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RE: The true nature of BDSM - 4/5/2008 7:10:08 AM

thetammyjo

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I think the OP is talking about the ideals of BDSM.

That sociology professor I've mentioned in other threads always describes these ideals to her students and then asks them what the rest of the world would look like if those same ideals were applied to every day life and vanilla relationships. Her students can see the value in the ideals but seem unable to grasp how to teach that or enact them.

But let's face it, I'm sure most of us, including me, had to practice these ideals of "communication, honesty, loyalty, disipline." that the OP mentioned. I'm not prefect at them but I do try and I require my slave/sub to try as well.

I've have noticed that my applying these ideals to my kink life has bled over to my mundane, vanilla interactions too. I put up with a lot less BS now and the relationships I do form tend to be stronger.

Are these ideals the "true nature" of BDSM? I don't think so because that implies that BDSM came first. I think what happens is that people realized they could take some of the unspoken dynamics (dominance/submissive, pain/pleasure) and make them conscious and create a system of ethics and morals, ideals, around them. That gets promoted in each generation though how and to the specifics of the code varies from place to place and time to time.

I personally love the idea of people being more conscious of choices and decisions because I think it can help each person become better for self and society. I also love the idea of people following a path that fulfills them but I think that works out best when one is conscious of the choices and desires.

Anyway I'm rambling again.

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RE: The true nature of BDSM - 4/5/2008 7:39:23 AM

Real_Trouble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
But let's face it, I'm sure most of us, including me, had to practice these ideals of "communication, honesty, loyalty, disipline." that the OP mentioned. I'm not prefect at them but I do try and I require my slave/sub to try as well.

Perhaps, but to attribute those ideals specifically to BDSM is pretty naive.

There are many, many world views and philosophies that have stressed those exact things; to somehow claim BDSM occupies some special place or deserves claim on them is fantastically arrogant. Perhaps it is one of many, many ways to get at that kind of thing, but what matters is not so much the BDSM part.

In short, if leather and whips weren't involved, but you were a person who was honest, loyal, disciplined, and could communicate well, would you somehow be "less" enlightened / worthy of respect / etc?

BDSM is not privleged or special in any grand sense (or, at least, no more than anything else).

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RE: The true nature of BDSM - 4/5/2008 2:25:10 PM

thetammyjo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real_Trouble

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
But let's face it, I'm sure most of us, including me, had to practice these ideals of "communication, honesty, loyalty, disipline." that the OP mentioned. I'm not prefect at them but I do try and I require my slave/sub to try as well.

Perhaps, but to attribute those ideals specifically to BDSM is pretty naive.

There are many, many world views and philosophies that have stressed those exact things; to somehow claim BDSM occupies some special place or deserves claim on them is fantastically arrogant. Perhaps it is one of many, many ways to get at that kind of thing, but what matters is not so much the BDSM part.

In short, if leather and whips weren't involved, but you were a person who was honest, loyal, disciplined, and could communicate well, would you somehow be "less" enlightened / worthy of respect / etc?

BDSM is not privleged or special in any grand sense (or, at least, no more than anything else).

I'm sorry, but I didn't say they were only applied in BDSM but they are consciously applied to the rhetoric of BDSM very often.

Something the OP didn't mention is something that I think is more often applied in BDSM than in the vanilla world is conscious, fully informed choice and negotiation of roles. I think much of the roles in the vanilla and mundane world are passed on by tradition and followed by tradition not but fully conscious choice.

Not everyone in BDSM believes that, by the way, because some folks say they just become or discovered they were the slave/sub/master/dom of their partner. Again this is a disconnect between the rhetoric of the ideals and how people really live.

That's my observations anyway. I'm sure yours may be different as your experiences are different.

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RE: The true nature of BDSM - 4/5/2008 2:48:55 PM

colouredin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aBondageTop
I think you are full of BS. BDSM is not a religion. It's just something that some people enjoy. Almost all the practitioners I have met are above average intelligence, but they aren't especially enlightened. I have been around CM a while. From the message board and member journals, it seems a fair number of members have rather poor judgment, willing to undertake shocking risks hoping that someone will looooove them.

Hmmmm smells similar over here too, unfortunatly arguing a generalisation with another generalisation really doesnt work. BDSM for many people is not 'just something that some people enjoy' for some its who they are and their lifestyle, and saying 'just' about that is rather offensive. No people who practice are indeed just people and being involved doesnt instantly make you more enlightened, however I do think that it can make people more self aware (I know it has me) In any random sample of people you will find people who are lonley and people who want to be loved, yeah some even take silly risks. I agree with your latter point (I dont agree with the negativity applied to it though, why do we sneer at those who want to be loved? Dont many of us? Maybe some are just more open about it and maybe some are more desperate for it, doesnt make them bad people)

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RE: The true nature of BDSM - 4/5/2008 9:48:08 PM

aBondageTop

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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

Hmmmm smells similar over here too, unfortunatly arguing a generalisation with another generalisation really doesnt work.

I didn't mean to generalize -- I just meant to point out the obvious counterexample to the OP's proposition that BDSM enthusiasts are more enlightened than the general population.

quote:

BDSM for many people is not 'just something that some people enjoy' for some its who they are and their lifestyle, and saying 'just' about that is rather offensive.

Some people will turn anything into a religion -- BDSM, dog breeding, stamp collecting, whatever. Instead of simply pursuing an activity for the joy it brings, it becomes a quest for status in the subculture. "It's who they are" -- how limiting, and how sad.

quote:

... people who practice are indeed just people and being involved doesnt instantly make you more enlightened, however I do think that it can make people more self aware (I know it has me)

Sure, but if you had taken up ice skating or piano or gardening or yoga with the same fervor, you would also have gained self-awareness.

quote:

In any random sample of people you will find people who are lonley and people who want to be loved, yeah some even take silly risks. I agree with your latter point (I dont agree with the negativity applied to it though, why do we sneer at those who want to be loved?

I didn't mean to sneer -- I sympathize with the lonely. My loneliness led me into a very bad relationship that still complicates my life. I just don't have much patience for the "Aren't we all so much more sophisticated than the clueless vanillas" smugness. It keeps me away from most community events.

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RE: The true nature of BDSM - 4/7/2008 4:19:14 AM

edgepassion

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

nope. and they all dress funny too..
and they do things like "make sweet gentle love" to each other.. *shudders*

Now that made me laugh...out loud even:)

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RE: The true nature of BDSM - 4/7/2008 4:34:03 AM

Lashra

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I'm just doing the things that I like to do with the person I enjoy doing them with. If people want to consider that "dark" or "scarey" thats up to them, I percieve it as our "norm".

~Lashra

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RE: The true nature of BDSM - 4/7/2008 5:45:41 AM

faithfulfemme

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aBondageTop

Some people will turn anything into a religion -- BDSM, dog breeding, stamp collecting, whatever. Instead of simply pursuing an activity for the joy it brings, it becomes a quest for status in the subculture. "It's who they are" -- how limiting, and how sad.

Sure, but if you had taken up ice skating or piano or gardening or yoga with the same fervor, you would also have gained self-awareness.

When i first came out as a queer womyn, i felt like i had "come home." i knew i had found who i was. When i first came out as a bdsm submissive, again, i felt like i had "come home". i knew i had found who i was. The solid, stability both of these events gave my life simply can not be measured.

In neither of these occurances did i feel limited, or sad. Just the opposite, in fact--i felt then, and still do, as if there was an unlimited future in front of me and i was delightfully to-my-soul happy. Matter of fact, it was prior to discovering these realities about myself that i felt limited and sad.

In practicing bdsm i have found self-awareness.  And this discovery of self continues the longer i am in the lifestyle. As a contrast, i have played the piano since about the age of 6, taking lessons until i was 16; the piano never gave me one iota of the knowledge of self that BDSM has.

Somehow i think, for me, it has to do with being a masochist. When someone picks up a "weapon" (i use that term advisedly) and plies it against my flesh and body, my trust for that person goes to a level i have never had in a "vanilla" relationship.  Handing my physical and mental well-being willingly over to another person, and trusting them not to harm me, causes me to go to a deeper place in my consciousness, and perhaps even my sub-consciousnes, regards my relationship with them than in any other relationship i've had with anyone. Ever.

i feel i have been privileged to find my bdsm orientation. This is only my opinion, of course, and YMMV......

edited for typoitis....

< Message edited by faithfulfemme -- 4/7/2008 5:50:17 AM >

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RE: The true nature of BDSM - 4/7/2008 7:57:48 AM

akisha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

there is no lifestyle...just life itself..and what you do with it.

Exactly!!!

hehe i soo love the new emoticons *S*

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RE: The true nature of BDSM - 4/7/2008 6:59:14 PM

HornyToadsMI

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Wow, i have to say the longer and the deeper i delve, the broader things are here than i initially thought. i am even in a "Mom's Group" online, that is dedicated to moms who "love differently". The last few weeks, we have been chatting with a submissive who has had to perform a role reversal - She is now the Domme, while he is new her submissive until he gets his "act" together. So, nothing in this lifestyle is absolute. Just go with the flo.....

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