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RE: Request for Knowledge - 10/4/2005 5:44:59 PM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
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quote:

Does that mean that Single Dominants don't qualify as Masters


A single Dominant is kind of an oxymoron. How are you dominant (at least in terms of being a Master) by yourself?

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Request for Knowledge - 10/4/2005 7:49:34 PM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

So is it your opinion that all one needs to be a Master is a willing submissive? Does that mean that Single Dominants don't qualify as Masters?

Your question appears to misinterpret the point I was trying to make so let's see if I can clarify it for you.

To me, the term "a master" implies that someone has reached a commonly accepted level of expertise in whatever it is they're doing. That isn't necessarily the same as being somebody's master -- obviously one person accepting a dominant as a master doesn't magically give him all the skills to be one. That's just one nuance but there are others; for example it seems that master is a term that is so overused by kinksters that it is virtually meaningless. Seems like it is often used as a synonym for dominant so I brought up the analogy to a Shaolin Temple because there the word master has real meaning. Cynic that I am I think that the only folks who should be called masters are those least likely to describe themselves that way because that means they realize there is plenty more to learn and are working on it; the self-described masters think they know it all and therefore probably don't know much at all.

That said, I do like Archer's description of striving for the goal and eventually you realize you're there; my cynicism is directed toward those whose goal is the title instead of the knowledge. I also liked how Archer mentioned that it is up to the individual to define what it takes to be a master; though it highlights the point that there isn't a standard definition for a master, it is certainly far better than calling yourself master because you just bought a flogger.

So being a master isn't related to relationship status; single dominants may or may not be masters -- a knucklehead with a lot of experience can think he's a master while everyone else just thinks he's a clown; someone else having less experience but also having natural talent and smarts may be further along the path.

< Message edited by happypervert -- 10/4/2005 8:26:25 PM >


_____________________________

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Request for Knowledge - 10/4/2005 8:29:50 PM   
anopheles


Posts: 241
Joined: 6/23/2005
Status: offline
There are a few practical things that might help you on your journey.

1. Read books, check out websites about power exchange relationships and talk to others. That can help you to apply the things that you desire and want to experience to real life.

2. Soul search. Soul search. Soul search. Can't emphasize that enough. You may find that what works for others, is incompatible with how you want to live your life.

3. Once you find the submissive/slave that you want to own, don't be afraid to become vulnerable to that person. Knowing that a Master does not fear being vulnerable to them, will bond you to that slave in a way that you would never imagine possible.

4. Don't settle. A Master should never settle for a slave that is "almost" what they want, just as a slave should not do the same.

Never take the decision to take someone under your control lightly.


Good luck in your search!!

--Anopheles

_____________________________

You've got me so high, my shoes are scraping the sky -- for my Luvdragon

(in reply to happypervert)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Request for Knowledge - 10/5/2005 3:14:53 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
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Haven't had a chance to really reply to this before now, since I wanted to give a thorough answer (yes folks, this is going to be long, you better go to the bathroom now )

A lot of good advice has already been given. In particular...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soulhuntre

That would depend on what you consider the requirements of being a Master.

There are no objective rules to the term. There are no cirtification boards. There is no accepted defininition within the community. There is no list of requirements or traits that make you a Master or not.

In other words, the term has no meaning outside of yourself and those who serve you. So you decide what you need to know to consider yourself one.

Absolutely true. Some view Master as being purely a title. Some as a particular role in a particular style of relationship. Some as a state of being. Some read Nietzsche about it. There is truth and fiction in all that, but the answer that is most meaningful to you is what does it mean to you.

I would however suggest you not view it or seek it as a title. There are those that do and assume that because they possess the title that they are then entitled to the authority and respect associated with it. This is what John Maxwell, in his book "Developing the Leader Within You" referrs to as positional authority. Such individuals base their security and authority on the title, rather than on actual talent. The classic example is that of a green 2nd lieutenant who takes command of a platoon, he has the rank and title of an officer but not the experience. He is obeyed purely because of his title, his rank, not out of genuine respect or leadership. In such cases its often the veteran sergeant who is looked to for real leadership. Positional authority is the weakest form of authority, and not surprisingly "masters" who rely on this alone are also viewed as weak.

Which leads me to...

quote:

ORIGINAL: anopheles

There are a few practical things that might help you on your journey.

2. Soul search. Soul search. Soul search. Can't emphasize that enough. You may find that what works for others, is incompatible with how you want to live your life.

If you aren't seeking positional authority than the only other source for your dominance is within yourself. This is the source of the kind of dominance and leadership people in general respect and respond too. It comes from within, not from a title or a position assigned by another person or a group. I'm going to suggest a personal exercise below, something you can do to help with that soul searching and introspection, but I an going to comment on a few other things first.

Which brings me to...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

You need to get out in the world. I'm sure that there are some lifestyle groups in Denver. Attend Munches, ask questions, then go back and assess if your lifestyle and relationship goals need amendment. Take your time. Learn as much as possible. The web is a great source for information.

NO ONE has your answer but you.

I'm going to half disagree (or half agree if you're a half full kinda person) with Merc and others on this point. It is not necessary to join a group, go to munches, etc. to discover your own dominant nature and what that means to you. Ultimately its a personal journey that is going to require introspection on your part, no one can do that for you. The most any group can do is A) provide information, B) provide inspiration, C) provide a testing ground, and D) provide a title. Both A and B can be also found through the internet, books, and yourself (finding those answers already within you). As I noted above, a title is of dubious value, so D isn't a very valuable commodity. That leaves C as the one unique thing groups can provide, a chance to interact and test yourself against others. But if you are not at a point where you have established your own identity, then you aren't ready to test that. So for the time being groups may not be anymore helpful than other resources.

But Merc is correct in the second statement, no one has your answers but you. They are there inside of you and its up to you to find them. The rest of us can only provide guidance in that.

That said...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

1. Define what you feel a master is, read the 907973419817 things that tell you what one is and is not thrash that all out, get rid of the platitudes and focus on what's real and workable for you.

2. While doing that talk to other people who exemplify what you think a Master should be, gather their thjoughts and use them to further refine your own definition.

3. The only real way to learn to be a Master is to define it for yourself and move towards the definition. Eventually you will discover you've been one for awhile and didn't even notice it had happened.

4. Being a Dominant for awhile while you work on the Master thing will make the journey easier to see as something you can do.

5. Don't confirm that you want to be a "Master" until you have a firm understanding of what that means for you. Hell you might find out along the way that you don't want to be a "Master" after all, that being a Dominant, or a Sadist, or a Daddy, or something else.
There is no need to self identify until you know who you are. You wouldn't accept someone else putting a lable on you that quickly, why would you do it to yourself?

Archer sums it up very well and you would do well to take his advice. In particular two of his points I think are key. One is that you keep an open mind about what form your dominance will ultimately take. You might turn out to be a Dom, a Daddy, a Master, a Sadist, or some novel combination that is your own invention... and all of that is okay. View this as a process of self-discovery, not as a movement towards a preconceived concept. Archer's second point regarding speaking to others is good and I will add this to it. Seek out role models, sources of inspiration, and do not limit yourself on what those might be.

I'll use my self as an example on this. When I start my journey in this lifestyle I was entirely unaware how widespread it was. I'd never heard of Old Guard, Leathermen, Jack Rinella, Guy Baldwin or John Warren (in fact it wasn't until here recently on these forums I had any contact with John at all). I did not know there were books on the lifestyle (local bookstores did not carry them), nor did I know there were groups or organized events. I was pretty cut off except for one BBS out of Ohio called The Ace of Spades run by Dr Nibble (David Proper who is still a friend to this day though the BBS ceased to be years ago). I had none of the usual role models one might expect for this lifestyle, a few posts on the BBS, a couple of essays there, and that was about it. I had to fill in the blanks on my own and I had to seek my own sources of inspiration and role models. For me it was books on psychology (Adler, Skinner, Maslow, and Branden in particular), books on leadership (John Maxwell in particular and also Dale Carnegie), and since being a gentleman is important to me I read quite a bit by John Bridges. I took a more philosophical aspect from Nietzsche (in particular Beyond Good and Evil and especially his essay on What is Noble which is part of that book). These, among other things became my role models, my sources of inspiration in seeking my own dominance and defining for myself what form that would take.

My point is this, many recommend you look within the lifestyle, and while that is useful you may also find many things outside it useful as well. Personally, I think looking both within and outside the lifestyle tends to produce a more rounded perspective and a better dominant, but that's my opinion. Sir Isaac Newton figured out the fundamental laws of physics not by sitting in a college, but from an apple hitting him on the head. And while we could debate the truth of that old story, the point is simply this, inspiration can come from many sources and sometimes surprising directions, keep yourself open to that.

Okay, now for those exercises I promised... for buns of steel... no wait, wrong set of notes.
Seriously, you asked originally...
quote:

How does a man learn to be a Master?

I am recently divorced and would like to take a submissive or slave, but know that until I Master myself, I surely cant Master anyone else.

From this your focus is on the "how and why" of that, in many ways I think you are still trying to figure out what questions to ask yourself. It has been said that you need to define what a Master is for yourself, define your own dominance. What I am going to offer are some suggestion on questions to help prompt some thought and introspection. I would also suggest you get a journal, a spiral bound notebook, a three ring binder, something you can write in and use as a journal as part of this. Having that to look back on and reflect on can help you gain insight into yourself.

On the very first page, write down a mission statement. Something like "May this journal be a record of my journey and self discovery of my own dominance." That sets a tone for the whole journal, its purpose and it helps put you in that frame of mind.

On the following pages, write down these questions one at a time (one per page if you wish) and as you go work on answering them. This is a list of questions designed to prompt introspection, to make you think and to challenge your perceptions of things. In answering them you'll begin to define for yourself what dominance and being a Master means to you.

Name one person you know personally who you consider to be dominant. Consider what about their personality makes them dominant.

Think of an employer you have worked for that everyone hated. How did his lack of respect affect his ability to lead, to influence others?

Thinks of someone famous who is very charismatic. What makes them charismatic, why do people admire them?

You feel you are dominant because?

You want to dominate others because?

Others will accept your dominance because?

How are dominance and leadership similar?

How are they different?

Dominants are often looked upon to be teachers, father figures, disciplinarians, and leaders.
How do you relate to these roles?
In what ways to you think would be good at these roles?
In what ways do you think you would have problems with these roles?

How important is a stable, well defined structure to a dominant/submissive relationship? How important is it to define the roles of the dominant and the submissive within that structure?

How important is self-discipline in a dominant?

How important is consistency of behavior and expectations in a dominant?

In what ways do dominants set goals for the relationship and for submissives? Do you feel they should or should not do this? Why?

How much is a dominant responsible for in a D/s relationship?

Does this remove responsibility from the submissive?

What is the submissive responsible for, and to whom is she responsible?

Communication is important in any relationship, especially so in a D/s relationship. In what ways are you a good communicator? In what ways could you improve?

A D/s relationship is about power exchange? What is actually exchanged? Is the exchange one sided or does each give something? How does this happen? How much do you wish to exchange? How much are you willing to give?

How do dominance and authority relate to each other?

What is the difference between assumed authority and legitimate authority?

Where does each come from?

What kind of authority does a Master utilize?

How important is integrity and ethics to a dominant?

How can having a code of ethics help a dominant?

How can a code of ethics hinder a dominant?

In a D/s relationship, are the dominant and submissive equals? Explain your answer.

How would being equal or unequal affect the relationship?

How does being inferrior or superior relate to being submissive? Can a submissive be superior in some ways to the dominant and still be submissive, can the dominant still be dominant?

What do you as a dominant seek from a D/s relationship, what rewards do you expect from it?

What do you think a submissive seeks from a D/s relatioship? How can you provide this
?

By the time you finish answering these questions you will no doubt have still more questions. That's fine, it should prompt new questions because it is intend to prompt thought. But you should also have a clearer concept of dominance and how you are dominant, areas in which you need to grow and improve, and also some ideas and theories to test out to see if you are right.

Best of luck with it.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to Devan)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Request for Knowledge - 10/5/2005 4:39:33 AM   
hannahmayxx


Posts: 1
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
Oooooo This is scarey....

Just feel i have to say, Padriag...im impressed!

Now, turn it around a little, How does a woman become a true slave!

One of the best pieces i have read in a while, and anyone struggling inside to feel what they truly are, should read, and read , and read, and take to your soul, coz that ,as Padriag put it in a much better way than i ever could, is where the answers lie.

And i am really very nervous writing here for the first time, but felt i wanted to compliment my friend on a great piece of thoughtful writing.

And now im back to just watching and learning that lil bit more about myself every day.

Best Wishes To Everyone.

hannahmayxx kiss kiss

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Request for Knowledge - 10/6/2005 7:53:25 AM   
Masterwolf61


Posts: 3
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: offline
I would like to say thanks for the question as I have just learned that I do not have to be what you or others want me to be. All that said I too have felt less than and others opinions of me lend to that but alas you know what they say about opinions. I would like to add to all the great advice that what I have learned that has helped the best is that it is first what you think a Master is and second and just as important what your sub or slave finds important in what a Master is. In my experiences it is of no interest to anyone else but those involved with you as to what a great Master is. Again thanks for the question it has relieved the pressure I put on myself.
TJ

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Request for Knowledge - 10/6/2005 8:35:33 AM   
RainGod


Posts: 230
Joined: 7/11/2005
From: Hendersonville, NC
Status: offline
Hello Devan,

In My opinion, you have already demonstrated a most important part of being Dom: the desire to learn and a willingness to accept advice.

I have copied the following from a previous reply of Mine in answer to a very similar posted question:

Some basic ideas:

1. Thou shalt be in control of thine own life before trying to run someone else's.

2. Thou shalt understand the difference between Domination and abuse. submissives and slaves are people, too.

3. Utter not from Thine mouth falsehoods, half-truths, or deceptions, lest Thine days upon the land be very lonely.

4. Thou shalt always remember to be thankful for Thine slave... for without her, you would be only a Dom unto Thyself.


These are just My opinons... but they seem to work. good luck!


_____________________________

Love is a razor & I walk the line on that silver blade... slept in the dust with His daughter her eyes red with the slaughter of innocence... The evil that men do lives on & on.
~ Iron Maiden

(in reply to Devan)
Profile   Post #: 27
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