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RE: "THE Internet could soon be made obsolete." - 4/6/2008 7:00:32 PM

Sanity

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Perhaps the worst nightmare the future could hold is the possibility of immortality. Nothing would be new after so long, life would be nothing but an endless drab grey prison...

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ORIGINAL: Leatherist

There is a place in myself where I could see mind in a steel body. Analytical......long lasting, tireless.....powerful.

But could passion live in such a body? Would the transition destroy the soul? Only time will tell.

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RE: "THE Internet could soon be made obsolete." - 4/6/2008 7:02:49 PM

Leatherist

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But imagine being immortal enough to reach the stars-and incarnate in a new body on arrival. To live long enough to form worlds..........Boredom comes only from lack of ability to keep busy-and expecting others to entertain you.

Only boring people are ever really bored.

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RE: "THE Internet could soon be made obsolete." - 4/6/2008 7:08:56 PM

Estring

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With this technology you will be sitting in a chair hooked up for even more hours than you are now. You won't be going anywhere.

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RE: "THE Internet could soon be made obsolete." - 4/6/2008 7:09:45 PM

BOUNTYHUNTER

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If you believe in reincarnation there is immortality,you just keep coming back until you get it right,Think about this ,would you want to come back with a big as asteroid bearing down on this bright spot in the universe,Not for me let me go sit by a flowing river while my slave girls dance and sing all day not to mention the fishing is good in my little piece of heaven....

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RE: "THE Internet could soon be made obsolete." - 4/6/2008 7:12:35 PM

Leatherist

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I'm not talking about spiritual stuff having to do with karma.

It's about passing on your personality and experiences intact.

If you get to the point that you can extract or copy that-you can also program it back into a cloned shell..I know it sounds really sci fi-but so was going to the moon when Jules Verne wrote about it.

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RE: "THE Internet could soon be made obsolete." - 4/6/2008 7:14:58 PM

BOUNTYHUNTER

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A brain in a metal shell ,Seems like I saw a movie along that lines before,I can't be cloned the world can stand only one of me at a time... Hopefully my personality and benevolence has been passed on to my children,I have two wonderful educated daughters that are making a difference in this ol' world..

< Message edited by BOUNTYHUNTER -- 4/6/2008 7:16:50 PM >

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RE: "THE Internet could soon be made obsolete." - 4/6/2008 7:19:31 PM

servantforuse

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To Gemini1766, Are you sure it was the military ? I thought Al Gore invented the internet..

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RE: "THE Internet could soon be made obsolete." - 4/6/2008 7:23:26 PM

dcnovice

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quote:

I thought Al Gore invented the internet..

From "Going After Gore" (Vanity Fair, October 2007):

On March 9, 1999, CNN's Wolf Blitzer conducted an interview with Gore shortly before he officially announced his candidacy. In answer to a question about why Democrats should support him, Gore spoke about his record. "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative"—politico-speak for leadership—"in creating the Internet," he said, before going on to describe other accomplishments. It was true. In the 1970s, the Internet was a limited tool used by the Pentagon and universities for research. As a senator in the 80s, Gore sponsored two bills that turned this government program into an "information superhighway," a term Gore popularized, and made it accessible to all. Vinton Cerf, often called the father of the Internet, has claimed that the Internet would not be where it was without Gore's leadership on the issue. Even former Republican House speaker Newt Gingrich has said that "Gore is the person who, in the Congress, most systematically worked to make sure that we got to an Internet."

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/10/gore200710

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 4/6/2008 7:25:33 PM >

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RE: "THE Internet could soon be made obsolete." - 4/6/2008 8:05:19 PM

QuietlySeeking

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I read an article 15 years ago that talked about a university who was upgrading the entire campus backbone to fiber optics. At that time, each student was issued a $500-$600 fiber network card that would handle 10Mbps Ethernet. Those same fiber cables should still be used today (although the cards would probably be replaced with 100Mbps or 1000Mbps cards)...and should be handling 4Gbps FiberChannel connections. It's not new technology.

The fiber connection just hasn't trickled down to your house yet, precisely because it is too expensive (from the phone/cable/internet provider) perspective to provide you with THAT much bandwidth when fiber "cable" is still more than $1.00 per foot. Copper is still the cheapest, simply because it has already been installed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

You have a point, but I believe you're missing the bigger picture.

Replace everything in the computer and you've replaced the computer. That's the idea, replacing the Internet with a system so much faster that it makes the old Internet completely obsolete. Technology is advancing so fast all around us that the things we see as the same are actually new, nothing like what they gradually replace.

And it's all taken for granted very often, as well. Isn't it.

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RE: "THE Internet could soon be made obsolete." - 4/6/2008 8:15:36 PM

faerytattoodgirl

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quote:

The fiber connection just hasn't trickled down to your house yet, precisely because it is too expensive (from the phone/cable/internet provider) perspective to provide you with THAT much bandwidth when fiber "cable" is still more than $1.00 per foot. Copper is still the cheapest, simply because it has already been installed.

they're on fiber now...the speeds are cap'd at 10mb and 75k upload. they do this so the lines dont get slow and they can charge more $$$$ for faster speed or higher transfer limits (currently vip = 95gb limit transfer per month).

if this changed....everybody and their kids would be downloading movies and games and porn 24-7/365. the house hold clientel has to be controlled.

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RE: "THE Internet could soon be made obsolete." - 4/7/2008 6:04:53 AM

QuietlySeeking

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quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

quote:

The fiber connection just hasn't trickled down to your house yet, precisely because it is too expensive (from the phone/cable/internet provider) perspective to provide you with THAT much bandwidth when fiber "cable" is still more than $1.00 per foot. Copper is still the cheapest, simply because it has already been installed.

they're on fiber now...the speeds are cap'd at 10mb and 75k upload. they do this so the lines dont get slow and they can charge more $$$$ for faster speed or higher transfer limits (currently vip = 95gb limit transfer per month).

if this changed....everybody and their kids would be downloading movies and games and porn 24-7/365. the house hold clientel has to be controlled.

Fiber bandwith is limited only by the speed of light. The same fiber that ran 10Mbps Ethernet many years ago is now running 4Gbps Fiber Channel (the only difference are the connections on the ends). The "bandwidth" problem is only when you switch from the fiber backbone back to the copper backbone.

I live in a suburban area of Atlanta,GA and I can tell you that fiber doesn't run to the phone box on the side of my house. I have a copper link to the Central Office which then has either copper or fiber to the Main Office which has fiber to the Phone Hub.

The "last mile" (between my house and the Central Office) is the "most expensive to run". Right now, there is no digital-to-analog converter, no digital phone system, no fiber optic phones, nothing other than a plastic box with a few minor copper connections in it to provide service. At least one or two of those things would be required for fiber connectivity.

Even the business T-3 that I'd looked into was routed over....you guessed it: copper.

I lived in Colorado Springs a few years back. Our local telephone company said that they would install fiber to everyone's house (in our subdivision) on three conditions: 1. 75% of the subdivision would agree; 2. everyone would pay the first $100 to defray the costs; 3. everyone would agree to "subscribe" to their Internet Service (10Mbps up/1Mpbs down) for 3 years at $49.95 per month. Very few of my neighbors were willing to pay and subscribe. C'est la vie!

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RE: "THE Internet could soon be made obsolete." - 4/7/2008 6:13:18 AM

faerytattoodgirl

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ya i was speaking only for here...and the whole thing is changed..no copper what so ever. i spoke to a tech who was working on it...and he gave me the spec's.
he was outside of my house cause there's a box right there. rogers is no cheapo company here...

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RE: "THE Internet could soon be made obsolete." - 4/7/2008 6:29:26 AM

jazzyblues

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That would be like Robert Hienlien Book. Where bordom is the biggest threat

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RE: "THE Internet could soon be made obsolete." - 4/7/2008 7:20:13 AM

TheGorenSociety

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As long as you have commercial incentives in providing infrastructure you will have fragmented networks and no where near the capacity that current networks are capable of. Having worked in setting up all kinds of networks for the last 20 years in the commercial sector. Before that, I set up networks for several government entities. The only thing keeping fiber from being terminated at the home is the cost to put it in the ground and connecting it.All switch facilities are digital and have been for over two decades. Fiber connected, they only need to be upgraded to handle higher bandwidth. I just supervised a upgrade of a local cable company and as well as another cable company's back bone. Here in Central Florida and they still are using copper for their trunk lines. Most of there interconnect fiber is only used to their main network circuits due to cost and tariff to the county government and cities.I was part of the first star five fiber networks that AT&Twas testing in the late 70's for deployment.They chose not deploy it due to costs of replacing copper. Today almost all of the lines in-the ground is fiber. In fact most underground utilities regularly place additional capacity when they lay in new lines they normally do not pull old fiber or copper, unless it is a have to case due to labor costs. the problem is that there has never been a single over all plan to deploy it is all deployed in a hodge podge manner.When you have more and more players cutting each others rates it makes it extremely difficult to create a streamlined free flowing network. I have laid down several fiber trunks only to come back 6 months later to the same place and add more because the first company refused to play with the new player, the new player chose to have their own dedicated trunk.Then only to have both players go under or reduce their bandwidth offers as a result. Our overall infrastructure here in the States suffers from this ill conceived deployment.A few cities who have taken over the ownership of their fiber and give access to the communications players enjoy freeing up their bottle neck networks. As for the article, it only refers to additional fiber capabilities as a dedicated high end network nothing new there. This is how most broadband networks get their start. In the end they are just connected to the backbone and create more capacity. I agree with most of the responses here.To say it will replace the net as we know, not likely, if anything it will sit on top of the current net topography and enhance capabilities. Broadband upgrades will only come with sustained funding in replacing old out dated switch gear, old analog routers, old copper fragmented net works, that still exist in the network.If someone had a few billion to play with I know of where it could make good use and increase capacity tenfold.

< Message edited by TheGorenSociety -- 4/7/2008 7:36:35 AM >

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RE: "THE Internet could soon be made obsolete." - 4/7/2008 11:32:34 AM

Gemini1766

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quote:

ORIGINAL: QuietlySeeking

Fiber bandwith is limited only by the speed of light.

Actually, you're incorrect in that statement. Fiber only runs at the speed of light, because it is light being pulsed through the fibers, specific wavelenghts of laser light to be precise. What limits it are a few things, one being the wavelenght used, just like going from the original infrared based CD and DVD ROM devices to the new "Blue" wavelenghts which allow greater data to be carried.

The entire backbone of the internet consists of multiple parallel OC-192s (and higher... I used to work on the backbone years ago, and OC-192 was the top end, now it is up to OC-768) and such interconnecting between all major nodes. From those nodes you break out into the local stations and from there down to businesses and houses.

What slows things down are physical connectors as you move from one system to another, such as from the backbone to a router system that is used to break it out to say the cable company you use, or your telephone company. Good old Signal to Noise ratios and what not. Then you have equipment issues. If you buy a cheap router and network card, you're going to have trouble even if you have a top line high speed link tied directly into the back of your system.

The final thing that dictates the actual speed of data are the routers that take the individual signals and turn them into aggregates before sending them into the great wide web. What was top of the line and could keep up with a OC-192 is not going to do so well trying to keep up with an OC-768.

And copper line are just fine for most people's needs. Most everyone who is using cable for their internet service is running using coaxial and that is copper.

some fun sites:
Optical Carrier Levels (OCx)
T1, T3, OC3, OC12, OC48 and OC192 Research Information
Who owns the Internet? (Check out the PDF map)

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RE: "THE Internet could soon be made obsolete." - 4/7/2008 11:51:13 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitchGoddessD
Richard Branson, CEO of Virgin, is looking for people to go to Mars and live there. Just a thought. Of course it is a one-way flight. LOL

That was an April Fools joke.
http://www.google.com/virgle/index.html

BTW CERN, as usual, is full of it. No one is going to build out an entirely new network that requires dumping all the investment in existing hardware.

What is happening and will continue to happen is the hardware of the existing internet will be improved incrementally which will result in steadily advancing performance overall.

Although realistically the next major step for most home users is the step from traditional broadband (cable or DSL) to a T1 line. And there is really very little impetus for the move as most users will not notice much of an improvement going from DOCSIS or DSL speeds to a full T1.

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RE: "THE Internet could soon be made obsolete." - 4/7/2008 12:08:17 PM

MusicalBoredom

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Agree about the fiber speed. People generally don't realize that the speed of electricity is virtually the speed of light. They also generally see the comparison of copper to fiber as being digital vs analog. The advantage to fiber is that a lot of individual circuits can be crammed in a small amount of space compared to copper. With copper, high speed digital turns each wire into a small radio station and it takes a lot of shielding to keep the signals from bleeding.

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RE: "THE Internet could soon be made obsolete." - 4/7/2008 1:34:18 PM

QuietlySeeking

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Bad news. The only thing many cable broadband users will get from "upgrading to a T-1" is faster upload speeds. T-1 is only about 1.54 Mbps, while cable can run upwards of 4.5Mpbs sustained with peaks in the 10-15 Mbps range.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Although realistically the next major step for most home users is the step from traditional broadband (cable or DSL) to a T1 line. And there is really very little impetus for the move as most users will not notice much of an improvement going from DOCSIS or DSL speeds to a full T1.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gemini1761

quote:

ORIGINAL: QuietlySeeking
Fiber bandwith is limited only by the speed of light.

Actually, you're incorrect in that statement. Fiber only runs at the speed of light, because it is light being pulsed through the fibers, specific wavelenghts of laser light to be precise. What limits it are a few things, one being the wavelenght used, just like going from the original infrared based CD and DVD ROM devices to the new "Blue" wavelenghts which allow greater data to be carried.

The imprecision of that statement notwithstanding, the premise of the entire entry is still valid. The "last mile" run is the most expensive. Once fiber is in place, it can be upgraded from technology to technology without replacing it. And finally, the majority of the "bandwidth problem" is when switching between backbones. It doesn't matter if the Internet runs on parallel OC-192s if I only have a 14kbps modem at my house; hence a change from one backbone to another introduces the limitation, not the fiber itself.

To be precise: The equipment (switches, hubs, routers, modems, network cards, etc.) that interconnects each segment of the network is more likely the cause of any bandwidth limitations rather than the transmission medium itself (fiber).

< Message edited by QuietlySeeking -- 4/7/2008 1:50:09 PM >

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