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A Question of labels. - 4/3/2008 3:28:28 PM

colouredin

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Ok this isnt about one true way or anything but INDIVIDUALS and their own experances. I have seen a couple of threads that seem to suggest its a progression from sub to slave, Dom to Master etc I personally dont agree with this however I would like to know just out of interest if many people have changed the label that they identify with and their reasons for it.

Did you start off calling yourself a sub and change to slave? or did you call youself a Dom and change to sub, did you initially consider yourself a switch then choose one or the other as your label? What changed? Has anyone changed lots of times, sub to Dom back to sub again? Im really just curious this isnt about whats right or wrong just a general interest.

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RE: A Question of labels. - 4/3/2008 3:38:06 PM

Maya2001

Posts: 1656
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I am assuming that the references of sub to slave were within one relationship from what I read into a couple of posts.. basically started as a sub but as trust grew they were able to submit to greater authority over them

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RE: A Question of labels. - 4/3/2008 3:43:00 PM

Bound2One

Posts: 614
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When I first started exploring my submissive side, I called myself a submissive. Once I got a deeper understanding of myself and did a lot more research, talking, etc., I realized I identified as a slave.

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RE: A Question of labels. - 4/3/2008 3:46:34 PM

colouredin

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No maya the ones I read was basically implying to be sub is less than to be a slave and all should aim for that, though thats not really what the question is about.

Thankyou bound, thats the kind of thing I wanted to read, I dont think that the labels have to be dependant on relationships you can identify with whichever purely by self awareness.

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RE: A Question of labels. - 4/3/2008 3:52:56 PM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
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From: new york state
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I've changed from submissive to slave because of my current relationship. It was not a progression and slavery is not a deeper form of submission. In my experience, its not submission at all and I'm less submissive as a slave than I was as a submissive. It puzzles the hell out of me because its counter to everything I've learned/read but thats the way it is. He requires my obedience, something very different from submission and doesn't really like it when I'm in a submissive headspace. He's said it bores him. I kind of agree that I'm more useful when I'm in a regular headspace because I can be really loopy when I'm actively submitting. He puts me in that kind of loopy headspace sometimes, but its him putting me there when he wants me there. And, I had to get to the point where I stopped submitting so he could control that...thats why I say slavery and submission are two distinct things and not two points on a contimuum.

I dunno if this makes sense.

ed: I don't think I emphasized nearly enough that I'm only speaking of my own experience.

< Message edited by gypsygrl -- 4/3/2008 4:01:27 PM >

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RE: A Question of labels. - 4/3/2008 3:57:18 PM

colouredin

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Hmm thats really interesting gypsy, I personally havent experianced it so I cant relate to it but it does make sense, and is a way I havent looked at it, so was the change because of your Dominant not liking you in the sub headspace or was it something else? or less tangible.

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Post #: 6

RE: A Question of labels. - 4/3/2008 3:57:18 PM

metalmiss

Posts: 341
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From: Croydon, UK
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When i started exploring the scene i originally called myself submissive.. Even though at that point i had known for a long time that it ran deeper with me than that.
At the time i would never have gone so far as to call myself a slave. My reasons were simple.. i was 16 years old and did not consider myself "mature" enough in many respects including my life experience and knowledge of myself to make such a claim. It has taken me 7 years of exploring who and what i am within the scene before i have finally found myself comfortable with labelling myself as a slave.. and only then it was when i was in the arms of the first Man who i have ever called Master.

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RE: A Question of labels. - 4/3/2008 4:06:15 PM

gypsygrl

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I edited and think I might have addressed your question. But, I don't know if its a matter of like or dislike, but what he wants/needs at any given time. And control.

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RE: A Question of labels. - 4/3/2008 4:09:57 PM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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A lot of people think being a slave is much more twue than being a sub. I disagree. I think the coolest thing is to be who you are in a relationship where your needs are totally fulfilled with someone else who finds their needs totally fulfilled in that relationship also.

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Post #: 9

RE: A Question of labels. - 4/3/2008 4:10:14 PM

colouredin

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Thankyou for the edit, that makes sense, and thankyou for sharing

Thankyou too metalmiss, its interesting that you felt that you couldnt take the label due to maturity but im assuming that you did keep the label submisive at that time.

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Post #: 10

RE: A Question of labels. - 4/3/2008 4:14:15 PM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

It was not a progression and slavery is not a deeper form of submission. In my experience, its not submission at all and I'm less submissive as a slave than I was as a submissive. It puzzles the hell out of me because its counter to everything I've learned/read but thats the way it is.

This was truly interesting to me. I have so often read that slaves are levels up from submissives... That masters were bigger than Dom/mes... people are so obsessed with labels (thank you, colouredin), it's refreshing to read of a different invididual experience. Thank you for that, gypsygrl.

I don't really know if the term fits, because I'm gobby and opinionated, but I suppose for all intents and purposes I am a submissive. I still have trouble with that particular word, though, and even just typing it here made me feel a little bit uneasy. I've battled with these feelings of submission all my life. But I'm a twue submissive, I swear, Miss - it's who I am, it's what I do (not always very well, but I'm working on it, and that's what matters, right?).

When I "started" I was a bit of a switch. I had a lot of fun experimenting with that, but it didn't really do anything for me. Sometimes these feelings come back (wouldn't it be fun to torment colouredin for a few hours?), but no... they belong to the realm of fantasy. I don't think I could Domme anybody: I haven't got it in me. But my signature line comes partly from that experience. I prefered switching girls, incidentally - boys were far too demanding.

But really, when I read people debating ad nauseam about the true nature of these labels I can't help but think it's a little bit silly. We are what we do, yes, but we also are what we feel - and feelings don't go with sticky labels. I also wonder whether people don't adapt their personnae to the roles they want to take on, in part thanks to these boards, where so much info is found on these subjects.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 4/3/2008 4:15:47 PM >

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RE: A Question of labels. - 4/3/2008 4:26:22 PM

tinkerbelle3

Posts: 55
Joined: 1/25/2008
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In the beginning I thought of myself as a submissive, then I likened myself as a slave, now I'm sure that I'm a little submissive girl. It's all very confusing. I attribute it to getting to and understanding the core of me, who I really am. - tinkerbelle3

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 12

RE: A Question of labels. - 4/3/2008 4:33:46 PM

submyt

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Joined: 2/15/2008
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Maybe I am off the beaten path here a bit, but my belief is that every person is different, as is every D/s or M/s relationship. The perameters in which the relationship is defined have to do with the two involved. There is so much emphasis placed on names...too much, IMHO.

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 13

RE: A Question of labels. - 4/3/2008 4:49:31 PM

colouredin

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Wow, that was possibly the most that I have ever read about you, thanks for that, its interesting to know that you struggle with the terms because its not something that I would have expected just backs up the whole topic that subtee made yesterday about assumptions. I agree with your assertation that once we apply a label to ourselves we may change to fit them, its why people have such an issue with the word true because despite how much we may dismiss I know that I have found myself thinking yeah but am i really a submissive (especially as some people like to tell you that you arent) But thats something that has become less important to me. One of the biggest things i had was when people would make jokes about pain and say ha you are submissive so you must love that, im not a masochist at all I do like some elements of pain but im not huge on it and I always thought that it meant I wasnt true. But all that matters really is that you are true to your own feelings and then find a relationship that fits that rather than try to be something that doesnt sit right.

I agree submyt however we do label things, it makes us feel comfy thats why I was asking about specific individual feelings about what we choose to call ourselves. No one can tell us what we are we just pick the word that fits closest and then hopefully change the meaning of the label rather than constantly trying to become the definition. Not much in life is rigid and it changes from person to person day to day etc However I am really interested in looking at peoples self awareness. Its something that personally I have been thinking about a lot recently and I love reading other peoples perspectives on a human personal level not as comparison more of of sheer curisoity and i guess voyerism. I love reading the boards for peoples ideas on various things and I love how one question can illicit so many differant responses.

For me I was hoping to get past some of the facade of other posts, I tried not to frame it in terms of an advice thread so that rather than getting value judgements I simply got personal opinion that means something to the individual, something we dont often seem to get or allow ourselves to do on these boards. I know that I find myself sitting on the fence and being diplomatic in posts this thread doesnt require dipolomacy its about experiance.

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 14

RE: A Question of labels. - 4/3/2008 5:03:07 PM

Arrrchibald

Posts: 350
Joined: 1/3/2008
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I consider myself only what I'm doing at the moment I'm doing it.

While dominating someone, I'm a dom.

Right now though, I'm someone writing on a thread and eating some cinnamon raisin bread.

Correction: I'm dominating some cinnamon raisin bread.

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Post #: 15

RE: A Question of labels. - 4/3/2008 5:11:10 PM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

For me I was hoping to get past some of the facade of other posts, I tried not to frame it in terms of an advice thread so that rather than getting value judgements I simply got personal opinion that means something to the individual, something we dont often seem to get or allow ourselves to do on these boards. I know that I find myself sitting on the fence and being diplomatic in posts this thread doesnt require dipolomacy its about experiance.

You did it! So far, your thread has attracted a few 'different' responses from the usual fare on these boards (slaves must be like this, subs must be like that, men are naturally dominant, women are naturally doormats, babble babble babble) and I like what you wrote. I suppose labels are handy, because they help us to define ourselves, but they're quite limitating, and they're certainly not set in stones. I'm more submissive than anything else, but within the pool of submissives I know, there's a whole rainbow trout of different kinds of personalities... In the end, it's what's inside of us (no snickering at the back, over there) that makes us - we make what we are.

No two people are the same. Babble, babble, babble.

PS: as for the masochist thing... I know exactly what you mean. Many people equate submission and masochism... and it's so off the mark... I'm not into pain for the sake of it; pain has to make sense, for example, when it's applied with a riding crop on my bum

.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 4/3/2008 5:12:47 PM >

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RE: A Question of labels. - 4/3/2008 5:19:58 PM

Leatherist

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I'm too busy enjoying breathing to worry too much about silly things like this.

No one lives forever-enjoy it while you can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkbdP7sq0w8&feature=user

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RE: A Question of labels. - 4/3/2008 5:32:37 PM

kallisto

Posts: 1185
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I'm too busy enjoying breathing to worry too much about silly things like this.

No one lives forever-enjoy it while you can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkbdP7sq0w8&feature=user

I couldn't agree more. Thanks for the link

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RE: A Question of labels. - 4/3/2008 5:42:51 PM

RavenMuse

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Joined: 1/23/2006
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When I was first introduced to the lifestyle it was by a lovely young lady who spotted characteristics in Me that she recognised but which I, at that time didn't have the context for. she was an experienced TPE slave and My first 'lable' was Master. The teen that I was then, I guess in comparison with some I see in the lifestyle did get much right... but compaired to who I am today He falls rather short of what I expect of someone taking on that level of responcibility. In short, at 15 I simply wasn't mature enough, regardless of any natural predisposition to Dominance.

Since then I have experienced many 'levels' of the Dynamic from one-off play partners (Where I have been a Top), regular submissive (Where I was their Dom) and M/s relationships where I have been, as feels 'normal' and natural to Me, Master.

Top, Dom, Master isn't inherently a progression, none is intrinsicaly 'better' than another, it is contextual... for a bottom... a Top is 'better'.... for a sub.... a Dom is 'better'.... for a slave.... a Master is 'better.

For Me... I get little out of simply Topping and rarely indulge. Being Dom to a sub, where there is enough Dynamic to be interesting is enjoyable... but that first young lady was right in her perceptions, I am happiest, most suited to and fullfilled by being Master to a slave I Own.

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And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

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RE: A Question of labels. - 4/3/2008 5:43:17 PM

Poetryinpain

Posts: 341
Joined: 3/20/2008
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I haven't the slightest idea what I am. I've been told that I shouldn't even be here because I'm not sure. I think I'm submissive - I prefer that the man take charge in a scene. But I don't want to give over total control of my life - I've done a pretty good job of that by myself. [smile] But there are areas where I could use some advice and imposed accountability. And then there are areas where I may have more knowledge and skill than he; I'm not giving him authority in those areas.

I guess I'm just a kinky masochist who wants a man to create playtime with.

pip, neither fish nor fowl

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(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 20

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