Not age, but gender (Full Version)

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LadyPact -> Not age, but gender (4/10/2008 10:45:48 AM)

For some time now, the age debate has been going on at the Ask a Master board.  Just recently, the same debate was brought over to the Mistress board as well.  Now, to Me, this makes perfect sense.  If we are going to ask such questions as "Can a 21 year old be a Master?", we should be asking the parallel of "Can a 21 year old be a Mistress?".  It shouldn't change because the subject in question is a different gender.

That got Me thinking about something that was written on another thread:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag


Someone calling themselves a submissive or dominant is rarely challenged.
Someone calling themselves a Mistress is not often questioned, unless they ask for tribute.
Someone calling themselves a Master is often questioned or challenged, as are what qualifies them as such or who has the "right" to call themselves such.



It's My personal opinion that this shouldn't be the case.  I happen to think that the same standard should apply, whether that Dominant be male or female.  If we challenge one gender, we should challenge the other. 

So, I wanted to ask the opinions of others.  Do we challenge Mistresses less often than Masters?  Why or why not?  Do we encourage sexism by doing so?  Is it harder for a male to be accepted as a Dominant than a female?  What are your thoughts?



Floggings4You -> RE: Not age, but gender (4/10/2008 10:50:35 AM)

Do that many young (under 25) women present themselves as Mistresses?  I don't look at profiles of Dominant women very often, but--in real life--I haven't encountered any young women presenting Themselves thus.  And I've known more than a few Dommes...I'm married to One, in fact.



BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: Not age, but gender (4/10/2008 10:53:18 AM)

IN the past I use to see this often in my mail while Diane only received the sweet mail,Women just don't trust men so therefore the challenge to prove ones self...I believe in taking someone on face value unless they have been proven to be a fraud,,,What say all of you...bounty



Madame4a -> RE: Not age, but gender (4/10/2008 10:53:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Floggings4You

Do that many young (under 25) women present themselves as Mistresses?  I don't look at profiles of Dominant women very often, but--in real life--I haven't encountered any young women presenting Themselves thus.  And I've known more than a few Dommes...I'm married to One, in fact.


This is a good point, I don't often see them in RL either.. here yes.. but not out and about. .. maybe they hide?

I agree with Lady Pact, the same standard should apply regardless of gender... and personally, in my mind, I tend to wonder about someone very young using the term 'slave' to describe themselves.. or someone with very little experience.



LadyPact -> RE: Not age, but gender (4/10/2008 10:54:20 AM)

I appreciate the response, but it wasn't the point.

Take the age factor out of it for a moment.  What I'm curious to know is do we have two different standards for male and female dominants?



Lordandmaster -> RE: Not age, but gender (4/10/2008 10:55:41 AM)

I'd state this another way: we tend to take the complaints of submissive women more seriously than the complaints of submissive men.  If we're just talking about doms and dommes or masters and mistresses, I don't think either sex is challenged more or less often than the other.  The challenges may be of a slightly different kind, but I see people giving mistresses unwarranted crap all the time.  Where I really see a difference is in the responses to subs.  A male sub who complains about a mistress has virtually no chance of being taken seriously.  Some female subs aren't taken seriously either, but everyone's first impulse always seems to be "Oh that nasty dom of yours, how could he do that to you, leave him right now!"

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

So, I wanted to ask the opinions of others.  Do we challenge Mistresses less often than Masters?  Why or why not?  Do we encourage sexism by doing so?  Is it harder for a male to be accepted as a Dominant than a female?  What are your thoughts?



Madame4a -> RE: Not age, but gender (4/10/2008 10:56:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BOUNTYHUNTER

IN the past I use to see this often in my mail while Diane only received the sweet mail,Women just don't trust men so therefore the challenge to prove ones self...I believe in taking someone on face value unless they have been proven to be a fraud,,,What say all of you...bounty


From what little time I've been here, I have noted men seem to have a reputation of being whatever.. wannabe, phoney... or just a plain old fraud, top or bottom... deserved or otherwise -- that means you often have to prove yourself first..

that said, women tend to trust women quicker, although I'm sure we shouldn't be that easy...we give each other the benefit of the doubt first, I think

doesn't make it right, but might explain it



colouredin -> RE: Not age, but gender (4/10/2008 10:57:06 AM)

I actually dont agree with the quote, I label myself submissive and its constantly challanges, not just by tolls online but real people until I submit to them (if I do) I am too opinionated, too feisty, too whatever.

For some reason I dont equate Mistress and Master, dunno why, I tend to only refer to Dom as male (i may say Domme but it sounds silly in real life) There is a differance in labels you see, for a male Dom they refer to themselves often (not always) as Sir, Master is a whole new catagory yet women who refer to themselves as Domme often also have their sub's refer to them as Misstress, so there doesnt seem to be teh seperate terms differantiating it.



Dnomyar -> RE: Not age, but gender (4/10/2008 11:06:11 AM)

This one is hard for me to answer. I don't have the problem that some on here seem to have. I think that the sub/slaves expatations are different for each. I think that some women expect a Dom to be a Prince Charming. Then reality sets in. A Domme can be more or less herself.



Leatherist -> RE: Not age, but gender (4/10/2008 11:07:11 AM)

It's driven by archaic stereotypes of the male as head of household and provider. Men claiming the title are held up to this standard.

When you look at Female tops,they are in such short supply that no male sub would dare to offend one-for fear of never getting to play. Femsubs are quite the opposite, and they have to do is show the ability to fog up the mirror to get laid.

It's really quite silly-but that is the reality.



Stephann -> RE: Not age, but gender (4/10/2008 11:07:40 AM)

It's a combination of gender ration, and social mechanics.

Men are far more likely to be aggressively seeking sexual (and sexually predatory) relationships than women are.  Men who have trouble finding sexual relationships in the vanilla world are more likely to venture into 'alternative' relationships seeking sex.  To boot, male dominants are in competition with each other for choice female submissives.  Female dominants, on the other hand, are vastly outnumbered by male submissives.  This competition means male submissives are less likely to question a potential female dominant's credentials, should she be willing to interact with him.  The old standard of women being sexual gatekeepers, ultimately, ensures that those gatekeepers aren't questioned lest they be insulted, pack up their toys, and go home.

Stephan



Madame4a -> RE: Not age, but gender (4/10/2008 11:09:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

When you look at Female tops,they are in such short supply that no male sub would dare to offend one-for fear of never getting to play.


you better let them know that.. 'cause there's a lot of offending going on... just read a few rants on the Ask Mistress board...



RavenMuse -> RE: Not age, but gender (4/10/2008 11:12:09 AM)

I really don't care what someone calls themself, unless they expect Me to see them that way. Someone can wander up and refer to themself as a Dom, a Domme or a telly tubby and it doesn't matter to Me... if however they are asking My OPINION then wether *I* view them in that matter starts to count, and yes, I maybe challenge the notion if their actions seem to contradict My definition of what that entails..... but the only thing at stake is My opinion of them.... and if I am not part of their life then why should that much matter?

Maybe there is a discrepency because of the way the different groups relate to one another in the individual forums causing more challenges for a 'Dom' than for a Dommes or either gender of sub/slave.

From personal experience, the group I find Myself most likely to question the label they use is the sub male... But then I know quite a number of Mistresses and most are quite fed up with the me me me me attitude of so many sub males that it comes up as a conversation topic relitivly frequently.



Leatherist -> RE: Not age, but gender (4/10/2008 11:13:55 AM)

Let me rephrase-no intelligent and practical male sub would dare to offend one.[:D]



BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: Not age, but gender (4/10/2008 11:16:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Madame4a

quote:

ORIGINAL: BOUNTY HUNTER

IN the past I use to see this often in my mail while Diane only received the sweet mail,Women just don't trust men so therefore the challenge to prove ones self...I believe in taking someone on face value unless they have been pr oven to be a fraud,,,What say all of you...bounty


From what little time I've been here, I have noted men seem to have a reputation of being whatever.. wannabe, phoney... or just a plain old fraud, top or bottom... deserved or otherwise -- that means you often have to prove yourself first..

that said, women tend to trust women quicker, although I'm sure we shouldn't be that easy...we give each other the benefit of the doubt first, I think

doesn't make it right, but might explain it


I tend to agree with most of what you have said,women trust their own gender,Many female Dominants are harsh user of women as well or so this is what we hear...WE as a couple receive mail from subs/slave that want a woman in the house where she is Domme or not,makes them feel safer.... 



LadyLynx -> RE: Not age, but gender (4/10/2008 11:25:06 AM)

I wonder if part of it has to do with the perception the women mature faster then men?   And plus male subs well, alot of them just seem to want to get their rocks off, regardless of age. (not all of them, I know.) Now me personally, anyone in the lifestyle at 21 doesn't interest me. exept as friends. and that is because I work with mostly teenagers and early 20 yrs olds. it drives me crazy now to have them give me that "your a crazy older person look" I am sure the same look I gave when I was their age. lol.



faerytattoodgirl -> RE: Not age, but gender (4/10/2008 11:28:59 AM)

quote:

Men who have trouble finding sexual relationships in the vanilla world are more likely to venture into 'alternative' relationships seeking sex.


not only men..but people like me who are born differently (intersexed) or say someone who is transgendered.  we have no chance in the vanilla world... but alternate lifestyle there is that 1% chance for happiness.  and in the vanilla world it OFTEN tends to turn out into a VIOLENT relationship.



CreativeDominant -> RE: Not age, but gender (4/10/2008 12:18:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Floggings4You

Do that many young (under 25) women present themselves as Mistresses?  I don't look at profiles of Dominant women very often, but--in real life--I haven't encountered any young women presenting Themselves thus.  And I've known more than a few Dommes...I'm married to One, in fact.


Actually...quite a few do.  Here are 4 of the age of 21 or younger that present themselves as female dominants:
http://www.collarme.com/bdsm/v/627659/rzsi/26245/details.htm
http://www.collarme.com/bdsm/v/627624/rzgx/16296/details.htm
http://www.collarme.com/bdsm/o/0/u/f/v/627624/rzgx/16296/default.htm
http://www.collarme.com/bdsm/v/627594/rzxa/52246/details.htm

And here are 4 of the age of 21 or younger that present themselves as Goddess or Mistress:
http://www.collarme.com/bdsm/v/627577/rzjq/92848/details.htm
http://www.collarme.com/bdsm/v/625794/rzow/52483/details.htm
http://www.collarme.com/bdsm/v/625750/rzos/30888/details.htm
http://www.collarme.com/bdsm/v/622407/rzsj/70836/details.htm

This took only the first 16 profiles I looked at.  As you can see, there are indeed quite a few females 21 or under that classify themselves as dominant, Mistress, and/or Goddess.  And yes, I would challenge an 18 - 21 year old who feels that she is qualified to be a dominant, a Mistress, or a Goddess.  When you look at profiles offered by those such as the above examples and others, is it any wonder that many male dominants that come nowhere close to being that hung up on themselves ask of those who challenge their dominance for little reason other than...many times...the dominant has said something that another (dominant or submissive/male or female) finds offensive or contrary to their views of dominance... "Tell me WHY again I am being challenged?"



CreativeDominant -> RE: Not age, but gender (4/10/2008 12:24:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I appreciate the response, but it wasn't the point.

Take the age factor out of it for a moment.  What I'm curious to know is do we have two different standards for male and female dominants?



I think there is.  How many times have we seen threads in which a male dominant stated that he was a master and, no matter what he said...stupid or profound...he was challenged for calling himself Master, especially if he had no submissive or slave at the moment.  Yet I know for a fact that I have seen posts made by female dominants in which they called themselves a Mistress and no matter what she said...stupid or profound...rarely was she challenged for calling herself a Mistress, owner/dominant/holder of a submissive/slave or not.



Justme696 -> RE: Not age, but gender (4/10/2008 1:13:27 PM)

quote:

So, I wanted to ask the opinions of others.  Do we challenge Mistresses less often than Masters?  Why or why not?  Do we encourage sexism by doing so?  Is it harder for a male to be accepted as a Dominant than a female?  What are your thoughts?


I think in the same thread is said;

"why would one care"

and strict females are scary , they remind us of teachers. We respect them.....from a distance  :P



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