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Attention Slaves! - 3/31/2008 5:18:29 AM   
LadyHathor


Posts: 775
Joined: 1/2/2008
Status: offline 		ok, here is where I get a bit hmm befuddled, so I am  more than open to being slapped about a bit--the topic is--- slaves ( male slaves, as My experience doesn't extend further than that, however, I want as always to hear all...)--
 
This is not to dispute the difference/definition/or classification of a slave---it is however to discuss the demeanor of many that I have chatted with---so we chat, we trade some emails, I look to move away from CM to a better form of comunication--then to phone---then nada, nothing, zip-- still appearing on CM though regular as sunshine--and the response?   "you did not take control of me" , "i must feel i am being treated as a slave"-- ( and no lectures please about online versus---if you note, the attempt here is to move to reality)
 
what is with the  " i await you to take control of me"  " i await your command for i'm a slave and must be commanded", "i cannot act without your control"---These are semi intelligent, professional, contributing adults--not alleged wankers---men with life credentials!
 
ok Ladies and Gentleman, we have real life here, or am I missing something, to think some stranger is going to walk in ONLINE and start dictating commands to upset the balance of your life--isn't that ludicrous when you really look at it? Isn't that a cop out a bit?
 
Even someone I know very well who is married and wants to be a slave, real time, in My own area, I will never issue the commands he seeks for it is---what---crazy?  Do you all REALLY expect someone to step in, sight unseen, no relationship and just start making rules? I am not George Bush here people---
 
fantasies aside, you really think that someone with a good life, a good reputation, a good handle on reality is going to do that??
 
Am I missing something?
 


_____________________________

Lady Hathor, I am the Mistress Hathor of Orleans, I am what I am, often to the dismay and discomfort of others.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Attention Slaves! - 3/31/2008 6:07:11 AM   
metalmiss


Posts: 341
Joined: 5/4/2005
From: Croydon, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHathor

Am I missing something?



i don't think so.. Neither can i claim to understand it.. From my side, i've had countless encounters with members of the "kneel bitch" brigade.. The self titled so called 'dominants' who actually seem to believe that as they have declared themselves such they have a right to appear in my message box and demand that i obey them in my real life. It doesn't work like that.. This i would imagine is the flip side of the coin from what You have experienced here.
Perhaps it stems down to a lack of understanding.. lack of patience..
It strikes me that the 'slaves' You are speaking of are maybe far too focused on the fantasy element of the exchange within the potential relationship, without realising the work involved before getting to that point. That the reality is a Dominant has no right to demand anything of a slave until they have reached the point of Owning them, preferences can be discussed, boundaries can be expressed.. but not as orders or demands.
In my experience with my Master, we spoke alot of preferences.. For example i was told that He would prefer me to wear a skirt for meeting Him.. That was not something He was demanding.. simply indicating a preference. When i came to Him i was wearing a skirt as He had requested, but again that was not following orders, just indicating my desire to be pleasing to Him.
i guess there are people out there who expect to be able to bump into a person and immediately find exactly what they were searching for within the first few emails or phone calls. But again, they don't realise that isn't realistic at all. It takes time & patience to get to the point of giving or taking control.


_____________________________

"The longing to serve, to submit, to abandon oneself sexually, emotionally, and physically makes one a slave either to a Man, a Woman or to God. Submission to that passion is divine degradation." - Dorothy C. Hayden

Owned by RavenMuse

(in reply to LadyHathor)
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RE: Attention Slaves! - 3/31/2008 6:20:07 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		metalmiss. I like your preferences verse demanding. Preferences is the route that I take. I don't have the personality that would put up with demands. It might not equate Dom wise with some people but I can get my point across. .

(in reply to metalmiss)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Attention Slaves! - 3/31/2008 6:33:44 AM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		They're just not feeling it. Some people have that chemistry almost from the start, some can find that chemistry after a certain amount of time, some just don't have it with you at all. But, it does take a bit of time and effort to find out if it's even there.
Look at it as them doing you a favor; they have moved on to give you the chance to find one that is better for you.
When I was looking, I could sense dominance from some I chatted with, even through a "How are you doing today?"
Others would just have me giggling with their pseudo dominance.
I don't think it's because any of them were 'actually' more 'dominant' than another, just...
I "felt it" with some, and not with others.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Attention Slaves! - 3/31/2008 6:34:17 AM   
metalmiss


Posts: 341
Joined: 5/4/2005
From: Croydon, UK
Status: offline 		As My girl pointed out I don't make 'demands' until I Own a girl. Somethings I state as prefferences and others I set as requirements to things progressing but in both cases, the choise to comply is theirs as I have no RIGHT to excpect compliance until they are Mine. I can set out the terms by which I am willing to continue, but not simply tell them they WILL do something.

Also with the setting out prefferences it means I get to see if the girl is actualy interested enough to be making a real effort. Words can be cheap, actions speak louder and in this case the girl taking notice of those stated preferences and attempting to be pleasing, even though there is no 'demand' is something I see as a good sign.

If the apparent slaves that Lady H was refering to are so wrapped up in that fantasy of being ordered around rather than honestly seeking to please by listening to and acting on those preferences, Personaly I think they have saved Her some time by outing themselves as fantasy bunnies who wanted Her to jump through hoops and do things THEIR way..... and I know Lady H well enough to know they are barking up the wrong tree expecting that Lady to jump through hoops

The time for orders and demands comes once submission occurs, not before.


_____________________________

"The longing to serve, to submit, to abandon oneself sexually, emotionally, and physically makes one a slave either to a Man, a Woman or to God. Submission to that passion is divine degradation." - Dorothy C. Hayden

Owned by RavenMuse

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Attention Slaves! - 3/31/2008 6:36:19 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		Gah.... that was of course Me... not her. Sometimes changing over on the other side of the site doesn't change over this side. Caught out again! 

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to metalmiss)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Attention Slaves! - 3/31/2008 6:42:24 AM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		*lol* Yeah, I love it when I make a post obviously by a girl (me) and LeatherMasterKY's (HoneyMaster) name comes up. He has several post here, and (I think) only one was actually, really Him.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to RavenMuse)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Attention Slaves! - 3/31/2008 8:02:41 AM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: metalmiss

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHathor

Am I missing something?



i don't think so.. Neither can i claim to understand it.. From my side, i've had countless encounters with members of the "kneel bitch" brigade.. The self titled so called 'dominants' who actually seem to believe that as they have declared themselves such they have a right to appear in my message box and demand that i obey them in my real life. It doesn't work like that.. This i would imagine is the flip side of the coin from what You have experienced here.
Perhaps it stems down to a lack of understanding.. lack of patience..
It strikes me that the 'slaves' You are speaking of are maybe far too focused on the fantasy element of the exchange within the potential relationship, without realising the work involved before getting to that point. That the reality is a Dominant has no right to demand anything of a slave until they have reached the point of Owning them, preferences can be discussed, boundaries can be expressed.. but not as orders or demands.
In my experience with my Master, we spoke alot of preferences.. For example i was told that He would prefer me to wear a skirt for meeting Him.. That was not something He was demanding.. simply indicating a preference. When i came to Him i was wearing a skirt as He had requested, but again that was not following orders, just indicating my desire to be pleasing to Him.
i guess there are people out there who expect to be able to bump into a person and immediately find exactly what they were searching for within the first few emails or phone calls. But again, they don't realise that isn't realistic at all. It takes time & patience to get to the point of giving or taking control.



I agree completely with what metalmiss wrote. I'm sure many subs do the same thing, as the OP asserts, but I constantly see dommes commanding subs to submit completely to them, yada yada yada, on first contact.

(in reply to metalmiss)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Attention Slaves! - 3/31/2008 8:31:41 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		I think having the problem you are having is a good sign, you are clearly aware of power dynamics and boundaries.  The problem comes in when you want to find a partner and the pool of potential partners doesn't "get" that how you deal with things is healthy and the way that they want, isn't.

While plenty here on CM might think me to be an arrogant ass, I don't think many would say I am a wimpy, limp wristed, dominant.  However, I am very careful in how I use that power and with whom I allow to see it.  I have found that those who need me to play caveman and throw my power around are people with whom I would not want to be around, even if they are hot as hell.

The people with whom I DO want to partner are ones who are not looking for someone who walks around being a caveman but who want THEIR caveman.  Sort of the corollary to the difference between a slut and MY slut.

I find subtle ways to display my dominance.  I tend to be a bit aloof at parties, I tend to allow people to come to me, I am very formal in my dealings with others, always respectful and polite.  I rarely play casually with others.  It seems to work although I haven't exactly tried out every style but so far, I have had my pick of the most wonderful of partners so either it sucks and my winning personality shine through or it is a great act and masks what an ass I am.

YMMV...

(in reply to hardbodysub)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Attention Slaves! - 3/31/2008 10:11:36 AM   
WalterRego


Posts: 276
Joined: 12/28/2004
Status: offline 		I think you're looking for sub feedback here, rather than the sort of mostly reaffirming support you've been getting so far, so let me take a shot a supplying it.

(At least, the way I used to proceed, since my present Mistress has gone a long way already toward disabusing me of preconceptions and expectations, and instead showing me how to accept and proceed from Her cues, desires and expectations.)

I doubt whether a slave or sub expects at the phone stage for  a Domme to step in and start making rules. But just as you are gauging them for indicia of the sort of submissive qualities you require, they are doing the same. A sub, even in the early stages, likes to feel that "tug" at their soul, that pull on their need to submit and obey. It's not a matter of wanting wank material, but of  feeling that gravitational pull into the will of that particular Domme.

So, yes, they may want some indicia of how you rule, what sorts of things you like to control and in what manner. Do you desire or require protocol while talking to them? If you are at the phone stage, that seems to indicate some initial interest in the sub or slave, so are you beginning at least the process of establishing control and ground rules? Or at least showing what is or will be the ways and things you want? Are you beginning to set patterns? Do you insist that they contact you daily or at certain times?  Talk about the sorts of things you will insist on if you go further with them?  Do you require an early meeting, or instead give the impression that this is going to go along on phone for a long while ? Do you set some small tasks for them. (And even if you haven't decided whether you want them, aren't you interested to see how they react and or perform?) .  Do you take initiative in certain areas? In short, do you project the sort of dominant personality which makes them feel inclined to want to submit to you further?

There are a large number of "Dominants" here whose dominance, when it comes to speaking on the phone, seems to disappear. Obviously many here on both sides of the slash are looking for a relationship which extends beyond the bedroom and fantasy. But it is a mistake, I think, to allow conversations to be merely or entirely standard dating faire.   Also there are a number (mostly I think who do not post) who do seem to "begin" setting the parameters and even "training" before agreeing to a meeting.  Who knows, they may be really less dominant than you and are only following male sub expectations, but they do exist. So in a sense you may be battling the perception and expectations set up by both of those. It's not always easy for a sub to tell  Who's who around here. So we go with the flow and often by the "vibes" being projected.

It's worth mentioning that you say specifically that you are talking about "slaves". I'm a sub, not a slave but it seems quite likely to me that someone who identified as a slave would have even greater expectations of rules and dominance being set even before meeting.

< Message edited by WalterRego -- 3/31/2008 10:14:27 AM >

_____________________________

A person should not choose the form in which he wishes to perform the service, but he should perform it in any manner the opportunity affords. He should be like a vessel into which anything may be poured - wine, milk, or water.
-Abraham Joshua Heschel

(in reply to LadyHathor)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Attention Slaves! - 3/31/2008 10:34:10 AM   
HerLord


Posts: 697
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline 		Walt... My man... You did it again. You found the answer to the question  that was actually asked. Not only that, you made that answer concise, clear and coagulated.(sp)

There is no more to be said by me here... WaterRego said it all. Maybe someone else has more... But what that could be, is beyond me.

_____________________________

"People as a whole think they want to hear the truth, until they hear it." -Stormism

(in reply to WalterRego)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Attention Slaves! - 3/31/2008 10:44:28 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Simple answer for your men there...
"You are not being controlled yet becasue I have not decided if you will be MY slave. I do not want a boy who will be controlled by any and everyone who can give an order. If that is all it takes for you, you are a waste of my time."

I throw a lot of people off that way. I never make demands, I never force. I prefer to make the boys WANT to do something for me, to desire it and crave it. To be treated like a slave to me, you have to be mine and mine alone. Otherwise, youa re nothing but a control-whore looking for anyone who will be willig ot bark a few commands for your amusement.

My 2 cents
DV


_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to HerLord)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Attention Slaves! - 3/31/2008 10:53:23 AM   
HerLord


Posts: 697
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline 		DV... You too are being added to the list of poster I watch for... I really like the reply to "subpar slaves".

_____________________________

"People as a whole think they want to hear the truth, until they hear it." -Stormism

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Attention Slaves! - 3/31/2008 12:52:32 PM   
hopelesslyInvo


Posts: 522
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: the future
Status: offline 		i think it often has a lot of responsibility on both sides, but after a dry spell i start to feel like they've lost interest, i guess they might just be thinking the same way.  other times i feel like i pique someone's curiosity but after a few good talks, it's like they found out as much as they needed.  then there these other ones... i feel almost certain they're trying to "test" me and my reactions to some things, sometimes i'm inclined to fail these on purpose if for no other reason than to "test" them.

the ones that are like "you didn't do this" are either silly or downright foolish.  it's like losing an auction because you never raised your hand, but later you vent about how the auctioneer never asked if you wanted to bid on it.

(in reply to LadyHathor)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Attention Slaves! - 3/31/2008 1:10:13 PM   
lally3


Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline 		walterrego has it pretty much right there, but id like to throw in a thought too....

both sides complain about the same thing.. the 'kneel bitch brigade' and the 'tell me what to do now' bunch and i wonder if both arent to some degree setting each other off.

if subs/slaves are needing to be given a feeling of assertive dominance and fall away from a lack of it and dominants feel they have to be assertive in order to catch a sub/slaves attention, arent we all just confusing the heck out of each other.

speaking for myself.  talking to a dominant about anything atall gives me a far better feel for their dominant nature than any preemptive ordering about.

< Message edited by lally3 -- 3/31/2008 1:12:08 PM >

(in reply to hopelesslyInvo)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Attention Slaves! - 3/31/2008 1:46:34 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		women, when they are vetting for a dom want to make an emotional connection before submitting . Men, I don't think, have this same need. Perhapes they just want to submit right off the get-go.
The emotional dynamic for men is different  than for women. I don't think they are as patient about establishing a relationship either. Perhapes you might ask to meet sooner to have a face-to-face discussion.

(in reply to lally3)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Attention Slaves! - 3/31/2008 6:19:00 PM   
slavemaia


Posts: 395
Joined: 8/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHathor

ok, here is where I get a bit hmm befuddled, so I am  more than open to being slapped about a bit--the topic is--- slaves ( male slaves, as My experience doesn't extend further than that, however, I want as always to hear all...)--
 
This is not to dispute the difference/definition/or classification of a slave---it is however to discuss the demeanor of many that I have chatted with---so we chat, we trade some emails, I look to move away from CM to a better form of comunication--then to phone---then nada, nothing, zip-- still appearing on CM though regular as sunshine--and the response?   "you did not take control of me" , "i must feel i am being treated as a slave"-- ( and no lectures please about online versus---if you note, the attempt here is to move to reality)
 
what is with the  " i await you to take control of me"  " i await your command for i'm a slave and must be commanded", "i cannot act without your control"---These are semi intelligent, professional, contributing adults--not alleged wankers---men with life credentials!
 
ok Ladies and Gentleman, we have real life here, or am I missing something, to think some stranger is going to walk in ONLINE and start dictating commands to upset the balance of your life--isn't that ludicrous when you really look at it? Isn't that a cop out a bit?
 
Even someone I know very well who is married and wants to be a slave, real time, in My own area, I will never issue the commands he seeks for it is---what---crazy?  Do you all REALLY expect someone to step in, sight unseen, no relationship and just start making rules? I am not George Bush here people---
 
fantasies aside, you really think that someone with a good life, a good reputation, a good handle on reality is going to do that??
 
Am I missing something?
 



i think it's just as much a fantasy for a slave to assume that a Dominant is going to instantly take control, as it is for a Dominant to expect instant obedience. Play is play and real life is real life. i would no more expect a Dominant to instantly take control of me than i would expect a vanilla man to instantly marry me. haha. But, i remember that at one time i had all kinds of ideas about what Dominance looks like and how it should feel etc. It seems most people go through that stage and are filled with idealistic, fantasies of erotic dominance and submission and somehow seem to lose sight of the fact that they're dealing with another human being.
 
i believe that a slave's focus is on pleasing and serving their Owner, not the other way around. Online people can be or do anything they wish with no consequences. In reality, results need to be considered. i think there's absolutely no harm in people choosing to "play" with each other online or even realtime and be and say whatever they want. The problem occurs when people think real life is going to imitate play and that all a Dominant really wants is to fulfill the subs kink and sexual appetites.
 
So as far as awaiting a command or not being able to act without Your control - ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Keep waiting kiddo. my Master is Master simply because He is who He is - it's not about play acting or theatrics. Submission is a decision, an agreement. i see it pretty much like anything i agree to do in my life. i'm held accountable by what i agreed to be accountable to. In my case i agreed to obey Him in all things. Now, how does that somehow, someway mean He must command me - hmmmmm?

_____________________________


She reaches up, not for the apple, but for what causes it to be there.
slave to love - - Chairman's maia

(in reply to LadyHathor)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Attention Slaves! - 4/1/2008 8:35:10 AM   
peterK50


Posts: 433
Joined: 1/12/2006
Status: offline 		File it along with all the Dommes who whine loud & long how there are no "real" slaves out there & then ignore your e-mail.

_____________________________

Religion Is About Seeking Knowledge, Not Knowing All The Answers.

(in reply to slavemaia)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Attention Slaves! - 4/1/2008 4:40:21 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		In our society, we are raised that other people's actions control us. We cease to take responsibility for our own actions and insist that others influence us to the point that they "make" us do things and such. This is simply not true. I cannot control someone who really does not want to be controled, nor will I waste my time trying to do so.

Another way this manifests is the lack of ability to make decisions for yourself. Many with this attitude want someone else to tell them what they know they should do anyway in order to be happy...but they don't love themselves enough to do it. I can work with this in a lot of ways, but if they give the impression that just anyone will do, I don't want them.

There also seems to be a feeling in some circles that a slave does as told and nothing more. I desire proactive service, not reactive. It's, frankly, too much work for me to focus my entire attention on a robot.

So, again, use it as a weeding tool. When they've figured out that being a healthy PERSON requires some self awareness rather than waiting for the wind to blow, then they're ready for a relationship that is rewarding.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to LadyHathor)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Attention Slaves! - 4/1/2008 7:00:36 PM   
TeachMeTonight


Posts: 67
Joined: 11/13/2006
Status: offline 		I don't think you are missing anything except perhaps wasting more of your time with people who are looking for a fantasy.

I am with you in that I want to know the man before I want to talk about levels of control.  Even when I do decide this is someone I would like to have a dominant relationship with I am going to phase in control and not assume all of it at once.  I like to to let relationships grow and not "happen."

_____________________________

Yours in Leather
Teach Me Tonight


(in reply to LadyHathor)
Profile   Post #: 20
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