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JohnWarren -> RE: x (10/6/2005 12:03:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus Actually, I was thinking about doing seminars on a more national level (Midori Envy!) and was riffing on different ideas that hadn't been done already. My Informal Survey results: Teach Manners! Well, I like to think that folks have manners already, taught to them by their families, but we all know that isn't terribly accurate. How often do we femdoms get emails from alarmingly rude men with no social skills to speak of? When did spelling stop mattering? When did "Kneel, bitch", replace an introduction? I suspect that there are women out there who are just as egregious in their ability to offend. So, the idea for a BDSM Charm School, which would cover the basics of social intercourse that we can all agree on. But who would attend? :) Ms Francine, Old Bat I see two problems here. The first is just what would you teach? If it's going to be vanilla manners, I can see an outcry from the High Protocol crew including the Goreans. The second is one the previous poster mentioned. You'll probably be preaching to the converted. That's why I have removed safety lectures from my personal offerings list. The people who need them don't show. Those who do usually could do the lecture better than I.

IronBear -> RE: x (10/6/2005 3:02:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus What's a trik? Ms Francine, Old Bat Gorean term for girl. (probably originating from role-play but it is a term I use daily in anycase.)

SirSix72 -> RE: Basic Training and Guidelines (10/7/2005 12:38:58 AM)
[/quote] ORIGINAL: MasterDirkNC One of the strengths of this lifestyle is independence. The independent development of discipline and service is also the greatest weakness of the lifestyle today. Dominants and submissives meet in chat rooms and websites and spar and fence, each applying personal definitions one to the other. The submissive cult is growing, yearning to be safe and to serve (and top from the bottom), and it is attempting to define the Dominant. Dominants see submissive power growing and yield publicly, adopting the submissive definitions, submissive speak, becoming little more than the whip hands for a growing herd of untrained, undisciplined, harpies. Paying to play in other words by conforming. One overall set of definitions, one generally accepted discipline, and one basic set of guidelines for the training of submissives, as well as Dominants, would help to define the lifestyle, and return control to the Dominants. Common sense indicates that those expected to rule, to train, and to identify the submissives, should control the lifestyle and the relationships that develop as a result of it. [/quote] I can dig where you are coming from but the personal dynamic a D's or M's re;ationship of take from it what applies to you thing has pretty much shot this idea down.A general set of definitions for the difference between slave and submissive greatly varies,,,although I do see where you are going with this and I have to agree that a matter of fact definition would be helpful to returning power to the Dominant. Dr. Gloria G Brame did have a matter of fact definitions for the sub,slave,top,bottom,Master,Dominate The research was well founded and the book was quite interesting and informing. Master Six

Soulhuntre -> RE: Basic Training and Guidelines (10/7/2005 10:21:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear Soulhuntre, G'day mate... I had intended to have added that if a girl come to me from another collar, ideally, I'd want to check her out with her previous owner, and yet still make my own evaluations according to my requirements. I'll still have to train her, but perhaps less that may have been first apparent. Your thoughts? I absolutely agree... and in fact that principle is one I have put a lot of effort into :) The Estate is founded upon the concepts you mention - that for certain types of relationship construct there are common traits that can be taught or instilled independant of the specific preferences of ones eventual owner. I tend to think of it as training the way the Navy Seals do - you can't possibly train people how to react in all circumstances, but you can train them how to figure out how to react in any circumstance and give them the basic skills they can use to build that response. When you combine that combination with a reasonable study of some practically universal human interaction cues you wind up with people who are very, very good at being servants even to those who have preferences they were never trained for. quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear Would this be along the lines of a European Finishing School for young ladies???????? Actually, if it were feasable to open some form of school where triks could, for example learn dance and other relivant subjects especially in their Master's Homes. This would be interesting.... Perhaps even pre collar primer for those seeking a Gorean Collar where the basic can be taught .... Like reading the Gor series etc etc etc...... It would be both interesting and challanging and probably not practical...... It is absolutely feasible to do - as long as your not planning on making money with it :) edited for spelling

LadyHibiscus -> RE: x (10/7/2005 12:49:37 PM)
[/quote] I see two problems here. The first is just what would you teach? If it's going to be vanilla manners, I can see an outcry from the High Protocol crew including the Goreans. The second is one the previous poster mentioned. You'll probably be preaching to the converted. That's why I have removed safety lectures from my personal offerings list. The people who need them don't show. Those who do usually could do the lecture better than I. [/quote] That's why I essentially didn't go with the idea. Yes, I would be teaching what to ME are vanilla manners----but I am an old school lady who was taught old school ways, whether I use them now or not. I am perplexed by men who are in my age group, who have managed to hold down jobs, and often marry, who are utterly incompetent at making (and keeping) friends. I am baffled by women who scuff around in sweatpants, their hair in ponytails and their braless breasts hanging down to their waists, who complain about not being able to attract the men they want---between drags on their cigarettes! After mentally rehearsing a few speeches, I started to feel more and more judgmental, and that is something I try really hard to NOT be. When I was a teacher of children, I tried hard to be a role model, and that's the best I feel I can do here. If someone wants a manners makeover (or hey, fashion tips!) they can always find someone to help them out. :)Ms Francine

harmony3709 -> RE: Basic Training and Guidelines (10/8/2005 12:32:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: target I don't see "submissive power" growing in any menacing way. I do see Dominants getting increasingly detached from reality. subs should have no wants, subs should have no needs other than... Get a dog. My boys are fierce and fine. They have given me their very lives and its a responsibility, not a whim. If i ever develope the its all me attitude I hope someone knocks me down a few pegs. I'll have it coming. I don't have a comment on the OP (or a growing submissive power [??]).........but THIS comment is one I admire and is a sentiment I wish I read more often. Blessed be, harmony

IronBear -> RE: Basic Training and Guidelines (10/8/2005 1:25:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Soulhuntre quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear Soulhuntre, G'day mate... I had intended to have added that if a girl come to me from another collar, ideally, I'd want to check her out with her previous owner, and yet still make my own evaluations according to my requirements. I'll still have to train her, but perhaps less that may have been first apparent. Your thoughts? I absolutely agree... and in fact that principle is one I have put a lot of effort into :) The Estate is founded upon the concepts you mention - that for certain types of relationship construct there are common traits that can be taught or instilled independant of the specific preferences of ones eventual owner. I tend to think of it as training the way the Navy Seals do - you can't possibly train people how to react in all circumstances, but you can train them how to figure out how to react in any circumstance and give them the basic skills they can use to build that response. When you combine that combination with a reasonable study of some practically universal human interaction cues you wind up with peopel who are very, very good at being servants even to those who have preferences they were never trained for. quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear Would this be along the lines of a European Finishing School for young ladies???????? Actually, if it were feasable to open some form of school where triks could, for example learn dance and other relivant subjects especially in their Master's Homes. This would be interesting.... Perhaps even pre collar primer for those seeking a Gorean Collar where the basic can be taught .... Like reading the Gor series etc etc etc...... It would be both interesting and challanging and probably not practical...... It is absolutely feasible to do - as long a syour not plannign on making money with it :) I absolutely agree. We share similar views on such things. What you say about Seal Training, pretty much applies to all the SF units I've associated with in a number of countries and the way I've trained my teams and body guards to work in high risk areas. I'd prefer as part of a trik's training to indoctrinate into all the facits of my life so that she will instinctively know when I need to be alone or left undisturbed, and how to deal with people and what ever is happening to safeguard my privacy. So in effect a trik in my personal collar needs to also act as my PA as well and if she has the capabilities, to watch my back too..... She would be a slave in the true Gorean sense of ther word with duties not normally found in many homes. Trust? Sure that has to be developed. She must learn to trust me implicitly as i need to be able to trust her. I comment I made in another post that I would take a bullet for her as I have for other family members stands true. In effect I value my property and will defend it wilh every means available.

Soulhuntre -> RE: Basic Training and Guidelines (10/8/2005 10:31:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear need to be able to trust her. I comment I made in another post that I would take a bullet for her as I have for other family members stands true. In effect I value my property and will defend it wilh every means available. This is a more complex area for me. I would do the same for Kimiko and Tatsumi because I am their Daddy... not because I am their Owner. I like protecting my protecting my property as well but to say that means I would have to take a bullet to do so is a lot like (to me) saying I should take a bullet to protect my car. There are limits to how far I will go to protect property.

FLButtSlut -> RE: Basic Training and Guidelines (10/8/2005 10:56:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Soulhuntre This is a more complex area for me. I would do the same for Kimiko and Tatsumi because I am their Daddy... not because I am their Owner. I like protecting my protecting my property as well but to say that means I would have to take a bullet to do so is a lot like (to me) saying I should take a bullet to protect my car. There are limits to how far I will go to protect property. Comparing human life (whether you consider it your property or not) to an inanimate object speaks volumes about the characterstic of a person. Those who know me, know exactly what I mean by that, those who can't figure it out...

Soulhuntre -> RE: Basic Training and Guidelines (10/9/2005 8:56:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FLButtSlut Comparing human life (whether you consider it your property or not) to an inanimate object speaks volumes about the characterstic of a person. LOL - it wasn't my analogy. I wasn't the person saying that "protecting my property" was the purpose of keeping a slave safe :)

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