Subspace (Full Version)

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Windygal -> Subspace (4/6/2008 7:58:21 PM)

I know this would probably vary from one sub to anoher, but how do I acually get my sub to the subspace level? So far the play sessions are not extemely long, like an hour or so, is time a factor? It must have to do with the level of enjoyment he is having, anyone have an idea? thanks




LadyPact -> RE: Subspace (4/6/2008 8:04:16 PM)

No offense, but if taking one to subspace is your goal, it shouldn't be taking an hour.  That, to Me, seems more a time frame for poising them on the verge of space, before their eventual destination.




MistressVnus -> RE: Subspace (4/6/2008 9:01:40 PM)

quote:

is time a factor? It must have to do with the level of enjoyment he is having, anyone have an idea? thanks


Subspace is a product of certain chemicals being released into the bloodstream at increased levels.  Mainly, phermones and endorphines, and adrenalines.  Phermones are hormones triggered by sexual excitement, endorphones are triggered by the bodies response to trauma (impact play or pain) as they are the bodies natural "morphine." And, of  course, adrenalines are  triggered by, anxiety and excitement.
So, to bring someone to this level you must find their "buttons."  What excites them, scares, them, and what levels of pain or impact (ie, flogging, spanking...for beginners) they can tolerate.  It is difficult to say what those buttons are for an individual without knowing them.  Or, what level of intensity that individual might require.  That is your job.  Also, I would suggest finding someone to "show" you how they take their sub to subspace and what it looks like once they have reached it.   Also,  how to provide aftercare for your sub once they are in subspace and activities cease.  Not to mention symptoms of endorphine overload...(mild shocklike sypmtoms) and how to care for that, as well.
Signs that someone as entered subspace include, lethargy, glassy eyes.  The "faraway eyes" look.  And a decreased capacity for quick mental processing.  Sometimes chills, shivering, and a chattering of the teeth.
A warm blanket and lots of cuddling are usually in order for aftercare.  These chemicals usually leave the body within around 15-20 mins.  However, if someone has been taken very deep, it can last longer.  Many like to stay relaxed and nap afterwards to prolong the state.  Other, become charged up after endorhines leave and phermones and adrenalines are still present.  Each are different.




darchChylde -> RE: Subspace (4/6/2008 10:03:07 PM)

Well for my own experience, in the past i had many heavy play scenes and my mind never left the room.  i had actually considered myself 'immune' to the phenomenon of sub-space.  The first time i went with Ma'am to a play party, i kneeled at Her feet while She sat on a table talking with friends.  She was absentmindedly running Her fingers through my hair, scratching my neck and scalp and i suddenly dropped.  i likened it to the one time i had been knocked out, but i was disoriented for an entire day after; more clumsy then usual, startled by sudden sounds and motion, and easily distracted by shinies and colors.  i had a very stressful day, made even more so by my trying to suppress my fears.  Her calming touch released so much stress and tension within me, that i had gone went where no woman has ever sent me before.

i just wanted to share this to show that you never can tell what is going to send someone.




IvyMorgan -> RE: Subspace (4/6/2008 10:40:28 PM)

I only ever drop when I feel completely safe.

So I was more aware of our surroundings than my partner was at the club we played in.

That said, I've noticed two different sorts of drop, there's the "i'm safe and going to float off to happy" drop and the "system overload" drop.  The latter is basically a case of, okay, you've pushed me too far now, so I'm going to shut down, or I'm overstimulated, and so I shut down.  It's a little strange, and no where near as fun as the first one.  This tends to happen when He's done with the scene, and I don't *have* to be aware and protect me anymore.  Or when they did needles.  The first time He played with blades.  The time we played in the club and I knew everything that was going on around us.  The saran wrap incident... Okay, this type happens a lot.

I get different sorts of drops with different people, and sometimes/most times, I don't drop at all.  The first time I had a happy-floaty-drop, I wound up sort of scared that I was completely not in control.  The friend who'd dropped me was nice enough to bring me back again, and I've since gotten over the fear and now like drifting on his couch/floor, it makes him giggle too, so we both win.

I am getting to a point.  Have you talked to your sub, there might be a reason (i.e. fear) why they aren't dropping.  If you're adamant to hold on, even 3 hours on a torture wall won't send you under.




darchChylde -> RE: Subspace (4/6/2008 10:45:32 PM)

i'll have to agree with IvyMorgan; it could very well be that your submissive is (consciously or no) simply unable to let go of that last wall of protection, that last bastion of self-control.  That was not an easy realization to make myself, and i still don't know if i'll ever be able to fully let myself go in a scene.




MaamJay -> RE: Subspace (4/7/2008 1:33:24 AM)

I agree with what has been said. The most important ingredient in a journey to subspace is a deep trust in the One who is going to take you there ... and that they know how to bring you back safely! The sub has to be mentally ready to allow it to happen.

OK so let's assume for now that the sub is dying to go to space with You. Yet they're still not getting there. What's wrong? Well, the next ingredient is the type of stimulation. Different things work for different subs, as has been shown here. Darch got there through gentle stimulation ... and it's significant that it came at the end of a stressful day. Obviously he'd already built up quite a high level of stress hormones, all it took was the gentle stimulation to distract his conscious brain barrier ... and off he went. Some people have those sorts of after-effects, others don't (see sub drop later). It may have been that his Mistress was rather surprised to find him "gone" and perhaps brought him back a little suddenly (or it could have been the noise of the party), rather than slowly and gently (I mean that as no criticism, it would be very understandable in the circumstances). Another sub I know frequently drifted off into space just kneeling at the feet of his Mistress brushing Her lovely long hair.

In My experience though, pain is a more "fail safe" approach to subspace than pleasure ... and that's purely because being subjected to pain causes the release of the hormones that take you there, adrenalin and then the endorphins. Takes a LOT of pleasure on its own to get to the endorphins! Makes sense when you think that the body is wired to be far more responsive to danger (pain) than to something that is not harmful (pleasure). However, you also can't just whack people a few times and expect them to be in space. Generally, sudden intense pain doesn't induce space and is a way of avoiding it or pulling people back from it. Which is why, unless You are an expert with a tool that yields very intense sensations such as the cane, it would not be the implement of choice if subspace is Your goal.

Again, from My experience with a number of subs, from watching many others at parties and from my own experience AS a sub, gradually intensifying the sensation seems to be the most successful. So, if it's spanking or flogging, for example, start light, gently warm up the skin. Combining the pain with pleasure can work well too ... after a few strokes of pain, gently caress the skin with Your hands, wiping away the pain and opening up the pleasure centres. However, there are some subs for whom the change in stimulation is distracting, those pain sluts just want You to go harder and harder without the caresses. Ask Yours! Gradually spank harder or flog harder. Keep the chatter to a minimum, though do gently check on them at intervals (keep Your hand on them to maintain the physical connection), make sure they are OK, not safewording etc. You may notice that they will go through a stage when pain seems intensified and they OW!! a lot. A lot of newbie Dominants get scared and make the mistake of giving up at this point! If You want Your sub to space, don't give up, perhaps caress a little more often, but maintain the overall intensity and slowly build it with a few harder thuds interspersed with lighter ones. Gradually You will probably see them arching up as if they want more blows, the OWs will diminish, they will seem more peaceful. They may well have a giant grin on their face! Some Dominants like to have their subs try to count the spanks ... when their counting goes off, that's a good guide that they are getting spacey. Also their answers will generally become quieter, and take longer for them to form. Once they are getting quite spacey they may be unable to say much more than yes or no, some can only shake their heads. Obviously when they get near that state, DON'T rely entirely on them safewording, You must be the judge of how intense the blows should be and how long You should continue. Once they get to that dreamy state there's not a lot to be gained by going more intense, or even necessarily continuing with stimulation. Time to put down the paddle or flogger, and switch into aftercare mode. If they are bound, loosen them, they may well need to lie down. You will need to assist them, they could easily fall otherwise, so if they are bigger than You, probably best to have them in a safer position to start with. They may apparently lose all knowledge of how to get from one position to another, in which case You will need to instruct, guide and assist as necessary. Cover them with a blanket as they will chill easily, caress, cuddle, talk softly and soothingly. Allow them to float back down. Once they are able, sit them up, give them water, some light food. Continue to enjoy the wonderful connection. Some like to talk about it afterwards, others don't. Some just float right off to sleep!

OK I am NOT saying this is guaranteed to work with all subs as that would be a really dumb presumption! However, it and variations of it, has worked with many subs. Worth trying with Yours! There are many other ways too ... humiliation can work with subs that get off on that, I have seen subs go very quickly into space with activities such as needle play, and some just take themselves off into space when in bondage or mummified with nothing else happening. I offer the above only as a suggestion in the hopes that it will serve as a useful guide.

Timewise ... minimum of 2 hours from go to whoah ... it takes time to connect, to warm up, and to gradually intensify. As LadyPact said, after an hour with most subs You are probably just getting past the OW stage and edging towards the dreamy stage. You might spend another 15 mins or so to make sure they are properly floating, then the next 45 mins in aftercare! And I wouldn't recommend making space Your goal in a daytime session when Your sub has to go to work later that day, drive long distances, or sit an exam! Subspace often leads to a good sleep. Or at very least to a loss of concentration ... I am mindful that its effects are similar to some medications that advise of drowsiness, and avoid driving or operating machinery after taking! Be thoughtful about when this should be the goal of Your play. More time is better.

And a final word about sub drop ... which is an emotional crash which can occur up to 2 days after play. It doesn't always occur, not all subs experience it, even those that do, most don't experience it every time. While aftercare seems to HELP to prevent it, that's not a failsafe either. So a sub who is willing to go to subspace should be aware that there is such a thing as drop, and a strategy should be worked out in advance between sub and Dominant regarding contact and support should it occur. Biochemically it makes sense that if you get that high ie your brain chemistry has altered ... there may be a corresponding low before the brain gets its act together and restores normal balance. It can be a very scary experience if a sub has no idea what is happening to them.

And of course, there are related but not the same experiences of Top space and Top drop ... for another thread!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]




TNstepsout -> RE: Subspace (4/7/2008 5:39:09 AM)

Subspace and what causes it, varies infinately from one person to another. When I have bottomed in the past certain activities, or strong commands or looks, could send me into subspace in an instant. Other activities that might normally create subspace in most other people, wouldn't work on me. Also, some people never seem to experience it at all.

That's why you really need to take the time to experiment with your sub without the pressure of having the goal of subspace. You need to be able to simply enjoy yourself, try a variety of things, and have good communication. Work on the dynamic bewteen the two of you when you play, in feeling and knowing his reactions and getting in synch with him.




DesFIP -> RE: Subspace (4/7/2008 5:47:09 AM)

Not everybody floats from pain. I don't. I go there from sensory deprivation; bondage, gag, blindfold.




Sunnyfey -> RE: Subspace (4/7/2008 5:54:28 AM)

Subspace h god honey there so many kinds..even more then the other posters have listed. Theres the kinds of subspace I hit when i have been emtionally stressed since last time i played...i tend to cry during after when that happens, not from pain mind you but just from the release. And the the release I get from bondage, its a happy sort of "everything is ok as long as im right here" headspace I get when my rope Top sends me swinging in a suspension...i have almost fallen asleep many times during suspension bondage..Top keeps an eye and makes sure I dont though hes good that way. Then the sort of  "im happy and stated" space I get from pain play when i havent been emtionally overloaded. Or the "Im happy as a cat with cream" sort of headspace after a nice long session of energy play. All kinds and some take me minutes to get too and some take me hours to get too. You just never know.




darchChylde -> RE: Subspace (4/7/2008 11:09:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaamJay
Darch got there through gentle stimulation ... and it's significant that it came at the end of a stressful day. Obviously he'd already built up quite a high level of stress hormones, all it took was the gentle stimulation to distract his conscious brain barrier ... and off he went. Some people have those sorts of after-effects, others don't (see sub drop later). It may have been that his Mistress was rather surprised to find him "gone" and perhaps brought him back a little suddenly (or it could have been the noise of the party), rather than slowly and gently (I mean that as no criticism, it would be very understandable in the circumstances).

Maam Jay aka violet[A]


Yes, precisely.  It was Her birthday and i didn't want to stress Her with my fears and ruin it (no telling how well i was doing, She's never said one way or the other; but She's empathic).  From what i've been told, it was so sudden that it was all She could do to stick Her foot out and catch me from falling face first to the concrete.  So She caught me by my throat, lol.  i can't remember being in that particular position, but i do remember someone tugging on my hair to supposedly let Her get Her feet back.

We left shortly after, but Ma'am was as tender and helpful as i let Her be; we were relatively new in our relationship and i was terrified at such a loss of control.  That fear is what i believe made it such a bad trip for me, but it also brought us much closer together.

The experience led me to realize that i had never truly been a submissive before, but a play bottom; and also made me truly desire to be not just submissive, but a submissive... Her submissive.




snugglepet -> RE: Subspace (4/8/2008 12:55:52 AM)

Subspace is a very subjective thing.  Not everyone will reach it, but generally one must feel comfortable and completely safe.  It is something different for each person and is brought on by something different for each person, hence the subjectivity.  Although, one might experience subspace with one activity, it may never happen again with that same activity, and it may never happen again with that level of intensity.  If it is something you strive for, you may never "achieve" it.  Continue to play, have fun and enjoy the experiences you have that may take you to a place that you thought you might never be able to reach.




MistressOfGa -> RE: Subspace (4/8/2008 3:14:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Windygal

I know this would probably vary from one sub to anoher, but how do I acually get my sub to the subspace level? So far the play sessions are not extemely long, like an hour or so, is time a factor? It must have to do with the level of enjoyment he is having, anyone have an idea? thanks

Windygal,
Seems everyone has answered your question, so I have a question for you. After achieving your goal of bringing your sub to the level of subspace, do you know what to do as far as aftercare for him, coming down from subspace? It is just as important, if not more important, to know what to do after the fact. I am going to assume you do, but on the off chance that you don't, you may want to do some research on that.

Good luck hugs!

MoGa




vampchick88 -> RE: Subspace (4/8/2008 6:28:49 PM)

 It does differ. Its all about finding exactly what will put him in subspace. It doesn't need to take an hour and usually time isn't a factor. Its true that not everyone gets there through pain, just find the things that makes him feel submissive and play on those.
I recently got the chance to meet pet, at first I wasn't exactly sure what would get him to subspace. Though a little play and trial I got him there quick and it lasted a good while. Have fun with it, test new experiences and see what works best. I know it was awesome to see pet in subspace for the first time, its something I'll never forget. ~Lorelei




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