegal immigration is not a victimless crime. It strains the economy everyday and moreso each day.

popeye1250 -> RE: those damn illegals (3/30/2008 2:26:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Smith117 quote: ORIGINAL: cjan popeye, I'm afraid I'm gonna have to hold your feet to the fire on this. Given your previous statement that " enforcing our laws is not an option", is it ok, from your point of view, for U.S. citizens to break U.S. laws ( as in the sex laws I mentioned) but not ok for non-citizens to disregard laws that don't suit them? Please just answer the question, sir. As far as EPGAH's comment about breaking sex laws and illegal immigration laws being "different"( citing tax payer issues, blah, blah, etc.) is concerned, the same question applies. Is it ok or not for some people to break U.S. laws when those laws don't suit them? Or does the law and order attitude apply only to illegal aliens and others whose views we may not share ? Simple question, no ? There's a huge difference in illegal sex laws vs. immigration. Illegal sex laws have already been ruled unconstitutional. Therefore, the point is moot. Even if they hadn't. It is up to the state to prove such sex even occurs, as most sex occurs behind closed doors. Furthermore, even if so called "illegal sex" is a crime, it is a victimless crime, meaning two consenting adults in their own home may do as they wish. Illegal immigration is not a victimless crime. It strains the economy everyday and moreso each day. How they "got here" is totally irrelevant. I don't care if their parents smuggled them in or they payed a smuggler, I just don't want them here. I don't care if Santa Claus brought them in. I don't know about anyone else on this board but I don't go through life assuming other people's problems. This is a case of the country of Mexico and it's people mostly as well as other countries trying to turn (their) problems into (our) problem and I'm just not buying into it.

Gemini1766 -> RE: those damn illegals (3/30/2008 2:29:25 PM)
How many of you would be here if this kind of shit were going on 120 years ago? Irish, you would have been turned back. Italian, you would have been turned back. So may of you would have been turned back because of your family's origins. This crap has been going on for over a century. Our country GROWS on immegration.

Smith117 -> RE: those damn illegals (3/30/2008 2:38:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gemini1766 How many of you would be here if this kind of shit were going on 120 years ago? Irish, you would have been turned back. Italian, you would have been turned back. So may of you would have been turned back because of your family's origins. This crap has been going on for over a century. Our country GROWS on immegration. I don't know about you, but my great grandparents came through Ellis island like the rest....LEGALLY.

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