RE: "Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law" (Full Version)

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lusciouslips19 -> RE: "Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law" (4/12/2008 6:24:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

Crime rates lower in Florida ? Lol, I wish. That's just not the case. Remember, in Florida, we're used to seeing running gun battles between folks with assault weapons chasing each other on the interstate. True story. What other state can claim that, huh ? Huh ? Not even the cowboys in Texas, I believe. Yup. yup, in Florida, some can't even poke their chads properly. But, if'n ya piss us off, make sure yer locked and loaded. Oh, and make sure we don't "feel threatened" or it's sayonara, baby.


If you look at statistics and compare the early 90's with more current times, violent crimes and murders have dropped.


http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/flcrime.htm




lusciouslips19 -> RE: "Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law" (4/12/2008 6:29:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Guns should be [sm=whisper.gif] , and people should just carry axes [sm=axe.gif]to get the job properly done.


Lizzie Borden took an axe
Gave her mother 40 wacks
when she saw what she had done
gave her father 41![sm=skiprope.gif][sm=lalala.gif]




cjan -> RE: "Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law" (4/12/2008 6:35:18 AM)

True, luscious. But that is the case in NYC, Chicago and most of the nation. Perhaps Chris Rock had a good idea when he said that, in order to reduce violence via guns, bullets should cost $5K apiece. Then , he thinks, folks would think twice before letting go a barrage.

And kitt, I think that is a great idea! Make it more personal, fer chris' sake. I also think that hunters should forego the firearms and go after game with Bowie knives and such. Make it a bit more sporting. I would love to see one go after a grizzly or polar bear, or even a deer, mano a mano. Hell, it could be broadcast on pay-per-view. Think of the $$. Now THAT would be entertainment.




lusciouslips19 -> RE: "Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law" (4/12/2008 6:40:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

True, luscious. But that is the case in NYC, Chicago and most of the nation. Perhaps Chris Rock had a good idea when he said that, in order to reduce violence via guns, bullets should cost $5K apiece. Then , he thinks, folks would think twice before letting go a barrage.

And kitt, I think that is a great idea! Make it more personal, fer chris' sake. I also think that hunters should forego the firearms and go after game with Bowie knives and such. Make it a bit more sporting. I would love to see one go after a grizzly or polar bear, or even a deer, mano a mano. Hell, it could be broadcast on pay-per-view. Think of the $$. Now THAT would be entertainment.



My sir has talked about that Chris Rock line a bunch. Its true. That would be a deterrent. I have been a bleeding heart liberal in the past. The one thing that gets in the way for me of making guns illegal for law abiding citizens is the criminals would be the only ones who have them.




missfrillypants -> RE: "Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law" (4/12/2008 6:59:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd

I am all for the second amendment.. but having been in Law enforement.. this is just idiotic. Like people dont shoot up thier work places enough as is.... I can see a bunch of morons getting pissed of at thier bosses... and just having to go out to the car. Not even drive home and plan. Well fuck me...


So your solution, then, is to not have any law-abiding citizens allowed to have their guns? Yeah, that worked great at Virginia Tech. That was a "gun free" zone too, wasn't it? And the campus shooting in....Indiana was it? Made a huge difference there too, right?




*sighs* i've told people, but they don't want to listen. it doesn't matter in a situation like virginia tech wether the regular members of the populace have guns or not, it's unlikely to happen anyway, and then if it DOES happen, having a bunch of people who are not trained snipers shooting at the person shooting everyone only increases the likelihood that more innocent bystanders will be shot because even more bullets are flying around. if you want there to be less virginia tech or people going apeshit at work or school with guns type situations, then the best thing to do is heal the problems that cause people to do things like that. it doesn't help to make guns illeagal either, because criminals are already criminals and they'll get them illegally anyway, and if they don't have guns, they can always just kill people with other things, like they've been doing since the begining of time. there was a man in my area last year who killed his wife by shoving a porcelain rabbit figurine down her throat. if you took away the figurine, would she still be alive or would giving therapy to the husband and wife or otherwise helping the marital problems of that couple or at least giving the husband something else to do besides fester until he built up a homicidal rage?







TheGorenSociety -> RE: "Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law" (4/12/2008 8:08:07 AM)

I living in Florida, have seen  the side effects of trying to control arms in the hand of criminals. This new law gives back some of the freedoms afforded us in the constitution. Here is the rub having to deal with criminals is never a civil or two way street. A criminal, has the mindset of using what ever he can get his hands on at the time he commits a crime. He will buy ammo, guns,  knives  or the materials for improvised munitions from whomever will supply them. It is called greed. All the laws in the world has never stopped greed. I know having carried my own personal firearm for many years there has situations where just the sight of me carrying was enough to stop something from happening. The government only wants to control weapons in the name of controling crime, yet most of the crimes commited by criminals are done whether they are armed with illegal weapons or legal ones. Fact is more and more criminals get thier choice of arms, from groups of criminals who specialise in manufacturing weapons without serial numbers. Duplicates, they will always find a way to do the crime. Several years ago I got to see first hand of such operations in L.A. and Central  America.They  were complete with the ability to create thier own ammo. It was one of the best set ups I have ever seen, It was camoflaged into the local society and the economy,  no one suspected they were making Mac 10s  or Uzzis.  When I was in  Aghanistan a while back, we saw the Taliban making weapons in these makeshift factories turning them out by hand.They had kids making most of the parts.They were selling them in Pakistan as well as using them for thier own operations.Now most of the manufacturers are in  Pakistan supplying from the other side.Best Regards TGS




Smith117 -> RE: "Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law" (4/12/2008 12:22:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

Crime rates lower in Florida ? Lol, I wish. That's just not the case. Remember, in Florida, we're used to seeing running gun battles between folks with assault weapons chasing each other on the interstate. True story. What other state can claim that, huh ? Huh ? Not even the cowboys in Texas, I believe. Yup. yup, in Florida, some can't even poke their chads properly. But, if'n ya piss us off, make sure yer locked and loaded. Oh, and make sure we don't "feel threatened" or it's sayonara, baby.


You need to read up on your news. We had a "running gun battle" just a few months ago. And Cali had the infamous body-armor/assault rifle bank robbery.




Smith117 -> RE: "Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law" (4/12/2008 12:23:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

True, luscious. But that is the case in NYC, Chicago and most of the nation. Perhaps Chris Rock had a good idea when he said that, in order to reduce violence via guns, bullets should cost $5K apiece. Then , he thinks, folks would think twice before letting go a barrage.


That wouldn't work either because, just like outlawing guns altogether would mean only the outlaws had them, expensive bullets would mean only the theives would have them as the honest, hard-working people couldn't afford them.




Smith117 -> RE: "Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law" (4/12/2008 12:31:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missfrillypants

*sighs* i've told people, but they don't want to listen. it doesn't matter in a situation like virginia tech wether the regular members of the populace have guns or not, it's unlikely to happen anyway, and then if it DOES happen, having a bunch of people who are not trained snipers shooting at the person shooting everyone only increases the likelihood that more innocent bystanders will be shot because even more bullets are flying around. if you want there to be less virginia tech or people going apeshit at work or school with guns type situations, then the best thing to do is heal the problems that cause people to do things like that. it doesn't help to make guns illeagal either, because criminals are already criminals and they'll get them illegally anyway, and if they don't have guns, they can always just kill people with other things, like they've been doing since the begining of time. there was a man in my area last year who killed his wife by shoving a porcelain rabbit figurine down her throat. if you took away the figurine, would she still be alive or would giving therapy to the husband and wife or otherwise helping the marital problems of that couple or at least giving the husband something else to do besides fester until he built up a homicidal rage?


I find nothing but fault with the first....4 lines of this. I like the "healing people" part, but unfortunately society in my opinion is too far gone for that.

As for the guns, when you are licensed to carry, you had to have first gone through a class, which means you at least know which end the bullets come out and can point that end away from innocent people. They tell you numerous times in class that you will not be an expert just from the licensing class (except me, who never misses anyway so long as I'm familiar with the gun I'm using). They emphasize during class that you should never stop practicing because it's not enough to just carry the gun, you have to know how to handle it. You also have to know how to hande it in extreme situations, not just standing up, flat-footed at a firing range.

You don't have to be a "sniper" when you carry a 5-shot revolver on your hip. You just have to be able to send back to the bad guy what he's sending out.

Also, the gun laws are about deterrent. The schools are picked as targets why? Because the cowardly shooter KNOWS that it's a gun free zone. Notice how no one ever goes nuts and tries to shoot up a police station? There's a reason for that. If you put it out there that guns were allowed to be carried by licensed, trained people, and you had no clue how many of a 1000+ strong class was carrying, suddenly your insane little school assault doesn't look so appealing. If just 1 of the students in 1 of those classes was carrying that day, the shooter would have met with a certain 'surprise resistance.' As the shooter himself was not a combat veteran and was also not expecting that kind of resistance, the odds for the innocent people go up remarkably.




cjan -> RE: "Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law" (4/13/2008 7:13:47 AM)

Here's what Carl Hiaasen (a Miami Herald columnist and author) has to say about this law.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/columnists/carl_hiaasen/story/492387.html




lronitulstahp -> RE: "Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law" (4/13/2008 7:40:47 AM)

This guy's writing style seems about as professional as a post on these boards...i should've been a Journalism major.  But he has a point.  i'm just waiting for the first big workplace shooting to start the uproar that gets this law overturned....wonder how many victims there'll be???




missfrillypants -> RE: "Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law" (4/13/2008 2:26:02 PM)

i understand people are taught, and they are able to practice, but most people aren't going to get the same kind of ability to shoot under extreme pressure that snipers, police officers and people in the military are going to have, and they probably aren't going to practice shooting in this kind of condition. firing at a stationary target on a shooting range when you're calm is very different from firing at a person who's shooting at you while trying not to get shot yourself... you're panicked, you're trying to stay covered, there are people screaming and running around and if the shooter has any wit at all, he or she isn't going to be standing still and probably not close up to you, either. in that kind of situation, making a simple but dangerous mistake becomes easy even if you've had gun safety courses and done everything right. even people who are in a field of work where they have to learn how to behave in a shootout don't always make it through them.

as for the "cowardly shooter" arguement, it's based on the wrong logic. the virginia tech shooter chose the school he attended because that was the place where the people were who he interacted with every day and the people who, in his mind, had done him wrong.  schools get shot up the most because the people attending them are immature and overly emotional, with the fatalistic, overdramatic viewpoints us young people often have. high and middle schools get shot up the most because they are really horrible places to be, and i highly doubt there aren't those of you who remember thinking you'd like to do similar things to some of the people who were horrible to you when you were that age. the arguement of a police station isn't the same at all. yes, everyone knows there are guns there, but more importantly, most people who aren't police officers don't spend a lot of time there. even when someone is arrested they most likely aren't going to spend more than a day or so there if there's an attached jail, and so these places aren't as ingrained in us as places of evil filled with evil people we'd dearly like to hurt.


EDIT: to avoid a double post, which is often bad form, when i realized i had more points to make.




Smith117 -> RE: "Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law" (4/13/2008 5:13:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missfrillypants

i understand people are taught, and they are able to practice, but most people aren't going to get the same kind of ability to shoot under extreme pressure that snipers, police officers and people in the military are going to have, and they probably aren't going to practice shooting in this kind of condition. firing at a stationary target on a shooting range when you're calm is very different from firing at a person who's shooting at you while trying not to get shot yourself... you're panicked, you're trying to stay covered, there are people screaming and running around and if the shooter has any wit at all, he or she isn't going to be standing still and probably not close up to you, either. in that kind of situation, making a simple but dangerous mistake becomes easy even if you've had gun safety courses and done everything right. even people who are in a field of work where they have to learn how to behave in a shootout don't always make it through them.

as for the "cowardly shooter" arguement, it's based on the wrong logic. the virginia tech shooter chose the school he attended because that was the place where the people were who he interacted with every day and the people who, in his mind, had done him wrong.  schools get shot up the most because the people attending them are immature and overly emotional, with the fatalistic, overdramatic viewpoints us young people often have. high and middle schools get shot up the most because they are really horrible places to be, and i highly doubt there aren't those of you who remember thinking you'd like to do similar things to some of the people who were horrible to you when you were that age. the arguement of a police station isn't the same at all. yes, everyone knows there are guns there, but more importantly, most people who aren't police officers don't spend a lot of time there. even when someone is arrested they most likely aren't going to spend more than a day or so there if there's an attached jail, and so these places aren't as ingrained in us as places of evil filled with evil people we'd dearly like to hurt.


EDIT: to avoid a double post, which is often bad form, when i realized i had more points to make.



None of this post  serves as a reason why people should not be armed. It only explains that they should be well-trained. Some chances against a crazed shooter is better than no chance.

And don't fool yourself about "the military" as a whole. Unless you're in the infantry or some other combat specific job, you have extremely limited practice with firearms. I was in a desk job and touched a gun exactly 4 times before I was deployed overseas. Once for basic training, for about half an afternoon. Twice at my first base, for qualifying on two different weapons, and once at my last base, for a competition I volunteered for. I've shot more weapons more times on my own, than I ever did with any sort of 'regulated training.'

Not every person in the military is a sniper-quality shooter.




DesFIP -> RE: "Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law" (4/13/2008 7:43:12 PM)

Well their goes "Take your kids to work" day.




Real_Trouble -> RE: "Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law" (4/13/2008 7:47:11 PM)

And yet, this is still a better idea than how they handle hurricane insurance.

Amazing.




Gwynvyd -> RE: "Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law" (4/14/2008 2:17:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

Florida, in case y'all haven't noticed , is a "funny" state. A couple of years ago the legislature passed a law legitimizing shooting someone if the shooter "feels threatened". Think about it. 


Oh my goodness.. they are trying to make us like TX.

Holy shit. Now the whole clan is gonna move here.. I am tellin ya.. Merritt Is. is not big enough for all them assholes.

[sm=hair.gif]

and management is never gonna be that nice. LOL

In an answer to some of the other stuff.. I think the whole hand to hand or bow and arrow for hunting stuff is great. I hunt with bow and arrow personaly. WTF do you need an assult riffle to shoot a deer for jack ass? He name isnt Vinny. You will not end up with a Horse head in your bed if you bag him. Sheesh.

Every one being armed is not really the answer.. great.. we have a whole bunch of jack asses cross firing and killing each other trying to shoot one guy. Niiiiice. Collaterial Damage. I dont care what they say.. Friendly fire *isnt*

Crime rates might have gone down.. but stupidity hasnt.. and law enforcement budgets have gone down.. I just think the drug runners have either evaded.. or gotten smarter. We are the largest drug running area. Plain and simple.

Gwyn,
Ok.. so who wants to buy me a Mossburg Cruiser for my B-day? It is comming up in Dec. *bright smile*

Gwyn




kdsub -> RE: "Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law" (4/14/2008 2:25:32 PM)

I was watching a public television special today about early S. Carolina. One law was a requirement that all men MUST carry a weapon to church on Sundays. Just in case there was a slave revolt.

So things have gotten a little better.

Butch




Vendaval -> RE: "Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law" (4/15/2008 12:08:27 AM)

You may be on to something here, the next season of
"American Gladiator" will soon be on TV.  [sm=club.gif]


quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

And kitt, I think that is a great idea! Make it more personal, fer chris' sake. I also think that hunters should forego the firearms and go after game with Bowie knives and such. Make it a bit more sporting. I would love to see one go after a grizzly or polar bear, or even a deer, mano a mano. Hell, it could be broadcast on pay-per-view. Think of the $$. Now THAT would be entertainment.





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