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Altruistic behavior - 3/27/2008 3:57:52 PM

LadyHathor

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this is an offshoot from the selfish/selfless thread in the BDSM topics, almost 90% of the posters said that there is no such thing as an altruistic act--that every act has some selfish aspect to it----

can you say if you stepped in front if a gunman about to shoot a child, that is a selfish act?

Are we so self centered that we do NOTHING for the sake of doing it? Is every act based on some selfish need??

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RE: Altruistic behavior - 3/27/2008 4:14:58 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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I happen to believe there are some altruistic acts, but they are few and far between. Let's remember that suicide bombers believe they are being altruistic.

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RE: Altruistic behavior - 3/27/2008 4:19:18 PM

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Altruism does indeed exist, but as LA said, it certainly isn't as wide-spread as self-centered acts (not meaning that all selfishness is bad, by the way).

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RE: Altruistic behavior - 3/27/2008 4:28:49 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHathor
can you say if you stepped in front if a gunman about to shoot a child, that is a selfish act?

In a sense....yes.

Desire begets choice begets action. The deliberate act speaks to a deliberate choice, which may be argued to indicate a particular desire. Even if one articulates the desire to step in front of a gun as "I want to protect that child," that is still a desire, it is still a focus on "self". If all acts are thus the culmination of desire, all acts are thus "selfish" in that regard.

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RE: Altruistic behavior - 3/27/2008 4:52:57 PM

MichiganHeadmast

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Ayn Rand's essay The Virtue of Selfishness is worth a read. She identifies the extremes of complete narcissism on the one hand, versus mindless altruism on the other (I added "mindless," as she would have seen that as redundant), and compares that with enlightened self-interest.

Benevolence is a form of behavior that can be informed by enlightened self-interest (as opposed to, say, government coerced entitlements). Seemingly selfless acts like a mother sacrificing her life for a child, or a soldier jumping on a live grenade to save his platoon, can be explained by a refusal to live without the object of one's love (or those he admires).

More difficult is to explain sacrifice for a total stranger. I'll have to go back and re-read to see how she addresses that. I need to fall back on Jesus's words, that "there is no greater love, etc."

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RE: Altruistic behavior - 3/27/2008 5:35:24 PM

satyrne07

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The theory of the "selfish gene" does a pretty good job of accounting for both selfish and selfless (altruistic) behavior. At it's simplest, it points out that a behavior that tends to kill off a genetic line generally loses out to a behavior that tends to continue a genetic line. I know with 100% certainty that not one of my female ancestors going back 10,000 years ever died before having a child, same goes with the males (though none of them could be 100% sure) Point is after a million generations, many of our behaviors may be selfish, but need not be individually selfish, they might in fact be quite altruistic benefitting the good of the group and it's survival.

You give the example of taking a bullet for a child? Who knows for certain that in a moment and without calculation you might not risk your life to save a child? Averaging things out for the last say 7,000 years, average human life expectancy is about 25 yrs. Genetically speaking, you should pretty much have served your purpose and be ready to die after about 17 yrs old. Curious isn't it that altruism seems to increase with age (philanthropy, etc.) A 14 yr. old boy can be pretty selfish. But saving the life of an 8 yr. old (of your species or clan) gives that child a chance to reproduce, presuming you've reached maturity.

The same holds for orphans. A society that left orphans to die if they lost their parents would be wasting many healthy members. So, even though it may mean my own children have somewhat fewer resources, I may still take in a child, or at the least contribute something toward an orphanage. Am I being selfish or altruistic? Likely I'm behaving like my ancestors did, not knowing how many benefited from similar behaviors of others and paving the way for me.

< Message edited by satyrne07 -- 3/27/2008 5:37:34 PM >

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RE: Altruistic behavior - 3/27/2008 10:01:30 PM

Termyn8or

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Is altruistic donating to the ASPCA or some shit ? I think not.

Partially altruistic is helping someone when only you and they know about it.

Totally altruistic is when only you know about it.

I have done it, but I don't make a habit out of it. I can't afford to go wild and frankly, most people just aren't worth it.

And do not limit your thinking to monetary terms.

T

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RE: Altruistic behavior - 3/27/2008 10:55:11 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHathor

this is an offshoot from the selfish/selfless thread in the BDSM topics, almost 90% of the posters said that there is no such thing as an altruistic act--that every act has some selfish aspect to it----

can you say if you stepped in front if a gunman about to shoot a child, that is a selfish act?

Are we so self centered that we do NOTHING for the sake of doing it? Is every act based on some selfish need??

Lady H,

There are plenty of folks who do plenty of nice things for plenty of people. Random acts of kindness certainly can make us feel good about ourselves, but, rarely is that the primary motivation for performing such. If a child from your neighborhood comes to your house and tells you they are hungry, would you feed them? Would your first motivation be "I'm going to feed them because it's going to make me feel good" or would it be "I'm going to feed that child because he's hungry."

I'm betting a lot of folks would answer yea to the latter rather than the former. What I don't get is why there seems to be such an uproar about doing things just because they are nice things to do. Hell, if I ever stop being nice and doing something nice for someone else "just because", you can call me a cold-hearted bitch and rest assured, I doubt I'd like myself very much.

Celeste

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