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Our First Conflict - 10/2/2005 6:33:33 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I know that conflict is part of every relationship. I’d been silently dreading it. We’ve been comfortable and easy, which gave me that nagging thought “it’s just a matter of time.” It started with a trip to the liquor store. He treated me to a bottle of wine “pick out something you like.”

The problem started with my failure to pace myself. I became drunk. My inebriation revealed a sub who attempts to top. Some bratty behavior ensued. Some specifics: complaining about the wooden spoon, complaining about the nipple play, flipping him the finger. My usual demeanor is quiet compliance. The worst…after I was unbound, I stepped past him, smacked his ass and inquired, “how do you like it?” He gave me the you-have-stepped-way-out-of-line look. He patiently explained that since I was drunk, and behaving so out of character, that he would not punish me. He did institute a “lights out” after we had dinner. It was not yet 7pm. (when you have precious little time together, goodnight at 7pm is reprimand enough).

We talked about it this morning. I assured him that it would not happen again. But I still felt badly about my behavior and lack of self-discipline and wanted to offer a conciliatory gesture. I gave him my dread (nipple clamps) for future play.

What I learned from this weekend:

Inebriation = bad
7pm “lights out” = bad
Disappointing my Dominant = very bad

As far as comments:

If you found yourself in a similar circumstance what reprimand/punishment would you consider?

Did I offer enough in conciliation?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Our First Conflict - 10/2/2005 6:40:26 PM   
perfection20005


Posts: 419
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline 		We all have our bad moments, and that was one of yours. Hopefully you have learned something from your mistakes, and you won't do it again. I am also that way when I get drunk, and thats why I don't drink when I'm with Master. He really wants to get me drunk though and see how I am. He thinks that I would be more submissive, but I keep telling Him that is not the case. I become very loud and tend to do and say things I would normally not do. I have to be the one who is always right! I'm glad you worked it out, and hopefully it won't happen again. It sounds like you learned your lesson.



_____________________________

perfection

"I took one look at Him, and I knew He was my Master."

(in reply to KatyLied)
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RE: Our First Conflict - 10/2/2005 6:41:07 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied
If you found yourself in a similar circumstance what reprimand/punishment would you consider?

I'd wonder why the dom allowed inebriation to that point and continue BEYOND your first complaints at all? It would be obvious to me that things were just beyond anyone's control and better to cut losses. Have a long discussion in the morning when you were sober.
quote:


Did I offer enough in conciliation?

Eh I don't need conciliation, I need understanding and change in behavior.

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Our First Conflict - 10/2/2005 6:42:19 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Perfection, yeah the owner used to say that to me a lot, because I don't drink alcohol at all. I really don't get the push people have over it, why they think it's a big deal to drink or not drink.

(in reply to perfection20005)
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RE: Our First Conflict - 10/2/2005 6:52:50 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I'm going to give you my honest answers, and you may not like them.

If I were in a similar situation, I would not know what reprimand or punishment to consider because I think it's pretty obvious that he doesn't have all the facts. The main question I have is how you got drunk so quickly. And I certainly don't agree with his decision not to punish you because you were obviously drunk. You are responsible for your actions whether you're drunk or not--and if you know you can't control yourself when you're drunk, then you have a responsibility to make sure you never get drunk. It's as simple as that.

The other thing that bothers me about what happened is that even if you both grant that you were drunk and out of control, it's clear that you were expressing some fairly deep emotions that you've kept locked and out of sight. You both have to get to the bottom of them. My sense is that you're conflicted about something, but I don't know you. What matters is that YOU AND HE have to figure it out. Because if you yourself don't know what was going on, you can't possibly be completely honest with him about it.

Finally, I don't think your gesture of conciliation was enough, because it was a way of avoiding communication. Yes, it conveyed that you regret what happened and want to continue to submit to him, but it also conveyed that you're doing everything on your own schedule. The right to use nipple-clamps on you shouldn't be something that he attains because you got drunk and lost control one night.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

If you found yourself in a similar circumstance what reprimand/punishment would you consider?

Did I offer enough in conciliation?



< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 10/2/2005 11:15:00 PM >

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Our First Conflict - 10/2/2005 7:04:59 PM   
perfection20005


Posts: 419
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

Perfection, yeah the owner used to say that to me a lot, because I don't drink alcohol at all. I really don't get the push people have over it, why they think it's a big deal to drink or not drink.


Emerald,
I don't understand it either. I did all of my drinking before I was even 18 years old!! After that I didn't feel the need to act or look stupid anymore, and not being able to remember it. I do enough stupid things without blaming it on being drunk!!


_____________________________

perfection

"I took one look at Him, and I knew He was my Master."

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Our First Conflict - 10/2/2005 7:08:15 PM   
fastlane


Posts: 2159
Joined: 5/26/2005
Status: offline 		hmmm....put the lime in the coconut..you called the Doc and woke him up?

Said Doctor,,is there nothing I can take? you said, doctor, to relieve this belly ache?

Or mental stress, or feelings of Topping your Dom?


My advice..is this...Drink and be merry, but no your limits.
Voice your opinion and a good Dom will listen.
Have fun with your Dom, but don't hit or flip him off...hmmmm, very bad! Topping from the bottom.
Understand that relationships are built stronger from what you experienced and learned along the way.

Lastly...as the Jimmy Buffet and the Coral reefer's song is entitled..."why don't we get drunk and screw."

Don't ever let anyone tell you there is anything wrong with that....Don't beat yourself up...I can do that!

_____________________________

Just because it hurts, doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Our First Conflict - 10/2/2005 7:59:21 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline 		I'm a bit confused, Katylied. Are you saying you were inebriated and he went ahead and did a scene with you?

This brings up red flags for me.

Maybe I misunderstood?
Cin

_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Our First Conflict - 10/2/2005 8:43:10 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

If you found yourself in a similar circumstance what reprimand/punishment would you consider?

Did I offer enough in conciliation?


Did you please him? Are you pleasing him now? If so, your punishment was just...if not...then expect more punishment.

I would think you've had enough punishment when you've learned not to get drunk again.

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Our First Conflict - 10/2/2005 11:12:10 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

The other thing that bothers me about what happened is that even if you both grant that you were drunk and out of control, it's clear that you were expressing some fairly deep emotions that you've kept locked and out of sight. You both have to get to the bottom of them. My sense is that you're conflicted about something, but I don't know you. What matters is that YOU AND HE have to figure it out. Because if you yourself don't know what was going on, you can't possibly be completely honest with him about it.
This makes a lot of sense to me. I've dated a man who was loving, gentle, kind, open minded and obedient when drunk, but a bit of a domineering and conflicted asshole while sober... What to do with that? I told him to get some help and sort out his emotions; he told me all psychiatrists are idiots, and we are no longer together.

I'm not saying I know you or why you misbehaved on this particular occasion, but you bet I would repeat the scene to see what happens next time in terms of showing real/raw emotions and unedditted thoughts. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Our First Conflict - 10/3/2005 3:25:58 AM   
imtempting


Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		I tend to agree with LAM's response.



In my circle of friends and un-written law is not to play while drunk as things can get dangerous.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Our First Conflict - 10/3/2005 6:47:12 AM   
CanisMajor


Posts: 42
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		I think what Lordandmaster said makes a good deal of sense. His last paragraph is particularly cogent.

I know exactly what I would do if my partner did this. She would spend several hours of quiet time with a pen and paper, away from interactions with others and isolated from potential sources of distraction. I'd order her to make notes about and be prepared to discuss certain things at the end of this period. What exactly those things were would depend upon details of the episode that I don't have in your case; but from what you've already said, they would probably include:


  • Why you have been silently dreading a conflict. (My partner is under standing orders to discuss with me anything that she is uncomfortable about or disturbed by, and to do so as soon as she becomes aware of it or at least before it becomes an emotional drama.)
  • Why you failed to pace yourself.
  • Whether you feel you could have and/or should have anticipated any problems from that failure to pace yourself.
  • Your general opinions about drunken behaviour and drunken violence.
  • In what way, exactly, and in great detail, the following are inappropriate behaviour: complaining, flipping the bird, and assaulting the Dom.


I understand the nipple clamp concession was a conciliatory gesture. It would have seemed like bribery to me, and I think my partner would have anticipated that and not made that move. If she had, "why is bribery OK" would have gone on the list above, as well. Regardless of the ultimate contents of the list, at the end of the period she would kneel before my chair while we had a long and serious discussion about her findings. This discussion would definitely have been oriented in part toward discerning what emotions have been kept hidden. A punishment might well follow. I wouldn't punish a person while they were drunk, but I'd not hesitate to do so afterward, and neither does society - drunk drivers do not get off just because they were inebriated.

Vancouver_cinful brings up a good point about scening while drunk - bad idea IMO. But if that "after I was unbound" comment indicates scening was occurring (which is what I thought too), I'd give the Dom the benefit of the doubt here. Depending on circumstances, some people can get drunk with unexpected rapidity, and sometimes it can be hard to tell at first whether someone is three sheets to the wind. I consider it entirely possible for a Dom to start a scene thinking things are normal and coming to a realization a few minutes later that they are not, and calling things off as a result. I base this on my own extensive experiences as an observer of drunken people (I went to college, and didn't touch a drop due to paranoia that I'd end up like my alcoholic father - both were excellent opportunities to observe drunks in action).


_____________________________

The Big Dog

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Our First Conflict - 10/3/2005 7:12:25 AM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline 		In vino, veritas.

(in reply to CanisMajor)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Our First Conflict - 10/3/2005 7:39:23 AM   
HentaiGamerKitty


Posts: 131
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		My Master has a strict rule that he never plays with a sub who has been drinking. Period. Thankfully I am not a drinker (and don't understand why other people feel the need to do so.)

(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Our First Conflict - 10/3/2005 9:29:05 AM   
WickedKev


Posts: 305
Joined: 11/26/2004
Status: offline 		And he didn't do the chili's?????

(in reply to HentaiGamerKitty)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Our First Conflict - 10/3/2005 9:32:28 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

And he didn't do the chili's?????


Um, no. He's probably saving it. I never know what he's gonna pull out of his toy bag.

unknown = good (sort of, sometimes, lol)

(in reply to WickedKev)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Our First Conflict - 10/3/2005 11:19:27 AM   
justatoy2


Posts: 163
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline 		we all make mistakes. Learn from yours and move forward. I personally don't like to see people drink and play. It can get very dangerous. I myself have a very low alcohol threshold. One glass of wine and i am already loopy, so i have to be extra careful. But in my eyes it is ultimately the Doms responsibility....so if you drank too much, i have to question why didn't he stop you when he saw you getting drunk? If you were getting out of hand, the lights out was a perfect solution in my humble opinion. Put her to bed, let her sleep it off, and come back to it in the morning. Very well handled. The bottom line, no pun intended..ha ha, we all make mistakes...don't dwell on the feeling bad about the mistake, rather think of ways to make it better. Good luck.

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Our First Conflict - 10/3/2005 12:50:27 PM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline 		I just got an emailing suggesting my one liner might have been cryptic and less than helpful.

So:

quote:

I meant that if tension and reactivity surface after a few drinks, well then something was there to surface in the first place. The issue isn't the drinking, or whether she is really a sub or not. She says she's a sub - she's a sub. The issue is the tension or confliction - may it be brought out into the light of day. Alcohol can show us our true, unguarded self - but it also leaves us least capable of dealing with what is uncovered.

(in reply to justatoy2)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Our First Conflict - 10/3/2005 1:07:41 PM   
ElektraUkM


Posts: 309
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline 		He bought a bottle of wine, watched while you drank a little too much (presumably he didn't say anything?), used a wooden spoon and nipple clamps on you (yes?), and then didn't like what you said and did?

Was this some kind of experiment on his part?

How come you wanted to drink a little too quickly? Was there something you felt unhappy about and needed to come to the surface? (and did it?)

Just a few thoughts that came to mind when I read your post... hope things are working out OK.

~ Elektra

(in reply to Faramir)
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RE: Our First Conflict - 10/3/2005 1:08:01 PM   
Kasia


Posts: 442
Joined: 6/25/2005
From: The Coast of Adria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

I just got an emailing suggesting my one liner might have been cryptic and less than helpful.


Really?
Someone having troubles with their Latin?

Cryptic indeed

_____________________________

I DO have profile - just lost an S somewhere along the way

Kassia

(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 20
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